Hard Cards and the Rules of Golf

Yeah ... I didn't realize this either.  It made me curious so I went and looked at the Hard Card for the tournaments I play in, and sure enough, they try and copy the pros on this one:

http://thegolfchannel.bluegolf.com/bluegolf/thegolfchannel14/event/thegolfchannel14322/agenda.htm?agenda=0acda4ed-0171-49e2-ac03-f03d888ab276

Quote:

Originally Posted by Golfingdad

Yeah ... I didn't realize this either.  It made me curious so I went and looked at the Hard Card for the tournaments I play in, and sure enough, they try and copy the pros on this one:

http://thegolfchannel.bluegolf.com/bluegolf/thegolfchannel14/event/thegolfchannel14322/agenda.htm?agenda=0acda4ed-0171-49e2-ac03-f03d888ab276

Why do they have this in their HC:

Golf Ball/Rule 15-1:  A player must hole out with the ball played from the teeing ground, unless the ball is lost or out of bounds, or if the player substitutes another ball if permitted under rule 15-2.

Are they deliberately modifying Rule 15-1 or is this just an error? And if it is an error why did they see it necessary to repeat just this particular Rule?

How are you seeing a modification?  They are slightly off on their phrasing of the rule,but the intent is clear.  It would be better phrased:  "...  or if the player substitutes another ball as permitted under rule 15-2".  They weren't attempting to quote Rule 15-1 word for word.

I believe that it's emphasized because too many amateurs don't know that they can't change balls when they get to the green.  It's often amazing to me how many theoretically experienced players use a "putting ball" thinking that it's perfectly legal under the rules.

They also often believe that they can change balls anytime that they are allowed to lift their ball.  Such substitution is only allowed under certain rules (5-3, 26-1, 27-1, 28 - I may have missed one but these are the biggies), so the tour wanted to point this one out to the players so that there is no possible reason for the players to be unaware of it.   A player may only substitute a ball under Rules 24-2 and 25-1b if the original ball is not immediately recoverable.  This distinction is often lost on amateur golfers.

How are you seeing a modification?  They are slightly off on their phrasing of the rule,but the intent is clear.  It would be better phrased:  "...  or if the player substitutes another ball as permitted under rule 15-2".  They weren't attempting to quote Rule 15-1 word for word.

I believe that it's emphasized because too many amateurs don't know that they can't change balls when they get to the green.  It's often amazing to me how many theoretically experienced players use a "putting ball" thinking that it's perfectly legal under the rules.

They also often believe that they can change balls anytime that they are allowed to lift their ball.  Such substitution is only allowed under certain rules (5-3, 26-1, 27-1, 28 - I may have missed one but these are the biggies), so the tour wanted to point this one out to the players so that there is no possible reason for the players to be unaware of it.   A player may only substitute a ball under Rules 24-2 and 25-1b if the original ball is not immediately recoverable.  This distinction is often lost on amateur golfers.

Yeah, this is my bet as to why its emphasized as well. BTW ... is it normal to define stones in bunkers as movable obstructions?  I just noticed that ... and I was always under the impression that it was just bad luck of your ball rested near a stone in a bunker.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fourputt

How are you seeing a modification?  They are slightly off on their phrasing of the rule,but the intent is clear.  It would be better phrased:  "...  or if the player substitutes another ball as permitted under rule 15-2".  They weren't attempting to quote Rule 15-1 word for word.

I believe that it's emphasized because too many amateurs don't know that they can't change balls when they get to the green.  It's often amazing to me how many theoretically experienced players use a "putting ball" thinking that it's perfectly legal under the rules.

They also often believe that they can change balls anytime that they are allowed to lift their ball.  Such substitution is only allowed under certain rules (5-3, 26-1, 27-1, 28 - I may have missed one but these are the biggies), so the tour wanted to point this one out to the players so that there is no possible reason for the players to be unaware of it.   A player may only substitute a ball under Rules 24-2 and 25-1b if the original ball is not immediately recoverable.  This distinction is often lost on amateur golfers.

So what if a player substitutes his ball when not permitted? Will that be a breach of CoC? What will be the penalty?

I very much dislike any unnecessary text in LR's, HC's and CoC's. There are Rules and then there are additional limitations, it is not sensible to repeat Rules in those documents just because someone might not know some Rule. Even more I dislike if a Rule is quoted and quoted wrong. How's that for educating players...?

Maybe in Finland everyone knows better.  I don't see any problem with calling attention to it.  There is even a lot of confusion between Rule 15 and the One Ball condition of the competition.  It is a common misconception that the one ball CoC is a standard rule.  Then a player is told no, that it's a special local rule invoked for high level competitions, and they think that means they have the right to change balls any time.  The problem stems from the lack of player education in the US.

Most US golfers are public course, casual players.  They don't see much competition, if any, and what little they know about the rules is usually received from a buddy who doesn't know much more than they do.  As a result there is a lot of misinformation that is passed around, then when a player does join an organization or plays in a competition circuit like the GC Amateur Tour, they are quite unprepared for playing the game correctly.  They are usually considered well informed if they actually know how to correctly drop from a water hazard.  Too much emphasis is placed on swinging the club and not nearly enough on actually learning to play proper golf.  Stressing a particular rule which is so commonly broken seems to me like a good, proactive move on the part of the organizers.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fourputt

Maybe in Finland everyone knows better.  I don't see any problem with calling attention to it.  There is even a lot of confusion between Rule 15 and the One Ball condition of the competition.  It is a common misconception that the one ball CoC is a standard rule.  Then a player is told no, that it's a special local rule invoked for high level competitions, and they think that means they have the right to change balls any time.  The problem stems from the lack of player education in the US.

Most US golfers are public course, casual players.  They don't see much competition, if any, and what little they know about the rules is usually received from a buddy who doesn't know much more than they do.  As a result there is a lot of misinformation that is passed around, then when a player does join an organization or plays in a competition circuit like the GC Amateur Tour, they are quite unprepared for playing the game correctly.  They are usually considered well informed if they actually know how to correctly drop from a water hazard.  Too much emphasis is placed on swinging the club and not nearly enough on actually learning to play proper golf.  Stressing a particular rule which is so commonly broken seems to me like a good, proactive move on the part of the organizers.

Rogolf, it is up to the player to know the Rules and it is up to the Committee to inform the players of any deviations of the Rules. It is NOT the Committee's responsibility to educate players on the Rules. What I have heard and read most of your leisure time golfers think they can drop a ball close to the point where their ball went OB with one penalty stroke. Maybe that should be mentioned in all CoC's as well.

It is very well known that players attending a competition do not bother to read the CoC nor the LR. I cannot see how lengthening the already too long papers would encourage players to read them, as they are not reading them now.

I'm afraid your view does not get any support from me or my colleagues but certainly you are entitled to your own opinion.

P.S. What about the breach of the clause of R15-1 in the HC referred in my earlier post? What would be the penalty for substituting a ball when not allowed? Do not forget there just might be a player knowing the Rules and wondering what should he do facing such a discrepancy between Rules and the HC...

What discrepancy?  There is no discrepancy.  They said that changing a ball is allowed if it is permitted under 15-2, which then refers the player to the applicable rule. Any breach of Rule 15-2 would still be penalized.  How is that modifying the rule?

Most US golfers are public course, casual players.  They don't see much competition, if any, and what little they know about the rules is usually received from a buddy who doesn't know much more than they do.  As a result there is a lot of misinformation that is passed around, then when a player does join an organization or plays in a competition circuit like the GC Amateur Tour, they are quite unprepared for playing the game correctly.  They are usually considered well informed if they actually know how to correctly drop from a water hazard.  Too much emphasis is placed on swinging the club and not nearly enough on actually learning to play proper golf.  Stressing a particular rule which is so commonly broken seems to me like a good, proactive move on the part of the organizers.

This is from the Rules:

15-1. General

A player must hole out with the ball played from the teeing ground, unless the ball is lost or out of bounds or the player substitutes another ball, whether or not substitution is permitted (see Rule 15-2).

And this is from the Hard Card:

Golf Ball/Rule 15-1:  A player must hole out with the ball played from the teeing ground, unless the ball is lost or out of bounds, or if the player substitutes another ball if permitted under rule 15-2.

I'd say there is a discrepancy, a distinct one.

Again, what if a player substituted his ball when not permitted, what will the penalty for breach of HC be, Fourputt? After all, HC forbids the player to substitute his ball if not permitted.

OTOH, why do they not include the whole rules book with hard card...

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fourputt

What discrepancy?  There is no discrepancy.  They said that changing a ball is allowed if it is permitted under 15-2, which then refers the player to the applicable rule. Any breach of Rule 15-2 would still be penalized.  How is that modifying the rule?

This is from the Rules:

15-1. General

A player must hole out with the ball played from the teeing ground, unless the ball is lost or out of bounds or the player substitutes another ball, whether or not substitution is permitted (see Rule 15-2).

And this is from the Hard Card:

Golf Ball/Rule 15-1:  A player must hole out with the ball played from the teeing ground, unless the ball is lost or out of bounds, or if the player substitutes another ball if permitted under rule 15-2.

I'd say there is a discrepancy, a distinct one.

Again, what if a player substituted his ball when not permitted, what will the penalty for breach of HC be, Fourputt? After all, HC forbids the player to substitute his ball if not permitted.

Rogolf, it is up to the player to know the Rules and it is up to the Committee to inform the players of any deviations of the Rules. It is NOT the Committee's responsibility to educate players on the Rules. What I have heard and read most of your leisure time golfers think they can drop a ball close to the point where their ball went OB with one penalty stroke. Maybe that should be mentioned in all CoC's as well. It is very well known that players attending a competition do not bother to read the CoC nor the LR. I cannot see how lengthening the already too long papers would encourage players to read them, as they are not reading them now. I'm afraid your view does not get any support from me or my colleagues but certainly you are entitled to your own opinion. P.S. What about the breach of the clause of R15-1 in the HC referred in my earlier post? What would be the penalty for substituting a ball when not allowed? Do not forget there just might be a player knowing the Rules and wondering what should he do facing such a discrepancy between Rules and the HC...

I like the Pace of Play rules.  Good for them.

As far as R15, I'm assuming the breach was coming up a lot in their tournaments, that's why it was added.  Unfortunately, I just think this speaks as to the rules knowledge level among golfers here in the States.

I don't think that it's just in the US.  We get as many questions about basic rules from other parts of the world, at least based on membership percentages.  I'm just happy that we have a site like this to help spread this information, and members who have enough interest to ask the questions.