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Tracking Round Statistics

post #1 of 29
Thread Starter 

More and more people are understanding the value of statistics. Understanding the strengths and weaknesses of ones games leads to "smarter" practicing and strategizing during a round.

 

Tracking meaningful statistics sounds like hard work, and it can be, that's why UltimateGolfStats.com was started, to enable easy tracking of shot by shot statistics that actually mean something and can help you improve your game.

 

We are currently looking for beta testers to help with the testing and to create the best statistics tracking website/app ever!

 

I've been talking to Erik @iacas and Mike @mvmac about a potential partnership to hopefully create an even better solution for us all.

 

Please check it out and let me know what you think, you can sign up directly at www.UltimateGolfStats.com

 

Best,

 

Daniel

 

PS- Not sure if we’ll ever charge money for this, but beta testers are guaranteed lifetime free use of our website and app.

post #2 of 29

I've already registered but was wondering if there is an iPhone app to download?

post #3 of 29
Thread Starter 

Thanks for helping out. There is currently no app to download. All you need to do is open your iPhone's browser and go to UltimateGolfStats.com on your phone, you will see the website is different, and this is where you start every time you want to start tracking a round.

 

You can create a Bookmark on your iPhone or Android phone that will allow you to go straight to the website from the home screen.

 

When we are done with the beta testing we will have a proper iPhone and Android app to download which will not require internet access.

post #4 of 29

Gonna sign up now now and have a look. I currently use golf shot but feel the statistics part of that app is a bit weak so i'm hopeful this will be a bit of an upgrade

post #5 of 29
Thread Starter 

Awesome, I think you'll be pleasantly surprised at both the quantity and quality of the stats. Please come back and share your thoughts.

post #6 of 29

Looks great, just signed up to test it out. Best of luck!!

post #7 of 29

I signed up, as I love slicing and dicing information like this. In my "My Scores" signature, you can see how the US Handicap slices and dices the score information I input there. It is my official handicap system (not GHIN). If there's a way to import data into this system to avoid re-keying all of the information by hand, that would be a great feature. I'll dive in later on after I find the time to input a few scores.

post #8 of 29
I'll give I a whirl - just started using a few others and not yet locked into any one format. Happy to take yours for a spin. Thanks!
post #9 of 29

This looks awesome!  I currently use GolfShot free version cause there's a pricey monthly cost to cover the GPS and course mapping that comes with the paid version, but I only want better stats.  Just added the course I played yesterday so I could start a round there to see what's on offer.  Didn't go all the way through so I couldn't check exactly what stats and info you offer at the end, but if you offer stats on all the info you collect, I am PUMPED.

 

Just for everyone's info, I went through one hole, so this surely doesn't cover everything, but already looks great.  You set up your bag on the website.  Then it asks, shot by shot, about each hole.  You tell it where you were lying (after the tee shot), including tons of categories, more than just fairway, rough, bunker.  Click on the club used.  There's a 9 square grid overlaid on a target.  You enter where you hit relative to your target, so you can give it good distance right, on target but short, long and left, etc.  I missed the green, and when for my 3rd shot I entered LW, there's all the above info to give, but there's also a "Was this a chip?" box, and then you enter the distance your chip shot was from the hole.  Putts also give you target and you enter distance to the hole.

 

May I suggest that if you choose yards at least that putt distance is automatically asked in feet?  There's no decimal, so you can't say 1 foot or 4 feet, which are quite different from 0 feet or 3 feet or 6 feet.

 

Website looks very beta.  Not ultra smooth or pretty at this point.  But definitely usable.  An app would be better.  If you make a mistake you need a POSTDATA reload, and I imagine having it be a website will suck battery life much more than an app.  And it will take a full round to get used to the flow and whatnot (for instance, you have to hit the "Was this a chip?" box before your box from the target or else you don't get to enter how long the chip was.  But this looks super promising.

post #10 of 29

I just signed up and am happy to be a beta tester, but I don't have a smart phone. Even if I did, I am not sure I would have it on when I play golf. Are you going to produce a pdf scorecard that I can print out to record the relevant data as I play but enter it into the app when I get home? I know that shotbyshot.com and others offer this. How will the stats I get from ultimategolfstats.com differ from what I get at shotbyshot.com?

 

Thanks.

post #11 of 29
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by RandallT View Post
 

I signed up, as I love slicing and dicing information like this. In my "My Scores" signature, you can see how the US Handicap slices and dices the score information I input there. It is my official handicap system (not GHIN). If there's a way to import data into this system to avoid re-keying all of the information by hand, that would be a great feature. I'll dive in later on after I find the time to input a few scores.

Hey, I checked out your scores. First of all I only saw 6 month old scores, was I in the right place? In any case, what would you like to import? If it's just the actual score I'm afraid that won't be possible because of the rest of the "round" would be missing, however feel free to PM me and I'll see what I can do.

post #12 of 29
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by mdl View Post
 

This looks awesome!  I currently use GolfShot free version cause there's a pricey monthly cost to cover the GPS and course mapping that comes with the paid version, but I only want better stats.  Just added the course I played yesterday so I could start a round there to see what's on offer.  Didn't go all the way through so I couldn't check exactly what stats and info you offer at the end, but if you offer stats on all the info you collect, I am PUMPED.

 

Just for everyone's info, I went through one hole, so this surely doesn't cover everything, but already looks great.  You set up your bag on the website.  Then it asks, shot by shot, about each hole.  You tell it where you were lying (after the tee shot), including tons of categories, more than just fairway, rough, bunker.  Click on the club used.  There's a 9 square grid overlaid on a target.  You enter where you hit relative to your target, so you can give it good distance right, on target but short, long and left, etc.  I missed the green, and when for my 3rd shot I entered LW, there's all the above info to give, but there's also a "Was this a chip?" box, and then you enter the distance your chip shot was from the hole.  Putts also give you target and you enter distance to the hole.

 

May I suggest that if you choose yards at least that putt distance is automatically asked in feet?  There's no decimal, so you can't say 1 foot or 4 feet, which are quite different from 0 feet or 3 feet or 6 feet.

 

Website looks very beta.  Not ultra smooth or pretty at this point.  But definitely usable.  An app would be better.  If you make a mistake you need a POSTDATA reload, and I imagine having it be a website will suck battery life much more than an app.  And it will take a full round to get used to the flow and whatnot (for instance, you have to hit the "Was this a chip?" box before your box from the target or else you don't get to enter how long the chip was.  But this looks super promising.

 

The issue with Feet and Yards is just a bug and will be fixed today. The way it should be is that we track Yards for every shot except when you have a putter in your hand (on or off the green) then we track in feet.

 

As for the app, you are absolutely right, there will be an actual app which will be faster and prettier :-) and of course it will not require an internet connection. The app will be ready right after we finish beta testing.

 

PS- If you forget to hit "It was a chip", you can simply go back by clicking on the "lie" you selected, it will then show you the "target/chip" screen again :-)  (Again, it will be better in the app, promise :-) )

post #13 of 29
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by SCC4380 View Post
 

I just signed up and am happy to be a beta tester, but I don't have a smart phone. Even if I did, I am not sure I would have it on when I play golf. Are you going to produce a pdf scorecard that I can print out to record the relevant data as I play but enter it into the app when I get home? I know that shotbyshot.com and others offer this. How will the stats I get from ultimategolfstats.com differ from what I get at shotbyshot.com?

 

Thanks.

We will have eventually a printed version (in fact this is how this whole thing started), it should be ready by the time we finish beta testing.

 

I am not very familiar with shotbyshot.com, but from what I can see there are many differences, most obvious is the price :-), however most importantly is the philosophy, UltimateGolfStats.com is about capturing the quality of your shots as it relates to you, so that you can tell how you are playing, and not what the score says. Here's an example, say you hit your driver way to the right on a par 4 and the ball lies on the bushes right behind a huge tree, you have no shot to the green, in fact, just finding the fairway will be tough. You take out your PW and hit a super 60-yard chip that puts you in the middle of the fairway, granted still 120 yards from the green. Was this a good shot or a bad shot? Most (if not all) statistics tracking products will tell you everything is bad, you missed the green, now go scramble from 120 yards which you may not. However, for you, this was a great save, right? UltimateGolfStats is about capturing that great chip from behind the tree...

 

UltimateGolfStats is about capturing statistics that are meaningful to amateur players, yes, scrambling % is great, and of course we capture that as well, but what about the things that happen to us (amateurs) in real life? How many times do I hit which clubs fat? What wedge is best from which distance? What are my tendencies when putting? Am I short, long? How about when chipping?

 

Wow, sorry for the long post, I got carried away :-)   (I could keep going)

post #14 of 29
Quote:
Originally Posted by UGolfStats View Post
 

Hey, I checked out your scores. First of all I only saw 6 month old scores, was I in the right place? In any case, what would you like to import? If it's just the actual score I'm afraid that won't be possible because of the rest of the "round" would be missing, however feel free to PM me and I'll see what I can do.

Yep, that's right. I haven't played in a while! I just PM'ed you with the export files I can get from my round tracking app. The site you see in the link is manually input. There should be a button for "More Stats" somewhere, but I sent you a better link, I hope. Thanks for the response. As I wrote in my PM, the more I think about it, the idea of exporting from another app and importing into yours may not work, because the data collected is likely significantly different. I was just looking to minimize multiple data entry somehow. I look forward to trying out your app.

post #15 of 29

I've used it for one round so far and I think your biggest challenge is going to be to the time it takes to enter the data.  Its understandable because you're trying to collect so much data, but I found it cumbersome to enter all that data after each shot.  And I'm someone who tracks a lot of information on other apps when I play.  I'm not sure exactly how it can be improved.  I've seen one other app that tried to track as much as you are--swing by swing--and I only used it for a round or two for the very same reason.  

 

A couple more thoughts:

 

  1. Since you're not collecting shot distance via gps, I found it easier to just enter the information after each hole, rather than each shot.  In fact, I actually stopped after a couple holes altogether then did it after the round.  It took forever.
  2. Sometimes I think attempting to streamline things too much actually has the opposite effect.  I used to use Golflogix a lot which approaches data entry similar to UGS in that it asks you one or two questions and moves to  the next screen, leading you through the data input.  It makes it difficult to go back and fix mistakes and for some reason that I can't really explain, I think it makes the data entry slower.  Compare that to oobgolf, which gives you one screen per hole, and allows you to enter a lot of data.  I find the oobgolf interface to be far superior to golflogix.  While you collect some data that oobgolf doesn't (quality of contact, primarily) and oobgolf tracks some things UGS doesn't (like shot distances and other random things), both try to collect large amounts of data and its worth checking out how they approach the data input.
  3. If you're going to stick with encouraging people to enter data after each shot, then why not track GPS distance as well?  

 

 

My only complaint with oobgolf, and I mention this because I think input on similar products should be helpful to you, is that despite allowing you to enter a TON of data, it doesn't present it very well.  For example, I can track the distance of every put and approach shot and the result.  But I can't log into my account and see my putt make % from 12 feet or my hit/miss/left/right from 150 yards.  Instead it tells me my average approach distance or putt made distance.  My point being that how you use the data is incredibly important.  

 

Hope this helps.  The idea seems very promising.

post #16 of 29
Thread Starter 

Thanks a lot for the feedback. Obviously one of the most important parts of this product is the phone data entry. We are and will continue to collect feedback like yours to hopefully create the ultimate data entry app, as you said, it's not simple, there is a lot of data.

 

Regarding the GPS, there are a couple issues around this. First is the speed, when tracking GPS it takes a few moments (if not minutes) for the phone to accurately locate your position (unless the phone is left on all the time), which forces the player to stand still at an exact location for a bit, this has several undesired effects, for example, the rest of the group starts moving while the player waits, it also forces you to enter the data at an exact particular time, can't be postponed, so forget about chit-chatting :-). Very anti-social :-)

The 2nd issue with GPS is that most of the times the distances it produces are not very useful in creating a realistic picture of a player's capabilities. Maybe longest drive distance is fun, but average for a 7 iron for example? What does that mean? wind, no wind, hot, cold, what about the times you used your 7 as a bump and run? How about the times it was mishit? The point is that we think every golfer should know how far they hit each club with a full shot, however at any given moment the shot will always be different. Going uphill? downhill? danger in front? danger in back? That's why we don't care much for GPS distances :-)   (I may be totally wrong, hope I'm not offending anyone :-) )

post #17 of 29
Quote:
Originally Posted by UGolfStats View Post
 

Thanks a lot for the feedback. Obviously one of the most important parts of this product is the phone data entry. We are and will continue to collect feedback like yours to hopefully create the ultimate data entry app, as you said, it's not simple, there is a lot of data.

 

And I completely understand that we're in beta and the website isn't the final solution.  

 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by UGolfStats View Post

 

Regarding the GPS, there are a couple issues around this. First is the speed, when tracking GPS it takes a few moments (if not minutes) for the phone to accurately locate your position (unless the phone is left on all the time), which forces the player to stand still at an exact location for a bit, this has several undesired effects, for example, the rest of the group starts moving while the player waits, it also forces you to enter the data at an exact particular time, can't be postponed, so forget about chit-chatting :-). Very anti-social :-)

 

 

I completely agree with you about this.  Its a hard thing to get right.  The only way I can think to make it easier would be to tag the spot without opening the app.  There's another product being discussed on here where you tap a device on your belt with your club to automatically note the club and mark the distance.  An app version of that might let you push a "track" button without even unlocking your phone.  My music apps for example let me pause, play, and skip without unlocking and navigating the app.  Just an idea.  

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by UGolfStats View Post
 

The 2nd issue with GPS is that most of the times the distances it produces are not very useful in creating a realistic picture of a player's capabilities. Maybe longest drive distance is fun, but average for a 7 iron for example? What does that mean? wind, no wind, hot, cold, what about the times you used your 7 as a bump and run? How about the times it was mishit? The point is that we think every golfer should know how far they hit each club with a full shot, however at any given moment the shot will always be different. Going uphill? downhill? danger in front? danger in back? That's why we don't care much for GPS distances :-)   (I may be totally wrong, hope I'm not offending anyone :-) )

 

 

Some of those are unavoidable, but you're already tracking data that can fix others.  So if I chunk a 7 iron i'm marking it as a chunk it your app--that could then be excluded from the stats displayed on the webiste.  You could do the same with bump and run, kind of like how you have the chip/pitch.  Uphill, downhill, wind, and taking a little off are tougher to account.  So you may be right that its not worth it.  :beer:

post #18 of 29
Quote:
Originally Posted by UGolfStats View Post
 

Regarding the GPS, there are a couple issues around this. First is the speed, when tracking GPS it takes a few moments (if not minutes) for the phone to accurately locate your position (unless the phone is left on all the time), which forces the player to stand still at an exact location for a bit, this has several undesired effects, for example, the rest of the group starts moving while the player waits, it also forces you to enter the data at an exact particular time, can't be postponed, so forget about chit-chatting :-). Very anti-social :-)

 

The 2nd issue with GPS is that most of the times the distances it produces are not very useful in creating a realistic picture of a player's capabilities. Maybe longest drive distance is fun, but average for a 7 iron for example? What does that mean? wind, no wind, hot, cold, what about the times you used your 7 as a bump and run? How about the times it was mishit? The point is that we think every golfer should know how far they hit each club with a full shot, however at any given moment the shot will always be different. Going uphill? downhill? danger in front? danger in back? That's why we don't care much for GPS distances :-)   (I may be totally wrong, hope I'm not offending anyone :-) )

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by dsc123 View Post
 

 

Some of those are unavoidable, but you're already tracking data that can fix others.  So if I chunk a 7 iron i'm marking it as a chunk it your app--that could then be excluded from the stats displayed on the webiste.  You could do the same with bump and run, kind of like how you have the chip/pitch.  Uphill, downhill, wind, and taking a little off are tougher to account.  So you may be right that its not worth it.  :beer:

 

When I first started using golf tracking apps, I was definitely excited about the yardage tracking portions of them. Over time, less and less so. You guys captured it perfectly.  I don't even track anything other than drives now, and even that is suspect for the reasons you list. But still I like to get the drive data. I'd be disappointed if I couldn't collect it, frankly- despite all of those limitations. Even if you give us the option to hand-enter an estimated yardage without GPS. I can usually tell within 10 or 20 yards, and that's good enough for me. When you see my stats rounded off to the nearest 10, most likely I missed my GPS point and it was a guess. But it's good enough to tell me what I want to know.

 

The key distances we need to track are putts. In "feet," not yards. 

 

I'll also echo Dan's idea on data entry. The easier that apps try to make it, the clumsier it can be. Ironic, but true. Give me a big sheet of data entry any time. I think if we had the ability to edit a large grid of our data AFTER the round, that would be perfect. We can try to get what we can on the course, but let us play and not be data nerds while playing. Within a day or two, we can usually recall each shot and enter the data in one shot through a simple grid that shows us all the info at once on something like an enhanced scorecard. For each hole, just give us the ability to add/delete/edit shots that we may or may not have entered while on the course.

 

One cool thing that I've seen hints of on other apps, but nothing done very well, is the ability to compare our data against the 'field."  For example:

 

For my course, what are the average scores? Hardest holes? Toughest greens to 2-putt?

 

For others near our handicap worldwide, what is the average FIR? GIR? How far do they drive? 

 

For me to get 2 strokes better on my handicap, what should my recovery percentage be? How much do I need to improve on my 6 footers to be at that level?

 

For my courses, are there others who might be opting into to social meetups or leagues/tournaments?  I haven't seen the social aspect explored too much, although there is a vendor here who is pursuing that.  Foursum, I believe. 

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