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How do you get into the low 80's from roughly the high 80's and low 90's? - Page 8

post #127 of 179
Quote:
Originally Posted by rehmwa View Post
 

But note that this is thread that says - get from high 80's to low 80's, so I'd be advocating the 'lay up' for someone at this level - or equivalent at targetting and ball striking

 

Laying up is almost never the best option if the goal is to shoot the lowest score.

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by rehmwa View Post
 
  • shooting in the mid 80's - Intermediate - Lay up for an easier 3rd approach shot

 

A 100-yard shot is likely not "easier" than a 30-yard shot.

 
Quote:
Originally Posted by rehmwa View Post
 
  • I'm a LOT better with a short iron or wedge in my hand than I am with that fairway wood - it's worth the extra shot for the benefit

 

That's not what you're saying, though. In laying up you need to play a 120-yard and a 100-yard shot. In going for it you make one full swing and one from much closer. The comparison is not "short iron versus fairway wood" - it's TWO short irons versus a fairway wood and a short game shot.

 
Quote:
Originally Posted by rehmwa View Post
 
  • low 80's and better - Decent player - I have no issue to go for the green in 2, but if there are a lot of hazards around the green, laying up is a great option to think about

 

It goes without saying (nearly) that the "lay up or go for it" discussion is largely based on the assumption that there's not a lot of trouble like water, etc. around the greens.

post #128 of 179

Shucks Erik - if it's wide open, I'd just go for it then.

 

I like to hit that shot.  My misses still give me, at worst, a long chip.  And I might hit it well and then can putt for eagle.

 

that's more fun.

 

 

 

 

240 vs. 120-yard and a 100-yard shot.

 

if you are prone to shanking and duffing on a regular basis, then I'd rather attempt two shots than three.....   ; )

 

best bet then is to stop shanking

post #129 of 179
Quote:
Originally Posted by rehmwa View Post
 

Shucks Erik - if it's wide open, I'd just go for it then.

 

Good. :) You should. And unless OB or water lurk, or the super thickest trees in the world… you should go for it even if it's not wide open. People over-estimate the impact of "rough" and the value in "laying up."

post #130 of 179
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by rehmwa View Post
 

Shucks Eric - if it's wide open, I'd just go for it then.

 

I like to hit that shot.  My misses still give me, at worst, a long chip.  And I might hit it well and then can putt for eagle.

 

that's more fun.

 

I'd also love to be in a position where wide open to me is a 30 yard wide target region from 150 yards. :-)

 

That would be really nice!

post #131 of 179
Quote:
Originally Posted by iacas View Post
 

 

Good. :) You should. And unless OB or water lurk, or the super thickest trees in the world… you should go for it even if it's not wide open. People over-estimate the impact of "rough" and the value in "laying up."

 

 

I like this - it's more along the lines of my personal thinking.

 

I was really trying to phrase the two positions in such a way that people could 'get' each other.

Still, I've had a lot of fun lately playing with layups - I'm learning a lot about my iron play and gaining confidence.  But, I believe every single layup has all ended up with par.  Whereas 'going for it' has yield a few birdies and an eagle so far......but I'm not really the guy they are talking about in the thread.

 

 

My last par 5 layup - Good drive, but I was 280 out - kinda tight right at the green.  My 3w is my 250-260 club......So i hit 6i to about 90.  Felt great.  I dorked my approach to the back of the green so had 2 putts to par.  I'd still play that the same.  Maybe 7i next time for a comfy GW...  Hitting longer brought the trees in play...  I stand by that, even though 'leaning' on the 3w would have been more 'fun' for me.

post #132 of 179
Quote:
Originally Posted by rehmwa View Post

 

My last par 5 layup - Good drive, but I was 280 out - kinda tight right at the green.  My 3w is my 250-260 club......So i hit 6i to about 90.  Felt great.  I dorked my approach to the back of the green so had 2 putts to par.  I'd still play that the same.  Maybe 7i next time for a comfy GW...  Hitting longer brought the trees in play...  I stand by that, even though 'leaning' on the 3w would have been more 'fun' for me.

 

For me, the go for versus lay up strategy is different if I need a 3w to get there.  Looks like my distances are similar to yours, maybe a touch shorter.  So, if the pin is 280 and the front of the green is 260, I need a 3w to get to or near the front of the green.  I'm only going for it if it's wide open and I'm striking the ball well with the long clubs that day.  

 

However, what I'd argue is that while there is a really significant difference in risk of putting one in a terrible place between 3w and shorter clubs, there's not that much difference in risk between 2/3h and 6i.  So if the front of the green is 260 away, I'd argue that hitting a hybrid or 3i is a better play than a 6i.  My contention is that the difference in risk between 2h and 6i isn't that much, but the expected score from 55 yards after a decent or better 2h shot is significantly lower than the expected score from 100 yards after a 6i.  I'm missing the green or giving myself a very long putt with a full-ish SW much more often than I am with a partial 60˚, and I'm giving myself a makable birdie putt much more often with the partial 60˚ too.

post #133 of 179

The guaranteed method to go from a 90 average to an 80 average:  only play 16 holes.  :smartass:

 

 

Seriously though, lots of good advice here.  I have recently adopted a "no double bogeys" philosophy.  I play mostly to the fat parts of the course unless there is a good reason not to.  From the tee, I'll account for where my likely miss is going to be and club/aim accordingly.  For example, my driver is either going to miss short right or long left (when my path starts getting too far left).  So if I can't eliminate one side of the hole, I'll hit 3-wood (which usually only misses left).  If I do get into trouble, I think about all of the things that could lead to double bogey--and I don't do any of those things.  Usually that means finding the safest line that gets me in the 100-160 yard range so I can hit the green and have a shot at par.

 

And I agree with the punch shots.  I'm pretty good hitting out of trees, and that really helps.

post #134 of 179
Quote:
Originally Posted by k-troop View Post

 

And I agree with the punch shots.  I'm pretty good hitting out of trees, and that really helps.

 

Ha.  I'm pretty good with the punch shot too.  I'd like to be able to say it's not because I've had SO much practice doing it on the course...

post #135 of 179

Off course a 30 yard shot is easier than a 100 yard one.

But the shot before is what i'm talking about.

To hit it 200 to get to 30 yards or probably a 7 iron to get to 100 yards.

 

Look if a high 80 player so lets say a hdc 18 wants to get lower the smart way

is not to make mistakes and those happen most with 3 woods of the deck or with drivers off the tee.

 

And ball striking can be good for a hdc 9 but never ever will he hit 18 greens what he was saying.

 

He took my advise to personal. i'm sure loads off players will benefit my advise.

 

It goes the other way as well i can easily hit driver on a short hole just because the landing place is 

wider on that part. 

post #136 of 179
Quote:
Originally Posted by tomvk77 View Post
 

Off course a 30 yard shot is easier than a 100 yard one.

But the shot before is what i'm talking about.

To hit it 200 to get to 30 yards or probably a 7 iron to get to 100 yards.

 

Look if a high 80 player so lets say a hdc 18 wants to get lower the smart way

is not to make mistakes and those happen most with 3 woods of the deck or with drivers off the tee.

 

I understand that.  What I'm saying is that I think that, in general, the average 89 player loses fewer strokes from the extra risk of hitting 2h to 30 versus 8i to 100 yards than he gains from hitting the next shot from 30 yards instead of from 100 – barring hole layouts that obviously make hitting closer a dumb play.  So if the layout allows, the lower expected score is to hit 2h close and then pitch and putt instead of hitting 8i to 100 yards and then hitting a full SW.  It's not smart golf to lay up if you're raising your expected score by doing so.

post #137 of 179

I always thought being a better player isn't hitting 300 yds or being able to create insane backspin on greens, but to minimize mistakes and sink putts. A 280 yd drive right down the middle is 1 stroke just like a 2 ft putt. I have played with a 60 year old man who shot 1 or 2 over par by simply just not messing up. On a par 3 165, he would hit, putt, putt. Nothing fancy. I've never been the one to think insane shots are the secret to golf. Playing the course as it is (not over thinking it or making it harder than it needs to be) and not taking drops by staying out of hazards or loosing balls. But then again, I'm still in the mid 90's. I have yet to break 90 although I have had the opportunity a few times lately. Gonna do it tomorrow!!!

post #138 of 179

Here's a 'formula'. You have to have at least two strengths to shoot in mid-low 80s, e.g. driving + mid-irons or short irons + putting or even chipping + putting etc. Find a good combo and groove the crap out of it. Forget or just 'manage' the rest of it. Now from 80s to high seventies; well I am not sure if the formula is sufficient but I think you need a third strength or you have to really start blunting down weaknesses. I have a comfortable tee ball + good hybrid game. Irons are luke warm or cold and am a horrible chipper/wedger (I texas wedge a lot and actually just bought the infamous chipper to 'manage' short game). As long as I am plying 6300 yards max. low-mid 80s work out ok once I get into season.        

post #139 of 179
Quote:
Originally Posted by GolfLug View Post
 

Here's a 'formula'. You have to have at least two strengths to shoot in mid-low 80s, e.g. driving + mid-irons or short irons + putting or even chipping + putting etc. Find a good combo and groove the crap out of it. Forget or just 'manage' the rest of it. Now from 80s to high seventies; well I am not sure if the formula is sufficient but I think you need a third strength or you have to really start blunting down weaknesses. I have a comfortable tee ball + good hybrid game. Irons are luke warm or cold and am a horrible chipper/wedger (I texas wedge a lot and actually just bought the infamous chipper to 'manage' short game). As long as I am plying 6300 yards max. low-mid 80s work out ok once I get into season.        

 

I think though if you're only shooting 80s then your ballstriking in general and therefore driving+midirons + short irons will not be up to the standard of shooting 70s really. As long as you're taking <36 putts your short game isn't short siding your scoring as much as you probably think. And sounds like the pitching video in this site would help you tremendously (i know it has saved me a few shots a round within 2 days so practicing this motion) ....  Quickie Pitching Video - Golf Pitch Shot Technique 

 

Also note to self that i will video my pitching next time i'm out and put it on  My Swing (FooFader) 

post #140 of 179

When I first started playing I shot in the mid to low 80's. So wtf. I have no idea what it's like to shoot 90's golf. I'm serious!

 

Damn, I can't imagining boogieing that many holes. Whoa, that's 18 or greater over par on a 72 par layout!!! I'm use to thinking birdies. Always thinking birdies. When I get in danger of boogie I get damn damn f'ing pissed off. 

 

Anyway, practice practice practice. Confidence is so damn contagious. When you feel confident that you drive the ball very well it will translate thru the green when it comes to ball striking or vise versa. When you feel confident with your putting (NO THREE PUTTS damnit) it translates to your pitch shots, chips shots and sand shots. Confidence!

post #141 of 179
Quote:
Originally Posted by mdl View Post
 

I understand that.  What I'm saying is that I think that, in general, the average 89 player loses fewer strokes from the extra risk of hitting 2h to 30 versus 8i to 100 yards than he gains from hitting the next shot from 30 yards instead of from 100 – barring hole layouts that obviously make hitting closer a dumb play.

 

Bingo.

 

The average 80s golfer (i.e. between the two ranges being discussed here) hits only about 50% of his greens from 100 yards. He hits 75% from 40 yards. His average score from 100 yards is almost 3.5 (plus the stroke it took to get there). From 40 yards it's just under 3.

 

The gains in getting near the green in regulation more than offset, typically, the fact that it's a tougher shot to hit initially (to get to the 40 yard mark from 200 yards out).

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by dbrock504 View Post
 

I always thought being a better player isn't hitting 300 yds or being able to create insane backspin on greens, but to minimize mistakes and sink putts.

 

That's fairly traditional thinking that we now know is incorrect. Putting is not a good way to shoot lower scores - ball striking is the key.

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by dbrock504 View Post
 

A 280 yd drive right down the middle is 1 stroke just like a 2 ft putt.

 

Yes, but how often do you miss a two-foot putt? How often do you hit a 280-yard drive right down the middle? A one-inch putt is still a stroke, too.

 
Quote:
Originally Posted by dbrock504 View Post
 

On a par 3 165, he would hit, putt, putt. Nothing fancy.

 

Exactly - he'd par because he hit the green.

 

BTW, many of these stats and things brought to you by @LowScoreWins.

post #142 of 179
Quote:
Originally Posted by iacas View Post
 

 

Bingo.

 

The average 80s golfer (i.e. between the two ranges being discussed here) hits only about 50% of his greens from 100 yards. He hits 75% from 40 yards. His average score from 100 yards is almost 3.5 (plus the stroke it took to get there). From 40 yards it's just under 3.

 

The gains in getting near the green in regulation more than offset, typically, the fact that it's a tougher shot to hit initially (to get to the 40 yard mark from 200 yards out).

 

 

That's fairly traditional thinking that we now know is incorrect. Putting is not a good way to shoot lower scores - ball striking is the key.

 

 

Yes, but how often do you miss a two-foot putt? How often do you hit a 280-yard drive right down the middle? A one-inch putt is still a stroke, too.

 

 

Exactly - he'd par because he hit the green.

 

BTW, many of these stats and things brought to you by @LowScoreWins.


Haha. Now you're just nit picking. You knew what I meant on the putting comment. My ball striking is undoubtably the best part of my game (irons, wedges, hybrids). That stat about 50% of the time hitting the green at 100 yds is BS I don't care what your stats tell me. I hit almost every single green I face 150 and in and I am a mid 90's player. Why? Because I have a poor mental game, and my tee box presence is horrid. I have to take about 8 drops per round right now off the tee (just got a new driver though ;) ). I'm taking a new approach to all of that and hopefully it improves, but the point is, you can't tell me an 80's player only hits a green 50% of the time only being 100 yds out. Not buying. There are SO many aspects to this beautiful game besides ball contact. There's no way you can argue that. Also, when I have <36 putts, my score is dramatically better than when I live in "3-putt-land", so that's also something I can't see as being an argued topic. Everyone's game is different however and everyone seems to take a different approach in how they play it...
If could limit my lost balls off the tee box, I would be an immediate low-mid 80's player. That's why I believe limiting mistakes #1. It's not about how great you play, but rather how bad you don't! (unless you're going for a green jacket) That's how I see it anyways.

post #143 of 179

The again, you seem to be way more qualified than myself. Maybe that's why I still suck after 4 years!

post #144 of 179
Quote:
Originally Posted by dbrock504 View Post

The again, you seem to be way more qualified than myself. Maybe that's why I still suck after 4 years!

You think?? Maybe you should listen to what he says.
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