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Ball lands on the fringe of a parallel hole, what do I do?

post #1 of 34
Thread Starter 

I was playing at Highland Hills in Greeley, CO yesterday.  Most of the fairways run up and down parallel to one another.  On the 18th hole there is a dogleg right that I was trying to cut a little with a fade.  In the corner of that dogleg is the green for some other hole.  I ended up slicing my fade and it landed on the fringe of the green on that other hole.  I wasn't going to take a full 160 yard shot from the fringe of another green, so I took two club lengths back from where my ball landed and hit from there.  What should have I done?

post #2 of 34
Played it from the fringe.

You only get relief (required) from another putting green.
post #3 of 34
Strictly IAW the rules, since it wasn't on the putting green itself, you should have played it as it lies.

I'm sure the superintendent appreciated your decision though.....

If the ball had actually been on the green, you would have identified your nearest point of relief (not in a hazard or on the putting green) and dropped within one club length, not nearer the hole.

Given that, if you were going to take relief (incorrectly) from the fringe, that would have been a better way to proceed.


Edited to add that Erik beat me to it....
post #4 of 34

Unless there is a Local Rule requiring you to take relief from the fringe.

post #5 of 34

Except in a tournament, I would have taken a drop as if I were actually on the green in order to preserve the course.

post #6 of 34
Quote:
Originally Posted by bkuehn1952 View Post
 

Except in a tournament, I would have taken a drop as if I were actually on the green in order to preserve the course.

 I hope you included the penalties in your score ;-)

 

It is upto the committee/management to protect the course if the so wish. The facility is there.

post #7 of 34
Quote:
Originally Posted by bkuehn1952 View Post
 

Except in a tournament, I would have taken a drop as if I were actually on the green in order to preserve the course.

 

As would I, for the preservation of the course.  Sorry Rulesman, but even though you are technically correct, it would be poor form to tear up the fringe of a green for no good reason.

post #8 of 34
Thread Starter 

Cool, thank you all for the quick replies.  

post #9 of 34
Quote:
Originally Posted by D-Man View Post
 

I was playing at Highland Hills in Greeley, CO yesterday.  Most of the fairways run up and down parallel to one another.  On the 18th hole there is a dogleg right that I was trying to cut a little with a fade.  In the corner of that dogleg is the green for some other hole.  I ended up slicing my fade and it landed on the fringe of the green on that other hole.  I wasn't going to take a full 160 yard shot from the fringe of another green, so I took two club lengths back from where my ball landed and hit from there.  What should have I done?


I applaud you for protecting the green's fringe. Well done sir. Hope there are many birdies in your future.

post #10 of 34
Would have done the same thing... well done. Course preservation is better than trying to obey every single rule.
post #11 of 34
Quote:
Originally Posted by dsal13 View Post

Would have done the same thing... well done. Course preservation is better than trying to obey every single rule.

 

Course preservation and Rules compliance needn't be mutually exclusive. Rule 28 gives the player a perfectly good way to do both.

post #12 of 34
Quote:
Originally Posted by Asheville View Post
 

 

Course preservation and Rules compliance needn't be mutually exclusive. Rule 28 gives the player a perfectly good way to do both.

 

This is true and it looks like OP did that, except we do not know if he added the penalty. No need for special rules.

post #13 of 34
Quote:
Originally Posted by luu5 View Post
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Asheville View Post
 

 

Course preservation and Rules compliance needn't be mutually exclusive. Rule 28 gives the player a perfectly good way to do both.

 

This is true and it looks like OP did that, except we do not know if he added the penalty. No need for special rules.

 

Because of the existence of the permissible local rule allowing relief in this situation, I disagree that it would be necessary to take the penalty in all cases.  Rule 33-8/33 says:

 

Quote:
 

33-8/33

Local Rule Prohibiting Dropping on Apron When Ball on Wrong Putting Green

Q.Balls from the 13th tee frequently come to rest on the 15th green, and the point of nearest relief under Rule 25-3 is the closely mown apron of the green. Much damage is being caused to this apron. May the Committee make a Local Rule requiring that a ball be dropped not only clear of the putting surface but also clear of the apron of this green?

A.Yes. The following wording for a Local Rule is suggested:

"For the purpose of Rule 25-3, the putting green of the 15th hole includes the apron surrounding the green."

 

In the US, for most courses and players, there is no committee which sets either temporary or permanent local rules.  Lacking such authority, it is often up to the group of players to act as their own committee determine what constitutes need for implementing such rules.  I can guarantee you that if you were to discuss it with the greenskeeper on just about any public golf course, he is going to to be wholeheartedly in favor of such a local rule.  In fact, because he is part of the staff of the course, he qualifies as a member of the committee for the course if such an entity can be thought to exist.  

 

I will agree with the above post to the extent that such a local rule should be specific, not generalized, and apply only to a hole or holes where the situation is often encountered.  

post #14 of 34
Quote:
Originally Posted by luu5 View Post

This is true and it looks like OP did that, except we do not know if he added the penalty. No need for special rules.

If the player did not have the intent to proceed under Rule 28 when he picked up his ball, Rule 28 can not be assigned to the player's actions. Without such intent, the player has played from a wrong place. This is from Decision 34-3/6
post #15 of 34
Quote:
Originally Posted by rogolf View Post


If the player did not have the intent to proceed under Rule 28 when he picked up his ball, Rule 28 can not be assigned to the player's actions. Without such intent, the player has played from a wrong place. This is from Decision 34-3/6

 

True, what I mean is that there is no need to make things more complicated when in this type of situation. Just take unplayable and that's it. All done by the book.

post #16 of 34

If it is a green where this happens often and the course management aren't concerned enough to make a local rule, then play it as it lies.

 

If it is a 'once in a blue moon' incident, again play it as it lies or take an unplayable if you are very concerned.

 

However, an isolated divot hole should be dealt with properly by the green staff by the following morning at the latest. From a protection aspect it really is no different from a rabbit scrape. Although I accept players get relief from one and not the other.

post #17 of 34
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fourputt View Post

 

In the US, for most courses and players, there is no committee which sets either temporary or permanent local rules.  Lacking such authority, it is often up to the group of players to act as their own committee determine what constitutes need for implementing such rules.

I like this interpretation of things, but I do find it probably in conflict with 1 - 3: Agreement to waive the rules. This thinking though does help greatly with addressing so many issues. Unless you are in a tournament with a declared committee, why can't a foursome be its own committee, look at a situation and quickly render a logical conclusion. The problem is at most courses you do have a committee (e.g. Green Committee or Golf Committee) who is charged with making local rules. But, very rarely are such local rules complete or well communicated.

 

If it is a match, the technically easy way of dealing with this - concede the hole - offer it up to the golf gods as penance for the sin of putting the ball on another hole. Or, if you are not comfortable playing a ball from a location, and there is no relief, declare it unplayable (Rule 28) and take your stroke penalty (again offer it up to the golf gods, they will repay you).

 

Technically if there is doubt as to whether you might have relief, play two balls - one assuming there is relief and the second under the premise of an unplayable. If you aren't granted relief, that would at least guard you against playing from the wrong position (Rule 20), which would be a two-stroke penalty (or possibly dq) vs. the one stroke you ate for unplayable. I don't think you can have one ball assume both roles (e.g. say you only took a club length relief and assume if it is not relief I will just call it unplayable); there is a decision that says if you declare a ball unplayable and BEFORE playing your next shot, you discover it is a ground under repair, then you can proceed under relief. Once you hit the ball (under Rule 28) without clarifying you are proceeding under relief from ground under repair, you are stuck with the unplayable.

 

In the grand scheme of things, if you were the group in front of me, I would rather the four of you to assume the role of committee, quickly say "sure go ahead, save the course and take relief," and keep things moving. That one stroke probably matter won't much in whatever match you are playing. But everyone else one the course will appreciate your prudence.

post #18 of 34
Quote:
Originally Posted by JoePete View Post
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fourputt View Post

 

In the US, for most courses and players, there is no committee which sets either temporary or permanent local rules.  Lacking such authority, it is often up to the group of players to act as their own committee determine what constitutes need for implementing such rules.

I like this interpretation of things, but I do find it probably in conflict with 1 - 3: Agreement to waive the rules. This thinking though does help greatly with addressing so many issues. Unless you are in a tournament with a declared committee, why can't a foursome be its own committee, look at a situation and quickly render a logical conclusion. The problem is at most courses you do have a committee (e.g. Green Committee or Golf Committee) who is charged with making local rules. But, very rarely are such local rules complete or well communicated.

 

If it is a match, the technically easy way of dealing with this - concede the hole - offer it up to the golf gods as penance for the sin of putting the ball on another hole. Or, if you are not comfortable playing a ball from a location, and there is no relief, declare it unplayable (Rule 28) and take your stroke penalty (again offer it up to the golf gods, they will repay you).

 

Technically if there is doubt as to whether you might have relief, play two balls - one assuming there is relief and the second under the premise of an unplayable. If you aren't granted relief, that would at least guard you against playing from the wrong position (Rule 20), which would be a two-stroke penalty (or possibly dq) vs. the one stroke you ate for unplayable. I don't think you can have one ball assume both roles (e.g. say you only took a club length relief and assume if it is not relief I will just call it unplayable); there is a decision that says if you declare a ball unplayable and BEFORE playing your next shot, you discover it is a ground under repair, then you can proceed under relief. Once you hit the ball (under Rule 28) without clarifying you are proceeding under relief from ground under repair, you are stuck with the unplayable.

 

In the grand scheme of things, if you were the group in front of me, I would rather the four of you to assume the role of committee, quickly say "sure go ahead, save the course and take relief," and keep things moving. That one stroke probably matter won't much in whatever match you are playing. But everyone else one the course will appreciate your prudence.

 

In my post I was not suggesting that anyone could waive a rule of golf.  Instituting an authorized local rule as allowed by Rule 33-8 or Appendix I is not a breach of 1-3.  Making up one's own rules would be a possible breach.

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