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Should Tour Pros Call Out Other Pros for Slow Play? - Page 2

Poll Results: Should Tour Pros Call Out Other Pros for Slow Play?

 
  • 65% (15)
    Yes
  • 34% (8)
    No
23 Total Votes  
post #19 of 72

There have always been slow players and fast players.   People have different inner clocks.   If a ton of money and a career is riding on a game, then everybody ought to be allowed to take their time, within limits, instead of -- for example -- being limited to 45 seconds to address and strike the ball.

 

Slow play can be gamesmanship.  Good example are baseball pitchers on the mound, who are not only psyching themselves up for a good pitch but psyching out the batter. Part of the game, man, get used to it.   If I were playing with would-be Tigers, I'd look for any advantage I could get, right down to rattling them with bad jokes to pacing out the distance to the hole and waggling like a young Sergio.

 

I wonder.   How do our opinions on this correlate to our driving habits?   Me, I drive slow, and if someone comes up close behind me acting impatiently, I drop back farther from the car in front. :)

post #20 of 72
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ole_Tom_Morris View Post
 

Why?   At the Valero, these were pro golfers.   They didn't have dinner dates or appointments to keep 4 hours after they tee'd off on the first hole.  This was their day job,for which many of them were very well paid.  And often leasing/owning their own airplanes, they don't even have to get to the airport on time to make a flight Sunday evening!

 

Their job is to entertain fans, and watching a bunch of slow golfers is hardly entertaining.

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ole_Tom_Morris View Post
 

The pressure about slow play on tour comes from the need to fit a golf tournament into the time the TV network allotted for it. I don't have a lot of sympathy for that. Do you?

 

I disagree.

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ole_Tom_Morris View Post
 

As for TV viewers, how often does a football game not end on time?   Is there an upwelling of support for faster play on the football field? For pro baseball?

 

Yes, there is, actually. Just search the Internet

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ole_Tom_Morris View Post
 

There have always been slow players and fast players.

 

The problem is that today's "fast player" would have been considered slow in the 1950s.

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ole_Tom_Morris View Post
 

If a ton of money and a career is riding on a game, then everybody ought to be allowed to take their time, within limits, instead of -- for example -- being limited to 45 seconds to address and strike the ball.

 

45 seconds is already a huge "limit." I disagree that they should be given more time.

 

Heck, I think players should need to keep a running average of all non-tap-in shots of about 35 seconds, with a grace period for the first three to six holes. That's how I'd police it. Literally time everyone. If you play a shot quickly, great, it lowers your average. Need a little extra time? Okay.

 

Maybe give a player two free passes on his two worst times to account for troubling shots. Do the same for when a Rules Official is summoned.

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ole_Tom_Morris View Post
 

I'd look for any advantage I could get, right down to rattling them with bad jokes to pacing out the distance to the hole and waggling like a young Sergio.

 

And you'd be seen as a massive jerk.

post #21 of 72
I think it is tough luck for the guys who like to play quickly and who generally play better that way. People say we can't hurry up the slow players because it would put them off their game and cost them money, but the fast players don't get similar concessions to their natural rhythm. They just have to suck it up and manage their frustration as best they can.
post #22 of 72
Quote:
Originally Posted by tmac20 View Post

Amateurs tend to imitate what tour pros do, so I don't think you can separate the two categories. I see a lot of people doing the Dufner waggles, Keegan's spinning club routine, walking around the green twice to read their putt, etc. If the pros have a 45 second practice routine, some amateurs will copy them.

I hate to sound sexist but another huge reason why amateur play is so slow is because slow groups, especially ladies, do not allow faster groups to play through. Only one time has a group of ladies let me play through as a twosome, and it's probably because there was a man in their group that convinced them. I'm not saying all ladies do this, but men tend to be more generous on this etiquette.

I don't know how typical it is because very few ladies play around here but the one and only time I ever experienced anybody acting really pissed because we were playing through happened to be a VERY SLOW foursome of ladies.

 

A lady in our group (and excellent golfer) said she was going to ask them if we could play through. When she returned she told us to thank them as we passed "because they weren't too happy about letting us play through."

 

As we passed them (and thanked them) they simply stood there glaring at us like we were criminals and never said a word. Weird!!!! We were out of their way in a couple of minutes and when I looked across at them 4 holes later they were still on the same hole.

post #23 of 72

My experience is amateur ladies are rarely if ever slow. Big reason is they don't hit it very far so they tend to keep the ball in play. They also usually don't have lengthy pre-shot routines and they don't mess around on the greens. If I get stuck behind slow golfers more often than not it's a younger male (20's-30's) hitting balls all over the course.

post #24 of 72

Slow Play is painful for the viewer  but rewarding for the network- they can sell a few more commercials.

 

Until they (The tour, TV & players themselves) start to take things seriously this will go on for years.

 

The players need to, not only be reminded but shot penalized right away, Including guys like Tiger who is also very slow.

The players need to call out players, not necessarily during the round but not be afraid of hurting peoples feelings

 

The tour needs to enforce rules that are in place, fining a multimillionaire $10-20K is nothing.

post #25 of 72

I rarely notice it watching pro golf unless they point it out. A lot of what they air has already happened and was edited down unless they are following the marquee group. The recaps shown tend to be highlights and showing people in trouble. Sure Kevin Na is basket case but he's not high enough on the leaderboard to get a lot of AT most weeks.

post #26 of 72
Quote:
Originally Posted by tmac20 View Post

I hate to sound sexist but another huge reason why amateur play is so slow is because slow groups, especially ladies, do not allow faster groups to play through. Only one time has a group of ladies let me play through as a twosome, and it's probably because there was a man in their group that convinced them. I'm not saying all ladies do this, but men tend to be more generous on this etiquette.

Unfortunately, I think courses burned themselves on this point, but let me start by saying, that yes that is a sexist comment ;). I marvel at courses hiring rangers who buzz around the course, and occasionally go up to a group and say "play faster" - like that 15 second interaction will get them to change a lifetime of bad habits. More often than not, that group gets stressed out, and now, they miss shots, and get more pissed and stressed. What a ranger can do, however, is catch up to a group and say "the group behind you is in a hurry, next tee I will have them hit and play through." Keep the course moving. At least, as a ranger, forecaddie, on those tough holes for a group. I absolutely agree that a major issue is that no one plays through any more, and courses and clubs need to start communicating when and how to do it. There is that nifty saying "your position is not in front of the group behind, but behind the group in front." That's cute, but it is different from the mantra many of us grew up with: "let faster groups through." Who cares if you are keeping up with that five-hour foursome in front of you. Let that twosome behind you through (so they can go through the group in front of you).

 

As to ladies. Bear mind that Little Old Lady Golf is played different from Big Old Man Golf. It might look slow, but since they are only hitting the ball 100 yards, they are never more than 100 yards from the group in front. Big Old Man Golf often has nearly a hole open in front of them because, heck, they are driving every par 4 even though they haven't seen fairway all day, right? Stereotypes cut all ways.

post #27 of 72
Quote:
Originally Posted by Spitfisher View Post
 

Slow Play is painful for the viewer  but rewarding for the network- they can sell a few more commercials.

 

Until they (The tour, TV & players themselves) start to take things seriously this will go on for years.

 

The players need to, not only be reminded but shot penalized right away, Including guys like Tiger who is also very slow.

The players need to call out players, not necessarily during the round but not be afraid of hurting peoples feelings

 

The tour needs to enforce rules that are in place, fining a multimillionaire $10-20K is nothing.

I don't think television likes slow play.  For example on Saturday, NBC sent viewers back to Golf Channel for the end of the 3rd round and on Sunday, their entire prime time lineup got backed up because of slow play.  Golf ratings don't come close to prime time television so I don't see it as a win for the major networks.  Maybe if it was a Major they wouldn't mind, but no one is excited when the Valero open goes 30 minutes longer than it was supposed to.

post #28 of 72
Quote:
Originally Posted by JoePete View Post
 

 

 

As to ladies. Bear mind that Little Old Lady Golf is played different from Big Old Man Golf. It might look slow, but since they are only hitting the ball 100 yards, they are never more than 100 yards from the group in front. Big Old Man Golf often has nearly a hole open in front of them because, heck, they are driving every par 4 even though they haven't seen fairway all day, right? Stereotypes cut all ways.

This is a huge time waster and I see it often. There is a 317/333 yd par 4 at a course I play often. In two years I've never seen anyone drive the green. In fact I don't see many even hit within 50 yds of the green. But every time I am there I watch guys wait for the green to clear before hitting their usual poor drive.  Funny thing is because everyone tries kill it they usually duff one up to the 150. The other one is waiting for greens to clear on long par 5's. Let's see your drive was sub 250 now you think you're getting home in two with a 3w from over 275 out, yeah right.

post #29 of 72
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ole_Tom_Morris View Post

There have always been slow players and fast players.   People have different inner clocks.   If a ton of money and a career is riding on a game, then everybody ought to be allowed to take their time, within limits, instead of -- for example -- being limited to 45 seconds to address and strike the ball.

Says who? You?

I say they shouldn't. Playing under a certain pace is part of the game. If you can't handle it because of what's riding on your next shot then tough on you. The rules aren't any different for the pros.

Again, I want to hear pros calling each other out for slow play.
post #30 of 72

@Ole_Tom_Morris ,

 

I don't see why we should excuse them for slow play because of the money involved.  NFL and NBA plays are very complicated, but we don't give the offenses unlimited time to execute a play.  I would love to see the PGA and European Tour really enforce slow play rules.

post #31 of 72
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave2512 View Post
 

This is a huge time waster and I see it often. There is a 317/333 yd par 4 at a course I play often. In two years I've never seen anyone drive the green. In fact I don't see many even hit within 50 yds of the green. But every time I am there I watch guys wait for the green to clear before hitting their usual poor drive.  Funny thing is because everyone tries kill it they usually duff one up to the 150. The other one is waiting for greens to clear on long par 5's. Let's see your drive was sub 250 now you think you're getting home in two with a 3w from over 275 out, yeah right.


You've been following me around, haven't you? :-D

 

That sounds just like my game many times. Just because I hit a bad first shot doesn't mean I'm going to hit a bad second shot. I can just see me telling the guy on the green that I hit that I figured I was going to hit another bad shot.

post #32 of 72
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by MS256 View Post
 


You've been following me around, haven't you? :-D

 

That sounds just like my game many times. Just because I hit a bad first shot doesn't mean I'm going to hit a bad second shot. I can just see me telling the guy on the green that I hit that I figured I was going to hit another bad shot.

 

can you hit a 3w 275?

or your driver 330?

 

so why are people (not you of course) waiting for the green to clear on a shot that long?

post #33 of 72
I have no problem with pros calling each other out for slow play. If speeding up rounds takes a bit of peer pressure, I'm all for it.
post #34 of 72

I voted yes.

 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ole_Tom_Morris View Post
 

There have always been slow players and fast players.   People have different inner clocks.   If a ton of money and a career is riding on a game, then everybody ought to be allowed to take their time, within limits, instead of -- for example -- being limited to 45 seconds to address and strike the ball.

 

You have to come up with some time designation otherwise some golfers will take advantage of it.

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ole_Tom_Morris View Post
 

 

If I were playing with would-be Tigers, I'd look for any advantage I could get, right down to rattling them with bad jokes to pacing out the distance to the hole and waggling like a young Sergio.

 

That might be "okay" in match play but pros are playing against the field for the vast majority of tournaments. You can't "rattle" someone playing in the group ahead of you. All that stuff is going to do is give you a bad reputation, which would influence your marketability with sponsors. 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Spitfisher View Post
 

Slow Play is painful for the viewer  but rewarding for the network- they can sell a few more commercials.

 

The major networks don't go over their 3 hour time slot. If the tournament isn't done, they switch the coverage the TGC.

post #35 of 72
Quote:
Originally Posted by colin007 View Post
 

 

can you hit a 3w 275?

 

or your driver 330?

 

so why are people (not you of course) waiting for the green to clear on a shot that long?


(A) I better wait.

 

(B) On an airport runway.

 

(C) I think waiting when it's totally out of reach is stupid too. That said, nobody likes to have balls coming in even 10 or 15 yards short when they are trying to putt. If there is even a slight chance of getting there I'm waiting.

 

Last year there was a guy on our team that hadn't hit a ball over 250 all day when we came to an uphill 290 yard hole. The team captain (in a hurry) told him to go ahead and hit. He said "are you sure?" Then he hit the ball on the green and right between the guy's legs that was getting ready to putt.

 

Needless to say he was not a happy camper.

post #36 of 72
Quote:
Originally Posted by colin007 View Post
 

 

can you hit a 3w 275?

or your driver 330?

 

so why are people (not you of course) waiting for the green to clear on a shot that long?

I'm with MS on this but, so what if they do?  How much can this possibly slow your round down?  2 or 3 minutes max.

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