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2014 FIFA World Cup Thread - Page 63

post #1117 of 1211

Whilst dabbling in personal opinion a bit (albeit most people would agree)

 

1950 - Brazil best team, Uruguay won

1954 - Hungary best team, Germany won (probably biggest shock in a final though)

1958 - Brazil best team and won

1962 - Brazil best team and won

1966 - No obvious stand out team, host won

1970 - Brazil best team, and won (largely regarded as best team in history)

1974 - Holland best team, Germany won

1978 - No obvious stand out team, host won

1982 - Brazil & France best teams, Italy won

1986 - No obvious stand out team, Maradonna won, albeit you would have to concede Argentina deserved it

1990 - Germany best team and won

1994 - Brazil probably best team and won

1998 - No obvious best team, hosts won, on the back of their defence

2002 - Weirdest world cup of all time. Brazil won without playing anyone of any consequence until the final

2006 - No obviosu best team, possibly Germany, Italy won

2010 - Spain best team and won

 

I reckon that there's at least five and probably six occasions out of 16 where the wrong team wins

 

Argentina won't sit off Germany like Brazil did and Germany will have it much harder. Germany have struggled a bit against pressing teams like Ghana, The USA, and Algeria. Having said that they seem to have stumbled into a better balance with Lahm at right back and Hummel in the centre

 

All I really want now is for Howard Webb to be given the final and award a dodgy penalty against the Argies. That could set another war off.

 

Incidentally in 1965 two South American countries did go to war over a world cup qualifying result. Can't remember who, but have a feeling Ecuador might have been one of them?

post #1118 of 1211
Horrible game today.

Glad to see Argentina win, but sadly, they're going to get killed in the final.
post #1119 of 1211

I think Holland will look back at that I think to themselves that they should have played a lot more positively. They stifled themselves. It's perhaps been no coincidence that they've played their best football when they've fallen behind and were forced to do something instead falling back on this ultra cautious error elimination strategy. The sad thing for the Dutch is that they can't really say at least we gave it our best shot. They should have adopted the maxim of attack being the best method of defence and done what the Argies would least have liked and risked making a few errors in return for creating a few chances. The sad thing for them, is that you could actually see this was the case after 30 mins, and certainly at the hour mark as Messi started to fall out of the game

 

In other developements, Nigeria have been suspended by FIFA urm.... 

 

Whereas i have little doubt that all is not on the level in the Nigerian FA, I'm not sure FIFA (of all bodies) have got any moral right to sit in judgement of anyone, albeit you could say it takes a thief to catch a thief

post #1120 of 1211
Quote:
Originally Posted by David in FL View Post

Horrible game today.

Glad to see Argentina win, but sadly, they're going to get killed in the final.

Not so sure about that.  Argentina will play much better defense than Brasil.  Germany tends to play close to the vest.  The last game was an anomaly for them.

 

NED started the WC being aggressive, but each game became more and more conservative.  This last game was a clear example of NOT wanting to go to PKs.  

post #1121 of 1211
Quote:
Originally Posted by boogielicious View Post

Not so sure about that.  Argentina will play much better defense than Brasil.  Germany tends to play close to the vest.  The last game was an anomaly for them.

NED started the WC being aggressive, but each game became more and more conservative.  This last game was a clear example of NOT wanting to go to PKs.  

The Dutch started very very conservative for their standards. This was the most defensive formation they ever started with. 5-3-2. Mainly because their defense existed out of players from the Dutch football league. And they weren't that good. So an extra defender to make up for lack in quality did the trick.

When you see dirk kuyt making an appearance in de defense you should ask yourself why don't the Dutch have a better defender than an old striker.

Anyways the Dutch never were aggressive, they played smart the first few matches and had Robbens speed to look aggressive.

Robben owned Messi, Ronaldo and Neymar this tournament if you ask me.
post #1122 of 1211
Quote:
Originally Posted by yrew View Post


The Dutch started very very conservative for their standards. This was the most defensive formation they ever started with. 5-3-2. Mainly because their defense existed out of players from the Dutch football league. And they weren't that good. So an extra defender to make up for lack in quality did the trick.

When you see dirk kuyt making an appearance in de defense you should ask yourself why don't the Dutch have a better defender than an old striker.

Anyways the Dutch never were aggressive, they played smart the first few matches and had Robbens speed to look aggressive.

Robben owned Messi, Ronaldo and Neymar this tournament if you ask me.

Agree.  I was hoping they would set a more offensive formation.  But they didn't unfortunately.  They did a good job on Messi, but at the cost of the counter attack.

post #1123 of 1211
Quote:
Originally Posted by yrew View Post


The Dutch started very very conservative for their standards. This was the most defensive formation they ever started with. 5-3-2. Mainly because their defense existed out of players from the Dutch football league. And they weren't that good. So an extra defender to make up for lack in quality did the trick.

When you see dirk kuyt making an appearance in de defense you should ask yourself why don't the Dutch have a better defender than an old striker.

Anyways the Dutch never were aggressive, they played smart the first few matches and had Robbens speed to look aggressive.

Robben owned Messi, Ronaldo and Neymar this tournament if you ask me.


You think? Ronaldo maybe but Neymar and Messi have been just as influential. I know you're biased(!) but I can't stand Robben - a talented, gifted player but one of the worst cheats I can think of at the moment.

post #1124 of 1211
Quote:
Originally Posted by misty_mountainhop View Post
 


You think? Ronaldo maybe but Neymar and Messi have been just as influential. I know you're biased(!) but I can't stand Robben - a talented, gifted player but one of the worst cheats I can think of at the moment.

I stopped rooting for Netherlands a few games ago because I noticed this.

post #1125 of 1211
I get your points. He did flop a few times but Messi does the same. Only Messi doesn't throw his arm up when he does it. Neymar is a very dirty player. Ronaldo whines for cards.

Look at Messi and what he has shown this cup. It's not that much really.

Ronaldo had a really bad team around him. I really like his skills but he is not big in sportsmanship.

Neymar flops, asks for cards and makes really dirty fauls.

Robben admitted to flopping. The flop he admitted to was a flop that did not had a game altering outcome if he succeeded in convincing the refs. It was halfway on the opponents side.

So yeah I am biased but I think you are having just a bit to much on him. Every time he had some room he made the defence crazy. Last night he owned three defenders at once in the penalty box.

So yeah I am sticking to my conclusion. And I will post some stats when I am at home. Just have to know where to get the stats.
post #1126 of 1211
Quote:
Originally Posted by yrew View Post

I get your points. He did flop a few times but Messi does the same. Only Messi doesn't throw his arm up when he does it.

Of course tons of these guys flop and I'm making no comparisons ... specifically regarding Robben, though, it's the bold that bothers me.  Every time, it's arms flailing, legs also flailing, and head thrown back while screaming.  The fact that the refs frequently fall for that is infuriating.  The only type of foul that should precede that type of action would be a dropkick to the middle of the back, (Neymars injury foul qualifies) so I think it would be easy to tell him they're just not giving him anything when he does it.  That would put an end to it real quick.

 

He was actually the only player in the shootout yesterday where I was rooting for him to fail miserably.  I am heartbroken for these guys when they miss the net or have their shots blocked in these shootouts, but I would have taken joy in seeing him sail one off the top of the crossbar, or miss wide.

post #1127 of 1211
I was stating who I think was the best player out of those four. Not who had the best sportsmanship. The way you put it you base it on your feelings about a certain individual and not his actual results.
post #1128 of 1211
Quote:
Originally Posted by yrew View Post

I was stating who I think was the best player out of those four. Not who had the best sportsmanship.

Cool.  I wasn't disputing that.  All I did was agree with @misty_mountainhop when he said he didn't like Robben.

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by yrew View Post

The way you put it you base it on your feelings about a certain individual and not his actual results.

Base what?  My feelings about Robben are the only thing I was talking about.  Nothing to do with how talented he, or anybody else, has been at the World Cup.

post #1129 of 1211

Well as said I was biased. I am not drawing conclusions based on the stats below other than Robben is the fastest and out distanced all of them. Goals scored

player matches played minutes played total goals scored goals p/m
Lionel Messi 6 573 4 0,007
Neymar 5 457 4 0.009
Arjen Robben 6 600 3 0.005
Cristiano Ronaldo 3 270 1 0.004

Shots

player total shots on target woodword shot p/m
Cristiano Ronaldo 23 14 1 0,052
Arjen Robben 19 18 0 0,032
Neymar 18 13 0 0,039
Lionel Messi 18 10 0 0.031

Defending

Player tackles tackles won blocks recovered balls
Neymar 6 3 0 16
Lionel Messi 7 0 0 7
Arjen Robben 2 0 0 9
Cristiano Ronaldo 1 0 1 6

passes

Player total passes passes completed crosses crosses completed
Arjen Robben 244 68% 13 38%
Lionel Messi 310 69% 8 28%
Neymar 218 63% 13 39%
Cristiano Ronaldo 112 73% 0 0

distance

Player distance covered in possesion not in possesion top speed meters per minute
Arjen Robben 69.1 27.7 22.1 31.6 115
Lionel Messi 51.9 22.3 14.8 29.6 90
Neymar 49.9 18.5 15.9 31.8 109
Cristiano Ronaldo 28.2 11.2 9.1 31.2 104
post #1130 of 1211
Quote:
Originally Posted by Golfingdad View Post
 

Cool.  I wasn't disputing that.  All I did was agree with @misty_mountainhop when he said he didn't like Robben.

 

Base what?  My feelings about Robben are the only thing I was talking about.  Nothing to do with how talented he, or anybody else, has been at the World Cup.

 

I was talking about who I thought was the best off those four players and I thought you continued along side that discussion. I misunderstood you.

post #1131 of 1211
post #1132 of 1211
Quote:
Originally Posted by yrew View Post
 

 

I was talking about who I thought was the best off those four players and I thought you continued along side that discussion. I misunderstood you.

No worries.  However, if I had been discussing that ... I'd probably (albeit with bias) lean towards Messi over Robben.  Based on all of the stats you provided, the only thing Robben has done more of is run.  Messi has a sizable advantage in passes completed.  All of the rest of the stats are fairly comparable, with Messi having scored one more goal on one less shot, in 27 less minutes. :beer:

post #1133 of 1211
Quote:
Originally Posted by Golfingdad View Post
 

No worries.  However, if I had been discussing that ... I'd probably (albeit with bias) lean towards Messi over Robben.  Based on all of the stats you provided, the only thing Robben has done more of is run.  Messi has a sizable advantage in passes completed.  All of the rest of the stats are fairly comparable, with Messi having scored one more goal on one less shot, in 27 less minutes. :beer:

I came to the same conclusion as you did after seeing the stats. I guess for me my bias comes from being Dutch. And the only thing I hear about Messi is that he is so great, so good, the best, pisses pure gold, shits diamonds etc etc etc. When someone tells me a movie is the best movie he has ever seen and it beats every movie out there I am kinda expecting a lot. But in comparrison based on stats he is indeed better.....but not that much and certainly not worth the extra oooh's and aaah's

and appart from running, Robben had a bit more solos and I think that made him more dangerous

post #1134 of 1211

I thought I had those stats posted but I havent and I deleted my txt file with the tables but look at http://www.fifa.com/worldcup/statistics/players/attacking.html Messi had 7 solo's into the area. Robben had 17.

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