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Iron offset, promote a hook or not

post #1 of 12
Thread Starter 

I am looking to buy new irons this season. currently playing with Macgregor JNPs reshafted with Nippon shafts. I have been using the same irons for over 20 years and think my swing could use a little more help than these irons give me. My dilemma is that my miss is a pull hook. I know that it is fundamentally a swing error (a little bit of a flip) that I am working on. That being said I don't want to exasperate my problem but the idea that offset promotes a hook is not an absolute and I have read a lot of controversy on the topic.  I am looking at the Callaway apex which has  the forgiveness that I want or maybe the AP2 which has less offset. This is a big expense

and I don't want to get it wrong. Thanks for any info

post #2 of 12
Quote:

Originally Posted by Sixshooter View Post

 

My dilemma is that my miss is a pull hook. I know that it is fundamentally a swing error (a little bit of a flip) that I am working on. That being said I don't want to exasperate my problem but the idea that offset promotes a hook is not an absolute and I have read a lot of controversy on the topic.

Well you have probably covered a lot in what you have read. My understanding is that the primary advantage can be getting your hands in front of the ball. Generally a good thing for your swing. Back to that in a moment. I know some make note that offset moves center of gravity back slightly (as compared to the shaftline). The claim is this slight move helps get the clubhead to square at impact (for someone who slices). It stands that such a phenomenon might also push the clubhead past square for someone. I wouldn't get too carried away with this, though. You are talking a minor change in center of gravity. Odds are variances in shaft flex in your set would have more impact than such a slight change, but I will defer to anyone who can illustrate the math.

 

Hands in front of the ball is a good image, you want to be hitting down and through the ball and not scooping at it. While offsets help groove that image in your head, they only gets your hands in front by essentially moving the clubhead back. It's a bit like having one of those circus mirrors that make you look thin in your workout room; it provides a good image, but it may mislead you into thinking you are doing something you aren't. 

 

Are offsets the cause of your occasional hook? You should talk to your pro, but I would doubt your equipment issues are so severe that they are the major cause whatever problem you have.

post #3 of 12
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sixshooter View Post
 

I am looking to buy new irons this season. currently playing with Macgregor JNPs reshafted with Nippon shafts. I have been using the same irons for over 20 years and think my swing could use a little more help than these irons give me. My dilemma is that my miss is a pull hook. I know that it is fundamentally a swing error (a little bit of a flip) that I am working on. That being said I don't want to exasperate my problem but the idea that offset promotes a hook is not an absolute and I have read a lot of controversy on the topic.  I am looking at the Callaway apex which has  the forgiveness that I want or maybe the AP2 which has less offset. This is a big expense

and I don't want to get it wrong. Thanks for any info

 

http://thesandtrap.com/t/69693/offset-irons-conventional-wisdom-vs-reality#post_893056

 

Doesn't really cause much of anything with the swing. The distance it is offset versus less offset clubs is not that big in the grand scheme of the golf swing. Meaning, you are only talking about a fraction of an inch. Lets just look at AP2 versus AP1. Apex didn't show their offset. 

 

AP2 for a 7 iron has an offset of 0.110"

AP1 has a 0.145"

Taylormade Steelblade has it at 0.154

 

So you are talking about 0.035 to 0.045 inches. 

 

Less than a tenth of an inch. Now think about it this way, that is less than a tenth of an inch moving at, lets say for a pro, 94 miles per hour. For an amateur, I would guess 70-80 mph. 

 

Look at it this way, lets say 75 mph, that is 110 feet per second, or 1323 inches per second. So think about that. The club face is adjusted only 0.045 inches. Yet the club moves at 1323 inches per second. The club face is moving WAY TO FAST for anything significant to happen. 

 

Basically the only thing offset might does is look different. Basically it causes you to line up with the face closed because the toe to heel relationship is off, so your eyes probably want see the heel and toe line up to be square, but since the toe is further back, you bring that more forward, so you close the clubface more at address. 

post #4 of 12
Quote:
Originally Posted by saevel25 View Post
 

Basically the only thing offset might does is look different. Basically it causes you to line up with the face closed because the toe to heel relationship is off, so your eyes probably want see the heel and toe line up to be square, but since the toe is further back, you bring that more forward, so you close the clubface more at address. 

 

That's what I've been sayin', yep.

 

Edit: errr, yeah, like the link you posted. :D

post #5 of 12
Thread Starter 

thanks for the info, went to Golfsmith and hit the Apex irons with the offset  they felt great and seemed to hook less that my gamers. Set up a fitting for Friday.  Seemed like I set up with the ball a little back in my stance to compensate, but they felt great.

post #6 of 12
I won't hit an iron with a lot of offset. Hook machines. Same for woods. The irons I play have minimal offset. No worries about hooks.
post #7 of 12
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sixshooter View Post
 

I am looking to buy new irons this season. currently playing with Macgregor JNPs reshafted with Nippon shafts. I have been using the same irons for over 20 years and think my swing could use a little more help than these irons give me. My dilemma is that my miss is a pull hook. I know that it is fundamentally a swing error (a little bit of a flip) that I am working on. That being said I don't want to exasperate my problem but the idea that offset promotes a hook is not an absolute and I have read a lot of controversy on the topic.  I am looking at the Callaway apex which has  the forgiveness that I want or maybe the AP2 which has less offset. This is a big expense

and I don't want to get it wrong. Thanks for any info

 

With your 8.6 index I'd be very surprised if offset improves anything in your game, you already know how to hit a golf ball.  Just sayin.

post #8 of 12
Quote:
Originally Posted by StrayCat View Post
 

 

With your 8.6 index I'd be very surprised if offset improves anything in your game, you already know how to hit a golf ball.  Just sayin.

 

Offset doesn't improve anything. Its a minuscule amount of distance compared to a very fast moving object. All it does is cause a person to aim their club more left. 

post #9 of 12
Quote:
Originally Posted by saevel25 View Post

Offset doesn't improve anything. Its a minuscule amount of distance compared to a very fast moving object. All it does is cause a person to aim their club more left. 
So it doesn't promote hooks but most likely a pull?
post #10 of 12
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jakester23 View Post


So it doesn't promote hooks but most likely a pull?

 

It promotes a closed clubface through visual deception. What ever that does to your ball flight, it is because of your swing. If a guy can hit a push draw with tons of offset, then it clearly doesn't bother him as much or maybe he's adjusted to it otherwise. 

post #11 of 12

Promoting a forward hand position that helps an average player square the clubface at impact is the primary benefit of offset. What iacas says matches the advice from the GolfWorks school I attended.

 

Another factor: individual differences in the human eye. If what looks "square" to you is actually several degrees closed, this could contribute to leftward shots. Also, having the ball too far back in your stance can product draws, etc. A lesson might be the best first step.

post #12 of 12
Thread Starter 

Thanks, I went to Golfsmith and got fitted, tried several different irons and settled on the apex irons, they do have offset which I am not used to but they felt great and the numbers were great also, they didn't seem to increase a hook so I took the plunge. They should be in in about  2 weeks. I hope they work as good as they felt on the indoor simulator.

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