Off-Shoot of Another Putter Thread (Putter Costs, Fitting, etc.)

[iacas]

$300-$590+.... I think that's all I really needed to see. That is absolutely insane and overpriced.

And yet… Edel Putters cost $350 to $500 and are often some of the best money you can spend if you're serious about golf.

If you're happy with a $50 putter (anyone, I mean), great. But we sell a lot of Edel putters and for good reason… and many of those same reasons are why MACHINE putters are chosen by many.

[Spyder]

And yet… Edel Putters cost $350 to $500 and are often some of the best money you can spend if you're serious about golf.

If you're happy with a $50 putter (anyone, I mean), great. But we sell a lot of Edel putters and for good reason… and many of those same reasons are why MACHINE putters are chosen by many.

lol I hope nobody takes that out of context and jumps to the "So you're not serious if you don't spend $300+ on a putter?" conclusion.

Anyway, this is my point to elaborate on my initial comment. Scotty Camerons are typically $350 - however they're a massive, marketing machine.. PGA Tour "Proven" and have thousands and thousands and thousands of followers, loyalists and consumers. They also have gigantic marketing budgets. I have paid that price for their putters several times as well, with no questions asked and without being turned off by the price.

How can a company like this, 1/100th of the scale, possibly justify that cost? I'm not sure what I'm missing. I'm not asking in a rhetorical way, or to be an ass. I honestly want to know so that I can change my opinion if I am wrong.

I nearly wept when my fitter handed me my Cleveland HB1 and showed me statistical data that proved that the putter would work better for me than my Newport was. That has yet to be proven on the course, but we'll see.

I personally rarely, almost never , buy into marketing. Erik, the portion of your post that I placed in bold could be considered marketing as well. You honestly don't believe that once you have fit one of your customers with an Edel putter, that you would be able to find an alternative nearly $200 cheaper (in the $100-150 range) that will offer them very similar results for nearly $200 in savings?

[saevel25]

I personally rarely, almost never, buy into marketing. Erik, the portion of your post that I placed in bold could be considered marketing as well. You honestly don't believe that once you have fit one of your customers with an Edel putter, that you would be able to find an alternative nearly $200 cheaper (in the $100-150 range) that will offer them very similar results for nearly $200 in savings?

Here's the thing that makes your statement nearly impossible. I say nearly because somebody is going to fit into the a club at a lower cost. Yet, MAJORITY of golfers play a putter that is way too light.

Here is an example. Two weekends ago I was up in Erie PA taking an aimpoint lesson. During that time I was fitted for an Edel Putter. I found out that my current putter I could aim perfectly were I wanted it. Just the shape, and the lines on it work for me. I got LUCKY!! with that. the problem is the head weight is about 40 grams too light, and I need about 30-40 grams counterbalance in the butt end. Now I can go spend some money and get the counterbalance done. That would bring my putter up to about $120 dollars. Yet, the problem is there is NO WAY I can add 40 grams of weight to my putter head.

Lead tape, 1/2" inch wide, takes about a 2 inch strip to get 1 gram.

So you are talking 40, 2 inch strip of lead tape. That is an ABSURD amount of lead tape.

So now, I am stuck with a putter that I can aim, but I will struggle with distance control because the weighting is too off.

Now, there are a few thins a good putter does. Read the line, can aim the putter, and can control their distance. I will lack one of these things until I can get a putter fitted for me correctly. This isn't a lie or loft adjustment. This is purely the weight of the putter. Which can't be changed on an off the shelf model.

Now Odyssey makes a "Tank" putter. Its about $100 dollars more expansive. I still have to adjust the counter balance on it. Yet it doesn't come in the style that fits my eye. So I might get better distance control, but I would suffer in aiming my putter.

So, combining all of this together. People get fitted for a $400 dollar driver they use 14 times, and they don't want to drop that for a putter they use 30+ times? Just saying, people might want to strongly consider it.

[Spyder]

Here's the thing that makes your statement nearly impossible. I say nearly because somebody is going to fit into the a club at a lower cost. Yet, MAJORITY of golfers play a putter that is way too light.

Here is an example. Two weekends ago I was up in Erie PA taking an aimpoint lesson. During that time I was fitted for an Edel Putter. I found out that my current putter I could aim perfectly were I wanted it. Just the shape, and the lines on it work for me. I got LUCKY!! with that. the problem is the head weight is about 40 grams too light, and I need about 30-40 grams counterbalance in the butt end. Now I can go spend some money and get the counterbalance done. That would bring my putter up to about $120 dollars. Yet, the problem is there is NO WAY I can add 40 grams of weight to my putter head.

Lead tape, 1/2" inch wide, takes about a 2 inch strip to get 1 gram.

So you are talking 40, 2 inch strip of lead tape. That is an ABSURD amount of lead tape.

So now, I am stuck with a putter that I can aim, but I will struggle with distance control because the weighting is too off.

Now, there are a few thins a good putter does. Read the line, can aim the putter, and can control their distance. I will lack one of these things until I can get a putter fitted for me correctly. This isn't a lie or loft adjustment. This is purely the weight of the putter. Which can't be changed on an off the shelf model.

Now Odyssey makes a "Tank" putter. Its about $100 dollars more expansive. I still have to adjust the counter balance on it. Yet it doesn't come in the style that fits my eye. So I might get better distance control, but I would suffer in aiming my putter.

So, combining all of this together. People get fitted for a $400 dollar driver they use 14 times, and they don't want to drop that for a putter they use 30+ times? Just saying, people might want to strongly consider it.

I understand what you are saying here. Again, in my case, it worked the opposite. Yes, I was "fit" for an off the shelf Scotty with some adjustments to lie and loft - not a custom built putter. I then played around with some cheaper equipment and found the $100 Cleveland putter was working much better for me.

I can't be that much of an oddity, so I was simply led to believe that more people could benefit from trying a vast array of equipment.

I definitely subscribe to being fit for all of your equipment, including the putter. That much is not up for debate. What I am trying to wrap my head around is the justification of the cost from Machine Putters compared to more reputable companies.

[iacas]

lol I hope nobody takes that out of context and jumps to the "So you're not serious if you don't spend $300+ on a putter?" conclusion.

People can take it however they like. I have my experience to back up what I'm saying, though, and even semi-serious golfers - once they see where and how they aim their putters and how well they control distance with their putters versus a custom-fit Edel - often make the same types of claims.

This thread isn't about that, so I'll be short, and we should try to get back to the topic.

Anyway, this is my point to elaborate on my initial comment. Scotty Camerons are typically $350 - however they're a massive, marketing machine.. PGA Tour "Proven" and have thousands and thousands and thousands of followers, loyalists and consumers. They also have gigantic marketing budgets. I have paid that price for their putters several times as well, with no questions asked and without being turned off by the price.

I personally rarely, almost never, buy into marketing.

You seem to have contradicted yourself. Moving on…

How can a company like this, 1/100th of the scale, possibly justify that cost? I'm not sure what I'm missing. I'm not asking in a rhetorical way, or to be an ass. I honestly want to know so that I can change my opinion if I am wrong.

Because the putter is fit (by more than loft and lie) to you. They're also all one-of-a-kind. If you don't "buy into marketing" then I don't know how you think Scotty Cameron can justify the cost of a bunch of assembly line putters but not spending $100 more to have a fully personalized, fully fit putter that allows you to aim accurately and control distance as well as you can, and has custom stamping, etc. on it.

I nearly wept when my fitter handed me my Cleveland HB1 and showed me statistical data that proved that the putter would work better for me than my Newport was. That has yet to be proven on the course, but we'll see.

What statistical data? Loft and lie?

I personally rarely, almost never, buy into marketing. Erik, the portion of your post that I placed in bold could be considered marketing as well. You honestly don't believe that once you have fit one of your customers with an Edel putter, that you would be able to find an alternative nearly $200 cheaper (in the $100-150 range) that will offer them very similar results for nearly $200 in savings?

No. Absolutely not.

I'd think people know this about me by now: I don't give a rat's behind about marketing. I don't do retail. We fit and sell Edel putters because they make golfers better. They work. We don't make a lot from selling or fitting them - we like to make golfers happier, and when they play better and shoot lower scores, they're happy, and we were a small part of that.

So, combining all of this together. People get fitted for a $400 dollar driver they use 14 times, and they don't want to drop that for a putter they use 30+ times? Just saying, people might want to strongly consider it.

Also, your putter is something you can use for life. People replace drivers frequently.

I understand what you are saying here. Again, in my case, it worked the opposite. Yes, I was "fit" for an off the shelf Scotty with some adjustments to lie and loft - not a custom built putter.

That's not really being "fit." That's the cheap, easy stuff. Dollars to donuts, you don't aim your putter inside the hole from eight feet away.

I definitely subscribe to being fit for all of your equipment, including the putter. That much is not up for debate. What I am trying to wrap my head around is the justification of the cost from Machine Putters compared to more reputable companies.

Again, you weren't really "fit" for your putter if all they changed was the loft and lie.

So now back to the topic. If you want to continue… there are a few threads, including: .

[Spyder]

I would love to respond, but I don't care to drag any of this on any further. Apparently tone, intent and direction were lost in my posts. I apologize.

[iacas]

I would love to respond, but I don't care to drag any of this on any further. Apparently tone, intent and direction were lost in my posts. I apologize.

Well, that's disappointing.

I think @saevel25 and I simply responded to what you typed. I know I neither read nor intended any ill will or anything negative in any of the posts.

[saevel25]

Well, that's disappointing.

I think @saevel25 and I simply responded to what you typed. I know I neither read nor intended any ill will or anything negative in any of the posts.

Agreed, I was just responding that in economical terms, once you find out that you need a putter that is very much weighted differently than any current off the shelf putter, that it gets to the point were modifications really are too much of a hassle and the cost difference isn't as large as one thinks. So might as well go to a place that specializes in customization to the point you can dial in the weight and how the putter looks so you are getting something truly tailored to your own stroke.

Basically, does the extra $250 dollars or so carry more importance than missing putts due to an ill-fitted putter. Some people might not want to spend that extra cash, while others might see it as something they can't pass up.

[Spyder]

Well, that's disappointing.

I think @saevel25 and I simply responded to what you typed. I know I neither read nor intended any ill will or anything negative in any of the posts.

No, not at all! I just don't want to hijack the thread from the OP - that's all.

You know much more about fitting and equipment than I do, by far. It seemed as though my previous post was questioning your expertise and that was definitely not my intent and I can see how others would have read what I typed and thought that was the case. That's my bad!.

I was only saying that taken at face value, it could be taken as a marketing line. Especially by people like me, who are uneducated in terms of putter fittings. I thought a putter fitting incorporated you walking out of the store with the proper length, grip, lie, loft, weight and visually appealing alignment aids which produced optimal results.

Back to topic!

I should have kept my question simple and just asked " How can Machine Putters compete with other companies in the industry when they're not as well-known, yet still market their product at such a high cost? "

I love non-traditional ideas and one-off businesses, similar to how I love craft beer as opposed to large breweries (based simply on quality and taste). Is this a comparable type of scenario? The process of creating a one-off putter is so much more intricate and detailed that the cost is justified? Similar to how I'm paying $15-18 for a six-pack of brew when I could be getting a 24 pack of bud light for the same price?

[saevel25]

I should have kept my question simple and just asked "How can Machine Putters compete with other companies in the industry when they're not as well-known, yet still market their product at such a high cost?"

I love non-traditional ideas and one-off businesses, similar to how I love craft beer as opposed to large breweries (based simply on quality and taste). Is this a comparable type of scenario? The process of creating a one-off putter is so much more intricate and detailed that the cost is justified? Similar to how I'm paying $15-18 for a six-pack of brew when I could be getting a 24 pack of bud light for the same price?

Like I mentioned before. Its not a feel thing, its a customization thing. Its being fitted. Edel could caste their putters, or mill them from one piece, or weld them together. If the putter had the quality that didn't become a negative, their fitting services make the cost worth it. Its the extra bonus added on besides the putter.

So, in general terms, would I buy a milled putter off the rack. NO, i don't see the cost benefit for me. Would I buy a milled putter that came with true customization to my putting stroke, yes. Again that putter doesn't have to be milled.

So for the OP, milled doesn't mean much to me. Its the other things that matter more.

[newtogolf]

Here's the thing that makes your statement nearly impossible. I say nearly because somebody is going to fit into the a club at a lower cost. Yet, MAJORITY of golfers play a putter that is way too light.

Here is an example. Two weekends ago I was up in Erie PA taking an aimpoint lesson. During that time I was fitted for an Edel Putter. I found out that my current putter I could aim perfectly were I wanted it. Just the shape, and the lines on it work for me. I got LUCKY!! with that. the problem is the head weight is about 40 grams too light, and I need about 30-40 grams counterbalance in the butt end. Now I can go spend some money and get the counterbalance done. That would bring my putter up to about $120 dollars. Yet, the problem is there is NO WAY I can add 40 grams of weight to my putter head.

Lead tape, 1/2" inch wide, takes about a 2 inch strip to get 1 gram.

So you are talking 40, 2 inch strip of lead tape. That is an ABSURD amount of lead tape.

So now, I am stuck with a putter that I can aim, but I will struggle with distance control because the weighting is too off.

Now, there are a few thins a good putter does. Read the line, can aim the putter, and can control their distance. I will lack one of these things until I can get a putter fitted for me correctly. This isn't a lie or loft adjustment. This is purely the weight of the putter. Which can't be changed on an off the shelf model.

Now Odyssey makes a "Tank" putter. Its about $100 dollars more expansive. I still have to adjust the counter balance on it. Yet it doesn't come in the style that fits my eye. So I might get better distance control, but I would suffer in aiming my putter.

The putter you happened to pick doesn't allow for weight adjustment, but had you selected a SC or Odyssey that used weights, you'd be able to add heavier or lighter weights very easily.  We can move this discussion to the other forums but like @Spyder stated, there are many options if you look for them.  Edel makes it easier to find the right one but at a price.

[saevel25]

Yes yes I could have, but they didn't have the adjustable weights in a putter I liked or felt good to putt with. So no it wouldn't have worked out.

[iacas]

The putter you happened to pick doesn't allow for weight adjustment, but had you selected a SC or Odyssey that used weights, you'd be able to add heavier or lighter weights very easily.  We can move this discussion to the other forums but like @Spyder stated, there are many options if you look for them.  Edel makes it easier to find the right one but at a price.

SC putters are not very adjustable by weight. 10-20 grams. And he'd still have to add the counter-weighting and pay for the weight change (or order it special).

[newtogolf]

SC putters are not very adjustable by weight. 10-20 grams. And he'd still have to add the counter-weighting and pay for the weight change (or order it special).

Most recent SC have 2 (Futura X has 4) removable weights that can be swapped out and replaced with 5g - 40g weights.  Depending on the putter, most come with 2x10g or 2x15g weights, so you'd have the ability to increase the putter weight by 40g - 60g.  I just purchased 2- 30g weights for $40 online with the weight removal tool included.

As for counter weighting, it depends on how you want to do it, SuperStroke or SecretGrip are popular options.

[iacas]

Most recent SC have 2 (Futura X has 4) removable weights that can be swapped out and replaced with 5g - 40g weights.  Depending on the putter, most come with 2x10g or 2x15g weights, so you'd have the ability to increase the putter weight by 40g - 60g.  I just purchased 2- 30g weights for $40 online with the weight removal tool included.

As for counter weighting, it depends on how you want to do it, SuperStroke or SecretGrip are popular options.

And as Matt and others said, that assumes you can aim that putter to begin with. It wasn't an option for Matt. He can aim his putter, but can't add weight (certainly not inexpensively).

P.S. Those are - for many - non-starter options for counter-weighting because they force you into those grips.

[newtogolf]

And as Matt and others said, that assumes you can aim that putter to begin with. It wasn't an option for Matt. He can aim his putter, but can't add weight (certainly not inexpensively).

P.S. Those are - for many - non-starter options for counter-weighting because they force you into those grips.

I'm just talking about weight here, if you can't aim the putter, that's a different discussion.  I don't think I mentioned anything about aim, I was just pointing out that weight is more customizable on a SC than you indicated.

I'm seeing a lot of SuperStrokes on Tour so not sure if that's a negative unless you prefer a really small putter grip.

[iacas]

… that's a different discussion …

As is talk of weight and grips… which is why I'm trying to get back to THIS thread's given topic.