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When will tour players call out Keegan Bradley? - Page 2

post #19 of 81
Quote:
Originally Posted by Monte the Bear View Post
 

But does that make it right?

I don't think so.  But you seem to be singling out one player because you also don't like his OCD pre-shot routine. (I find it annoying too, and I like Bradley)  The PGA seems to be allow this rule infraction to slide by.  Sort of like traveling in the NBA when players drive to the net.  On the other thread, that I can't find, it was clear that most of us thought tamping down the grass behind the ball was improving the lie.  Why the PGA doesn't address it is unknown.

post #20 of 81

When do you draw the line between addressing the ball and tapping down the grass? Golfers have a right to back of a shot if they want. So, who makes that judgement call, and is it worth the problems if they get it wrong?

post #21 of 81
Quote:
Originally Posted by saevel25 View Post
 

When do you draw the line between addressing the ball and tapping down the grass? 

Apparently, it's right after the third twirl/flip.

post #22 of 81
Quote:
Originally Posted by saevel25 View Post
 

When do you draw the line between addressing the ball and tapping down the grass? Golfers have a right to back of a shot if they want. So, who makes that judgement call, and is it worth the problems if they get it wrong?

QFT ^.  Given Bradley's OCD, they would be walking into potential litigation if they singled him out over other golfers.  I see plenty of golfers use their address or pre-address routine to "improve" their lie so unless they put out a new rule that says once you address the ball you can't back off it's a non-issue.

post #23 of 81
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ernest Jones View Post
 

Apparently, it's right after the third twirl/flip.

 

Or the tenth re grip for Sergio, oh wait he fixed that. 

post #24 of 81

Phil M. will place the club behind the ball in the rough, then pull it out and do a practice swing adjacent to the ball.  He only does it once though.

post #25 of 81
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by boogielicious View Post
 

I don't think so.  But you seem to be singling out one player because you also don't like his OCD pre-shot routine. (I find it annoying too, and I like Bradley)  The PGA seems to be allow this rule infraction to slide by.  Sort of like traveling in the NBA when players drive to the net.  On the other thread, that I can't find, it was clear that most of us thought tamping down the grass behind the ball was improving the lie.  Why the PGA doesn't address it is unknown.

That's not true - the guy can twitch away to his hearts content as long as he hits the ball. It's the use of the club in the rough that has my attention.

 

Next time he's out in the lettuce around the green and there is a camera on him, watch him. If this isn't improving your lie, I dunno what is.

post #26 of 81

Wasn't Kenny Perry accused of this in a playoff at the Phoenix Open a couple of years ago. The ball was initially covered by grass then by the time he chipped the ball was completely visible. Basically the USGA said he did nothing wrong. I would be surprised if the result was any different here.

post #27 of 81
Quote:
Originally Posted by mchepp View Post

Wasn't Kenny Perry accused of this in a playoff at the Phoenix Open a couple of years ago. The ball was initially covered by grass then by the time he chipped the ball was completely visible. Basically the USGA said he did nothing wrong. I would be surprised if the result was any different here.

Yes: http://thesandtrap.com/t/24018/kenny-perry-caught-cheating-or-not/0_30
post #28 of 81
Quote:
Originally Posted by Monte the Bear View Post
 

Seems like I'm not the only person to notice this.

 

http://www.sbnation.com/golf/2013/5/31/4383358/keegan-bradley-pga-tour-memorial-tournament-2013

I've never really paid any attention to this.  But watching this video, you can see that what he does that is slightly different than the norm, and I think at the crux of Monty's point, is that when he takes his practice swings, he sets the club behind the ball, then swings forward inside the ball.  (And it looks like during the video he does it 4 times prior to the actual shot.  3 practice swings and one where he just places it behind the ball then backs off)

 

Obviously, he wouldn't be dumb enough to put the club too close to the ball, because he doesn't want to risk it moving, but I could see how one could argue that every time he takes that practice swing, he's sort of pushing down the grass out of the way of his backswing, and thus getting some of it out of the way of his forward swing as well.

 

Is it intentional?  Heck if I know.

Is it uncommon?  I don't know that either.

Does it even matter, seeing as how it's the exact same motion as his actual backswing, which would move the grass in the same manner?  I don't know that either.

 

I choose not to speculate or accuse anybody of anything.  However, I will be paying more attention to this now that I am aware.

post #29 of 81
Quote:
Originally Posted by Golfingdad View Post
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Monte the Bear View Post
 

Seems like I'm not the only person to notice this.

 

http://www.sbnation.com/golf/2013/5/31/4383358/keegan-bradley-pga-tour-memorial-tournament-2013

I've never really paid any attention to this.  But watching this video, you can see that what he does that is slightly different than the norm, and I think at the crux of Monty's point, is that when he takes his practice swings, he sets the club behind the ball, then swings forward inside the ball.  (And it looks like during the video he does it 4 times prior to the actual shot.  3 practice swings and one where he just places it behind the ball then backs off)

 

Obviously, he wouldn't be dumb enough to put the club too close to the ball, because he doesn't want to risk it moving, but I could see how one could argue that every time he takes that practice swing, he's sort of pushing down the grass out of the way of his backswing, and thus getting some of it out of the way of his forward swing as well.

 

Is it intentional?  Heck if I know.

Is it uncommon?  I don't know that either.

Does it even matter, seeing as how it's the exact same motion as his actual backswing, which would move the grass in the same manner?  I don't know that either.

 

I choose not to speculate or accuse anybody of anything.  However, I will be paying more attention to this now that I am aware.

 

I think this post is on the money. My question is...how does one "call him out?" I'm sure there are officials who are going back reviewing all types of stuff players are doing from prior tournaments. 

 

Second, if you're not cheating then you're not trying, and also, if you're not complaining or arguing you're not on TST. lol

post #30 of 81

This thread got me to thinking (it happens sometimes).

 

If I got one of those chipping clubs with a bounce about 2 inches long I could smash all of the grass out of the way with one good press behind the ball and then just swing away. Nobody would be the wiser. :-)

post #31 of 81

I'm sure more than 1 person watching him on TV has called in to complain. Until the Officials call something on him, I'll give him a pass, and he's not even 1 of my favorite players... 

post #32 of 81
Thread Starter 

Well, next time he's playing at a tournament with a bit of rough (won't be Shell or obviously Augusta), check it out.

 

Once again, his modus operandi is to deliberately set the club behind the ball a minimum of 4 times before he addresses and plays it. He does this in the rough every time, but does not do it on the fairway. It is outside of his short-cut routine. When he has finished and he is addressing the ball, I feel he can get to the back of the ball easier with the manufactured lie than how it originally was lying.

 

But that's my opinion.

 

As for calling him out - players do this all the time to officials if they see something a bit awry. As others have said, maybe they all do it and prefer to turn a blind eye - who would want to crap in their own nest, after all. It's only the rules and spirit of the game, after all.

post #33 of 81
Quote:
Originally Posted by Monte the Bear View Post
 

Well, next time he's playing at a tournament with a bit of rough (won't be Shell or obviously Augusta), check it out.

 

Once again, his modus operandi is to deliberately set the club behind the ball a minimum of 4 times before he addresses and plays it. He does this in the rough every time, but does not do it on the fairway. It is outside of his short-cut routine. When he has finished and he is addressing the ball, I feel he can get to the back of the ball easier with the manufactured lie than how it originally was lying.

 

But that's my opinion.

 

As for calling him out - players do this all the time to officials if they see something a bit awry. As others have said, maybe they all do it and prefer to turn a blind eye - who would want to crap in their own nest, after all. It's only the rules and spirit of the game, after all.


There are a lot of former PGA tour players and tour players who take the week off, but might be watching the event's TV coverage who've got to see this and should be calling it in.  Isn't that how Tiger got busted at Augusta? 

post #34 of 81
Tiger got busted by a rules official who was watching.

I actually agree with Monte. What Keegan does in his routine doesn't pass the smell test for me.
post #35 of 81

Some may not like the dance and gyrations of Keagan Bradley, but what he is doing right now is not against the rules the way they are written. His dance is a bit unusual, most of us don't get it and certainly would not mimic it on our weekend round accept for an attempt at humor. Some people may have called in and it likely was dismissed because its not against the rules.

 

Rules officials are there to enforce the rules, not interpret the rules. Tigers violations were clear and apparent, were they deliberate? that's for another threads discussion. But they were violations of the rules.

 

Keagans actions could be deemed illegal or a violation, once the rule states that you can only back off from a shot 2 times. But don't hold your breath.

post #36 of 81
Quote:
Originally Posted by Spitfisher View Post
 

Some may not like the dance and gyrations of Keagan Bradley, but what he is doing right now is not against the rules the way they are written. His dance is a bit unusual, most of us don't get it and certainly would not mimic it on our weekend round accept for an attempt at humor. Some people may have called in and it likely was dismissed because its not against the rules.

 

Rules officials are there to enforce the rules, not interpret the rules. Tigers violations were clear and apparent, were they deliberate? that's for another threads discussion. But they were violations of the rules.

 

Keagans actions could be deemed illegal or a violation, once the rule states that you can only back off from a shot 2 times. But don't hold your breath.

Well said, the rules officials would have to differentiate between his OCD and bad intent, which unless they are mind readers is hard to do.

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