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When will tour players call out Keegan Bradley? - Page 3

post #37 of 81
Quote:
Originally Posted by mchepp View Post
 

Wasn't Kenny Perry accused of this in a playoff at the Phoenix Open a couple of years ago. The ball was initially covered by grass then by the time he chipped the ball was completely visible. Basically the USGA said he did nothing wrong. I would be surprised if the result was any different here.

Yes. I mentioned him earlier in the thread.  What Kenny was doing, was definitely cheating, IMO.  

post #38 of 81
Thread Starter 

Has nothing to do with his OCD nonsense. Nothing, nada, bugger all, zip, squelch, zero.

 

Must I repeat myself? This has nothing to do with his ridiculous nervous ticks. It's about manufacturing a lie in the rough.

 

Spitfisher - you are right and wrong.

 

Rule 13-1 states 'The ball must be played as it lies, except as otherwise provided by the rules'. He does not do this, in my opinion.

 

Rule 13-2 states 'A player must not improve or be allowed to improve the lie or position of his ball by any of the following

 

  • pressing a club on the ground,
  • moving, bending or breaking anything growing or fixed (including immovable Obstructions and objects defining Out Of Bounds),
  • creating or eliminating irregularities of surface,
  • removing or pressing down sand, loose soil, replaced divots or other cut turf placed in position, or
  • removing dew, frost or water.

I would say Bradley is guilty of at breaking at least three of these points.

 

The definition defining addressing a ball is

 

'A player has “addressed the ball” when he has grounded his club immediately in front of or immediately behind the ball, whether or not he has taken his stance.'

 

So technically, once Bradley puts his club behind the ball, he's addressed it for the first time, in my view. Because the club head is so close to the ball.

 

The only rule that  could apply is 6-7 - undue delay, slow play. For me, once a player has addressed his ball, there is a time limit to hitting the ball - 40 to 60 seconds. So technically, if a rules official considered Bradley had addressed the ball the first time he had put the club head behind the ball, he's on the clock. Like you say, won't happen, but should.

 

If Bradley wants to carry on his antics, I'm fine with this - just don't put the club behind the ball 4 or 5 times and construct yourself a better lie.

post #39 of 81
Quote:
Originally Posted by Monte the Bear View Post
 

Has nothing to do with his OCD nonsense. Nothing, nada, bugger all, zip, squelch, zero.

 

Must I repeat myself? This has nothing to do with his ridiculous nervous ticks. It's about manufacturing a lie in the rough.

 

Spitfisher - you are right and wrong.

 

Rule 13-1 states 'The ball must be played as it lies, except as otherwise provided by the rules'. He does not do this, in my opinion.

 

Rule 13-2 states 'A player must not improve or be allowed to improve the lie or position of his ball by any of the following

 

  • pressing a club on the ground,
  • moving, bending or breaking anything growing or fixed (including immovable Obstructions and objects defining Out Of Bounds),
  • creating or eliminating irregularities of surface,
  • removing or pressing down sand, loose soil, replaced divots or other cut turf placed in position, or
  • removing dew, frost or water.

I would say Bradley is guilty of at breaking at least three of these points.

 

The definition defining addressing a ball is

 

'A player has “addressed the ball” when he has grounded his club immediately in front of or immediately behind the ball, whether or not he has taken his stance.'

 

So technically, once Bradley puts his club behind the ball, he's addressed it for the first time, in my view. Because the club head is so close to the ball.

 

The only rule that  could apply is 6-7 - undue delay, slow play. For me, once a player has addressed his ball, there is a time limit to hitting the ball - 40 to 60 seconds. So technically, if a rules official considered Bradley had addressed the ball the first time he had put the club head behind the ball, he's on the clock. Like you say, won't happen, but should.

 

If Bradley wants to carry on his antics, I'm fine with this - just don't put the club behind the ball 4 or 5 times and construct yourself a better lie.

You have been repeating yourself many times.  What we are saying again and again is we agree, we don't like it and many other players do it

post #40 of 81
Quote:
Originally Posted by newtogolf View Post
 

Well said, the rules officials would have to differentiate between his OCD and bad intent, which unless they are mind readers is hard to do.

 

I'm in neither camp really but there's some interesting discussion. Regarding the above: so if he's really OCD, it's OK to bend/break a rule (if that's what he's doing)?? OCD (or whatever) shouldn't enter into it - it's either a rule infringement or not.

post #41 of 81
Quote:
Originally Posted by newtogolf View Post
 

Well said, the rules officials would have to differentiate between his OCD and bad intent, which unless they are mind readers is hard to do.

 

i dont think it has anything to do with that.  hes bending the grass down.  regardless of intent/OCD.

post #42 of 81

I'm a big fan of Keegan, I like my golf with a bit of character....but I'm leaning with Monte and Colin on this one.

 

I think eventually a player or official will call foul. Perhaps no one really wants to get into it because of the OCD factor. I know I wouldn't, haha. 

post #43 of 81
Quote:
Originally Posted by boogielicious View Post
 

You have been repeating yourself many times.  What we are saying again and again is we agree, we don't like it and many other players do it

It's his "Bradley Tic" ... LOL

post #44 of 81
Quote:
Originally Posted by misty_mountainhop View Post
 

 OCD (or whatever) shouldn't enter into it - it's either a rule infringement or not.

You're correct....it's SHOULDN'T. But I personally think it does. No one wants to be THAT guy that has to say, "ummm, keegan, WTF"

post #45 of 81
Quote:
Originally Posted by Crim View Post
 

You're correct....it's SHOULDN'T. But I personally think it does. No one wants to be THAT guy that has to say, "ummm, keegan, WTF"


It could be done quite quietly though couldn't it? Officials have a word with Bradley off-camera somewhere and say that it needs addressing (;-)). I think there's possibly an issue if others have been doing similar in the past and it's never been called but that doesn't mean it should continue. If I was one of the other players and thought Bradley was being cut some slack and maybe gaining an advantage because no-one in officialdom had any balls over it, I'd be pretty annoyed.

post #46 of 81

I personally like to make sure that the person is actually doing something, before saying they are. I am not a fan of trying to assume intent. In this case after watching the video a few times, even with out intent. I think he is breaking the rules. I get he is re-addressing the ball over and over again. I don't mind him lifting the club up and down a few times, if that is something he does as part of his routine. Mike Weir took his club up to A2 once or twice before taking a stroke when he won the Masters. So, I get the little things golfers do before a shot. To address the ball, tamp down the grass a few times. Then do it again. Its gotten to the point were the lie has improved. I get we can't say he is intentionally doing so. I think he crosses the line far enough that the rules officials should talk to him about it or start penalizing him. 

post #47 of 81
Quote:
Originally Posted by colin007 View Post
 

 

i dont think it has anything to do with that.  hes bending the grass down.  regardless of intent/OCD.

Then a lot of guys are breaking the rules, including me.  I will put my club head at address to see what kind of lie I'll have, then back off, set my line and re-address the ball.  In the process I'm bending grass down behind my ball as I address it.

post #48 of 81
Quote:
Originally Posted by newtogolf View Post
 

Then a lot of guys are breaking the rules, including me.  I will put my club head at address to see what kind of lie I'll have, then back off, set my line and re-address the ball.  In the process I'm bending grass down behind my ball as I address it.


Why do you do that??? :hmm:

post #49 of 81
Quote:
Originally Posted by misty_mountainhop View Post
 


Why do you do that??? :hmm:

I do that on every shot, regardless of lie, just the pre-shot routine I was taught.  It takes all of 10 seconds but gives me an idea of if the ball is above or below my feet.

post #50 of 81
Quote:
Originally Posted by newtogolf View Post
 

Then a lot of guys are breaking the rules, including me.  I will put my club head at address to see what kind of lie I'll have, then back off, set my line and re-address the ball.  In the process I'm bending grass down behind my ball as I address it.

 

 

I never do that. I will look over the lie and try to find one similar near me to take practice strokes to get a feel for the resistance. From there, I will try to place the club down so I don't move the ball. I've had some issues were the ball might be supported on some grass and grounding the club could possible cause it to move. 

post #51 of 81
Quote:
Originally Posted by newtogolf View Post
 

Well said, the rules officials would have to differentiate between his OCD and bad intent, which unless they are mind readers is hard to do.

 

It's already been addressed, but intent is not a factor here. It's simply a question of whether or not he's altering (improving) his lie.

post #52 of 81
Quote:
Originally Posted by iacas View Post
 

 

It's already been addressed, but intent is not a factor here. It's simply a question of whether or not he's altering (improving) his lie.

Then if that's the acid test any golfer that addresses their ball, backs off and re-addresses it most likely has improved their lie to some degree, especially if it's in tall rough.

post #53 of 81
Quote:
Originally Posted by newtogolf View Post
 

Then if that's the acid test any golfer that addresses their ball, backs off and re-addresses it most likely has improved their lie to some degree, especially if it's in tall rough.

 

no.  youll see a lot of golfers very carefully assessing their lie by specifically placing the club a short distance behind the ball so that the grass immediately behind the ball is untouched.  by this method, there will still be the same amount of grass/clubface interaction, and the lie is not improved.

 

of course, this is generally in the rough.  in the fairway theres not a whole lot of improving since the grass is so short.

post #54 of 81
Quote:
Originally Posted by saevel25 View Post
 

 

 

I never do that. I will look over the lie and try to find one similar near me to take practice strokes to get a feel for the resistance. From there, I will try to place the club down so I don't move the ball. I've had some issues were the ball might be supported on some grass and grounding the club could possible cause it to move. 

This is what I do.

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