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How do you get into the low 80's from roughly the high 80's and low 90's? - Page 2

post #19 of 179
Quote:
Originally Posted by sopel10 View Post
 

I agree that it's good to practice recovery shots, but in this case, I just don't see this saving him 5-6 strokes a round.

 

It absolutely won't save that many strokes.  I wasn't putting forth a complete solution.  The simple fact is you need to everything that has been mentioned so far to get into the single digits and stay there.  I was simply adding some focus to something that doesn't often get any spotlight.

 

And punch shots are a tool that every mid-high handicap should have.  They are the ones MOST likely to need it multiple times per round.  Like I said I'm not advocating hero shots, I'm talking about getting out of trouble with one shot so you can continue the march to the green.

 

[bad drive] + [reasonable punch] + [reasonable iron] + [2 putts] == bogey

or

[bad drive] + [reasonable punch] + [missed green with iron] + chip + [2 putts] == double bogey

 

I'm willing to bet either of those would be preferable to pinball in the trees followed by carding a snowman.  Something I witness from mid-high cappers all the time.

post #20 of 179
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lihu View Post
 

So, how did you do it? Or how do you think you would do it? Is it more accurate tee and approach shots? Killer short game?

With enough practice anyone can get themselves down to around a 10. The question is how far below can they go from there. If you are going to be practicing might as well be forming good habits and not ingraining the bad ones. Find a pro, and work with them. Be prepared to take one step back to go two steps forward. Again, if all you want to do is get yourself to a 10 handicap or so, then just practice, practice, practice, you will make whatever swing you have consistent enough. But if it is not a fundamentally sound swing, you are not going to get much lower. Whereas for the same time invested, you can get yourself down to a 10 but also set yourself up for continuing to improve. There is no substitute for a decent pro watching your swing. Bonus points for anyone that works with video (but most do these days). That can be a big help.

post #21 of 179

I'm with @David in FL .  Just keep grinding improving your ball striking.  I know for me the difference between high 80s days and low 80s days is a combination of tee shots and putting. I'm a pretty bad putter for my HC, so that can kill rounds for me.  But the biggest difference really is tee shots.  More drivers and 3ws in the fairway and teeing off with 3i or 2h when the hole allows -- without forcing an overly long, read low percentage, approach.  If I put up an 88 or a 90, it's usually because I lost a drive or two and put 3-4 more in jail.  If I play solid but not spectacular for the rest of the holes, keeping the tee shot in play and giving myself reasonable approaches even if from the rough, those big misses off the tee turn an 82 into an 89.

Quote:
Originally Posted by cipher View Post
 

30% GIR and 30% U&D gives 81 with no penalties, 3 putts, or extra chunk shots to get on the green.  I would just look at it from the standpoint of eliminate the penalty shots and being on the green every time minimum with two putts for bogey.   

 

Yup.  You don't need to play super spectacular to play in the low 80s (believe me, I shoot low 80s pretty regularly and I've never played spectacularly).  The killer is the major misses off the tee.  If you put one OB, add 2 strokes (assuming you hit a decent 2nd tee shot, more if not!).  Then put another three in jail where the high percentage out gives you a long approach with a relatively low percentage for hitting the green from there.  Add 5 strokes (two doubles and one "saved" bogey).  Add one three putt and one bad mishit approach and you've just turned an 81 into a 90 with only one bad iron shot.

post #22 of 179
"Pinball on the trees", been there, done that, aka: treebound, but I'm working on it.
post #23 of 179

golfdad summed it up pretty well.    Play smarter and stop wasting those stupid strokes that can be avoided.   Play to the fat of the greens and stop trying for the hero shots whether it be the flop from the short side of the green that causes a triple bogey or going for the miracle recovery from far away from the green.    Play the percentages and this alone will shave several strokes.    Avoiding the duffs never hurts.........

post #24 of 179

Gotta get the trees to bounce your ball closer to the hole. Almost every time I make worse than a bogey it's because I fail to get a favorable tree bounce.

post #25 of 179

Play straight up against people that are a lot better than you are...for money...every single day. You will either get better or go broke and have to quit.

 

(Only half joking).

post #26 of 179
Quote:
Gotta get the trees to bounce your ball closer to the hole. Almost every time I make worse than a bogey it's because I fail to get a favorable tree bounce.

 

LOL,This ^^^^^ helps.

 

One a more serious note, my scoring fluctuates a lot between high 80s and low 80s. The days that I can shoot in the low 80s is when I'm limiting penalty strokes and I'm trusting my swing. I'm not thinking about mechanics I'm just playing. All of the other advice is on this thread is really good.

post #27 of 179
Thread Starter 

I really appreciate all the great answers, and will take a look at all my current faults.

 

Getting more insight on all the things you did or are planning on doing really helps me understand what it takes.

 

I am also anxiously awaiting the book from Dave and Erik: http://thesandtrap.com/t/71214/lowest-score-wins-a-first-of-its-kind-golf-book-for-anyone-who-wants-to-lower-their-score

post #28 of 179
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lihu View Post
 

I am also anxiously awaiting the book from Dave and Erik: http://thesandtrap.com/t/71214/lowest-score-wins-a-first-of-its-kind-golf-book-for-anyone-who-wants-to-lower-their-score

 

And the first section of the book: hit it better. :-)

post #29 of 179
I've been on this road for the past year or so. I will list the factors starting at the tee:

1. Play the right tees. For me, that means I have options, I can hit a hybrid or a wood on many holes. If you are using the driver 14 times, you should probably move up. (Alternatively, if ego won't allow it, take lessons and unlock the distance)
2. Dependable tee shot. By that I mean something that goes about the same distance almost every time. By that I mean if your normal shot is 220, you shouldn't have tops that go 50 yards, or sky balls that go 140. Also, no two way miss.
3. You can live with a penalty shot, but try to make them water hazards....out of bounds being penalty and distance will destroy you.
4. My approaches tend to short irons. 6 iron at worst. Missing left or right is bad, but what is more important is having a consistent length. If you miss-hit, flag in the back, that means you are right on the front.
5. Again with approaches, it would be best to have a one way miss.
6. Short game: no duffs and no blades. Ever.
7. Putting: pretty obvious, limit 3 putts.

This is what has worked for me. There are many ways to play this game, though.
post #30 of 179

Better ball striking will get you there quicker than anything else, Also if you can't keep the driver on the fairway or in reasonable play use a 3 wood.

post #31 of 179

1. So far, I have found Mark Broadie's Every Shot Counts to be interesting, but not very actionable.

 

2. I hope that the writing is coming along well on Lowest Score Wins, because I am looking forward to seeing what it has to offer.

 

3. If you want to track basic stats, Lucius Riccio published an article in Golf Digest in 2006 that I found pretty helpful ("What it takes to break 80: a statistical road map for giving yourself a putt for 79"). GIRs are the single most important of the traditional statistics. According to "Riccio's Rule" your score = 95 - 2 * GIR. As a heuristic, he wrote, "'Three greens break 90, eight greens break 80, and 13 greens break 70.' That prediction is fairly accurate for any single round, and within one stroke about 90 percent of the time when you take the average of four or more rounds." (The caveat is that blowup holes throw all statistical models off--if you card a 12 for any hole they all fail.) Also, because there is more than one way to reach 79, he provided the following table showing how many putts you could take based on your number of GIRs and still card a 79.

 

      GIRs                       4             5             6             7             8             9           10           11           12           13

      Putts                     26           28           29           30           32           33           34           36           37           38

 

(His updated and more accurate model, "Riccio's Revised Rule" is that your score = 58 - 4/3 * GIRs + putts.)

 

4. If you want to know how different aspects of your game compares to people of a specific handicap, you could use http://shotbyshot.com/. Broadie is in the news these days, but Peter Sanders has used the mathematical equivalent of "strokes gained" for putting and long game before it had that name. He is the statistical consultant for Zack Johnson and other tour players. After you enter a few rounds it will tell you where your deficiencies are.

 

Sorry for the long post.

post #32 of 179
Quote:
Originally Posted by SCC4380 View Post
 

he provided the following table showing how many putts you could take based on your number of GIRs and still card a 79.

 

      GIRs                       4             5             6             7             8             9           10           11           12           13

      Putts                     26           28           29           30           32           33           34           36           37           38

 

(His updated and more accurate model, "Riccio's Revised Rule" is that your score = 58 - 4/3 * GIRs + putts.)

 

And this explains why I still rarely break 80.  I've averaged 6 GIR over my last 20 rounds, so if I were a good putter you'd think I'd have a great chance to break 80 at least on the best 1/3 of my ball striking days (giving me 8+ GIR).  Unfortunately over that same time period I've averaged 34.2 putts, which means I only break 80 when I'm having a solidly above average ball striking day and a way above average putting day (since my lowest putt rounds tend to come on days when I'm not hitting many greens, my average putts per GIR is 2.1).

post #33 of 179

 

 

OP, I'd like to recommend a book by Dr Rick Jensen who teaches you how to practice with a purpose, how to identify your weaknesses, and how to improve your game.  It's kind of similar to what you might read in a Bob Rotella book.   You probably can find a used on Amazon or Ebay.

post #34 of 179
Quote:
Originally Posted by mdl View Post

And this explains why I still rarely break 80.  I've averaged 6 GIR over my last 20 rounds, so if I were a good putter you'd think I'd have a great chance to break 80 at least on the best 1/3 of my ball striking days (giving me 8+ GIR).  Unfortunately over that same time period I've averaged 34.2 putts, which means I only break 80 when I'm having a solidly above average ball striking day and a way above average putting day (since my lowest putt rounds tend to come on days when I'm not hitting many greens, my average putts per GIR is 2.1).

Doesn't this actually relate more to your short game as opposed to the number of putts? Can't expect to get up and down if you are not getting yourself to within a few feet.
post #35 of 179

I got a better swing. I hit the ball straighter (a few more greens in regulation) and make better contact (no wasted shots hit super fat or cold topped). Also = no lost balls, no OB, no water.

 

The result is that I take about ten fewer short shots per round. About the same number of long shots, about same number of putts, but half the number of short shots, because I have a better swing. Some of the ten fewer short shots is from getting more GIR, some for getting the ball on the green with ONE short shot, not two.

 

I'm not too bad at chipping, either.

post #36 of 179
It's not easy to get into the single digits but what got me from a 12 down to a 5 was focussing on 2 things.

1) Getting off the tee safe. It doesn't always need to land in the fairway or be crushed 300 yards...you just can't be losing strokes by hitting OB or in jail under a tree.

2) You need to be able to hit putts. Focus on 6 footers, this is where par saves are made from. Yes, that's easier said than done but if you start making a few putts to save pars your confidence increases. If you putt with confidence you will make more putts
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