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TaylorMade Proposes 15 Inch holes! - Page 2

Poll Results: Would you be for a 15" cup as an option for golfers?

Poll expired: Apr 13, 2014  
  • 15% (7)
    Dedicated 15" cup courses. (Absolutely)
  • 22% (10)
    Alternate days. (Sometimes)
  • 20% (9)
    Maybe for April fools. (Rarely)
  • 40% (18)
    I'll play persimmons 'till the day I die. (Never)
44 Total Votes  
post #19 of 165

I don't like the idea at all. The cup is fine where it is now. As already stated, it's the slices into the trees, chunked irons, and skulled chip shots that plague people the most.

post #20 of 165
Quote:
Originally Posted by anthony View Post
 

I don't like the idea at all. The cup is fine where it is now. As already stated, it's the slices into the trees, chunked irons, and skulled chip shots that plague people the most.

 

How many beginners have you watched chip and putt? :)

 

If it's gonna take them six shots to get near the green, I'd prefer it not take them another six to cover the last 40 feet. :)

 

I like the big holes. I won't play them except occasionally in a special event or something, but beginners, kids, etc. should lap it up.

post #21 of 165

Happy Gilmore would have had to yell "IS THIS HOLE REGULATION SIZE OR WHAT!"

post #22 of 165

Well the poll wasn't there when I made my original comment but I ended up voting for the "April Fools" choice.

 

I'm sticking with the fact that somebody besides me will be changing the holes because I won't be working there anymore.

(And I wish whoever takes my place good luck).

post #23 of 165

When I saw it featured on GC they interviewed some of the people that played there. They claimed it helped them enjoy the game more and it definitely made it easier for them. But they were exactly the types I figured could benefit from it. I assumed they had tried everything else because the course was also short, I think it was a par 32. Each green had two hole, standard and the big one. My guess is even it became an option few would do it. For the same reasons people play from tees too long for them. The mentality for many seems to be making the game harder than necessary not easier.

post #24 of 165
Quote:
Originally Posted by iacas View Post
 

 

How many beginners have you watched chip and putt? :)

 

If it's gonna take them six shots to get near the green, I'd prefer it not take them another six to cover the last 40 feet. :)

 

I like the big holes. I won't play them except occasionally in a special event or something, but beginners, kids, etc. should lap it up.

 

As someone who takes six shots to get near the green, I can tell you that after a couple putts -- successful or not -- I'm moving on.

 

I think the big holes would be fun on occasion... if for no other reason than you can be out, playing "golf" and it's just not so serious.

post #25 of 165
I think it's a fun idea, and would definitely try out a round with the large holes.
post #26 of 165

I'd be most into it upping my chances for a HIO or holing out the approach.

post #27 of 165

I was thinking about this today when I was talking with the mother of one of my son's friends about getting the kids interested in golf.  This mom and my wife are beginners, whereas the other dad and I have been playing since we were kids.

 

One of the challenges with getting kids and new adults into the game is how damn tough the sport is.  I would LOVE to see a golf course in the area that is specifically designed for kids and new golfers: short holes (e.g. 275-yard Par 4s), with this 15" cups, wide open with no elevated greens.  

 

Think about how much more fun it would be for everyone involved: if you're there, you can't be upset at the pace of play.  The courses are easy so it's about learning the game and enjoying time with your friends and family.  The price can be set accordingly.

 

And then you can go tackle the "real" golf courses.

post #28 of 165
Quote:
That's what she said?

 

LOLOL

 

I could still find a way to miss a 6-foot put on that bad boy.

post #29 of 165
I don't think bigger holes are the answer, but why not have a beginners guidelines that say if you get it within a certain number of inches to the hole, it's considered in? Then everyone can play the same course and people who are getting used to it have something different they do than what other people might be doing.

There is nothing stopping that, and I would encourage it. One of the things I don't like about golf is the intimidation factor for newer golfers. We should be encouraging people, not making them feel like they are a burden. Not that a lot of people do that, but I've played with so many people who seem sheepish about how they play or are obviously nervous when there is no reason to be.

I think there are a lot of ideas that can be done right next to regular golf that no one should complain about. The more the merrier.
post #30 of 165
Quote:
Originally Posted by anthony View Post
 

I don't like the idea at all. The cup is fine where it is now. As already stated, it's the slices into the trees, chunked irons, and skulled chip shots that plague people the most.

 

Which is why I said to put them on a short beginners par 3 course and then publicize it as such.  Then the risk of long slices and the like is greatly reduced.  

 

I just can't see any full course with any pretensions of being a "championship" layout cutting 15" holes in their greens unless someone like TaylorMade is paying a big premium for it.

post #31 of 165
Quote:
Originally Posted by MS256 View Post
 

At our course changing the holes when it's wet (like this morning) is a b&%$#. Only half of the plug (at best) wants to come out of the hole with the other half either still holding in the bottom by suction or won't break loose from the bottom.

 

Then the water fills in and the other half simply keeps slipping out of the puller. If you finally get it done if the plug doesn't perfectly fit the depth of the old hole and you try to pull it back out to add some sand there is so much water that the plug slips and doesn't come back out of the ground, no matter what you try. 

 

Sometimes the only option is to dig the bottom half of the plug out of the new hole with a pocket knife and carry it over to the old hole a handful at a time. Lots of fun trying to work 6 inches below ground level on wet ground without putting indentations on the ground around the hole. It's not like you have the option of hitting a knee.

 

I imagine I absolutely wouldn't like turning something hard into something bordering on impossible. Instead of wrestling around with a cup sized mess I would be wrestling around with a 5 gallon bucket sized mess.

 

I figure at our course just about the time they go to 5 gallon bucket sized holes will be just about the time I find something more enjoyable to do.

 

 

Re: making indentations around the golf hole. Why not use some 1/2" plywood, buy a 4X8' sheet and cut into sizes that allow you to kneel on them, No dents in the ground. This is what Finish concrete guys use to keep from making holes when working a slab. 

post #32 of 165
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hammer 4 View Post
 

 

 

Re: making indentations around the golf hole. Why not use some 1/2" plywood, buy a 4X8' sheet and cut into sizes that allow you to kneel on them, No dents in the ground. This is what Finish concrete guys use to keep from making holes when working a slab. 

 

I have considered that on very wet days but so far it doesn't seem worth the effort. I don't know if having boards in the truckster would be worth it and save time or not be worth it and cost time. I am probably done in the time it would take to go get the boards and it doesn't happen often enough to justify always carrying a couple of boards onto the green. 

 

Some holes are never a problem and some holes are. It depends on the composition of the dirt and how well it drains. There is a ladies green on one hole that was constructed of a different type of sand that is consistent to the bottom of the hole. Changing the hole on that green is a breeze. Only problem is that green is also the hardest green to keep moist enough to grow grass. Also much more vulnerable to winter kill.

 

On the most difficult greens the layer of greens mix isn't deep enough and a blue clay base holds the bottom of the plug like a vice. I truly can't even guess how hard it would be to make 15 inch holes on those greens but I do know that it wouldn't be a walk in the park. The weight of a 15 inch plug combined with the suction holding it in place would make it a very tough chore even if the greens mix went to the bottom of the hole so the bottom would break loose.  Then I can't envision the bottom of the plug breaking loose even remotely level across a 15 inch span.

 

The suggestion of rotating between 15 inch holes and regular holes also presents the problem of replacing a regular sized plug with a 15 inch plug and vice versa (and that's no small problem).

 

In short I think 15 inch holes would be a complete nightmare and I can't see it happening anywhere other than maybe at a very specialized beginner's course where maybe they leave the pin location permanent or semi-permanent.


Edited by MS256 - 4/5/14 at 8:46am
post #33 of 165

This whole idea just seems so bizarre that I thought it was an April Fools thing. I haven't ever run across anyone in the beginning circles of golf who said, "Gee, golf is great, but darn that hole is so small, I think the sport is not for me. If only I could have some larger object to shoot at, then it would be a sport I would pursue."  The discouraging and intimidating part of golf for people who are deciding whether to continue  with the sport is the full swing.

 

For people that can do the full swing ok, but can't putt for %$#@!- they still like golf (even if they hate putting). For people the can't do a full swing reliably but can putt great on the greens, they get discouraged with golf and don't come back. That's what I've seen, anyway.

 

It would be great to have beginner's courses where bad shots are less penal and the holes are oversized. That'd probably be pretty damn fun to take some beginner friends and the kids to once in a while. Something like a Top Golf, where it's as much social as it is sporting. Not sure there'd be enough market for that though. The whole goal of people would be to move up to the real courses, and guys don't like to feel like they are playing on "watered down" sissy courses. They'd feel the need to man up and play the same courses the big boys do. Hell, look at all the players who play from the back tees when they shouldn't. 


Edited by RandallT - 4/5/14 at 9:27am
post #34 of 165
Quote:
Originally Posted by RandallT View Post
 

This whole idea just seems so bizarre that I thought it was an April Fools thing. I haven't ever run across anyone in the beginning circles of golf who said, "Gee, golf is great, but darn that hole is so small, I think the sport is not for me. If only I could have some larger object to shoot at, then it would be a sport I would pursue."  The discouraging and intimidating part of golf for people who are deciding whether to continue  with the sport is the full swing.

 

For people that can do the full swing ok, but can't putt for %$#@!- they still like golf (even if they hate putting). For people the can't do a full swing reliably but can putt great on the greens, they get discouraged with golf and don't come back. That's what I've seen, anyway.

 

It would be great to have beginner's courses where bad shots are less penal and the holes are oversized. That'd probably be pretty damn fun to take some beginner friends and the kids to once in a while. Something like a Top Golf, where it's as much social as it is sporting. Not sure there'd be enough market for that though. The whole goal of people would be to move up to the real courses, and guys don't like to feel like they are playing on "watered down" sissy courses. They'd feel the need to man up and play the same courses the big boys do. Hell, look at all the players who play from the back tees when they shouldn't. 


It is bizarre, particularly to golfers that do not understand, nor have read why they possibly would suggest the use of them in the first place.  You see for the past 19 or so years we have been trending down in the number of golfers playing, we lost over 7million, almost a 1/3. Last year   in particular was down significantly- despite having close to 20% more " golfing days" nationally- due to unusual fair weather. Perhaps more disturbing is the class of players age 13-21 is at an all time low of participants and 22-35 is also down significantly.

 

The 15 inch hole idea ( and others)  is not being brought up for golfers, its for the non-golfers, range only golfers or people that may have been turned off before on golfs difficulty to learn and enjoy. The first Tee isn't working, lowering the price of rounds won't do it.

post #35 of 165
Quote:
Originally Posted by Spitfisher View Post
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by RandallT View Post
 

This whole idea just seems so bizarre that I thought it was an April Fools thing. I haven't ever run across anyone in the beginning circles of golf who said, "Gee, golf is great, but darn that hole is so small, I think the sport is not for me. If only I could have some larger object to shoot at, then it would be a sport I would pursue."  The discouraging and intimidating part of golf for people who are deciding whether to continue  with the sport is the full swing.

 

For people that can do the full swing ok, but can't putt for %$#@!- they still like golf (even if they hate putting). For people the can't do a full swing reliably but can putt great on the greens, they get discouraged with golf and don't come back. That's what I've seen, anyway.

 

It would be great to have beginner's courses where bad shots are less penal and the holes are oversized. That'd probably be pretty damn fun to take some beginner friends and the kids to once in a while. Something like a Top Golf, where it's as much social as it is sporting. Not sure there'd be enough market for that though. The whole goal of people would be to move up to the real courses, and guys don't like to feel like they are playing on "watered down" sissy courses. They'd feel the need to man up and play the same courses the big boys do. Hell, look at all the players who play from the back tees when they shouldn't. 


It is bizarre, particularly to golfers that do not understand, nor have read why they possibly would suggest the use of them in the first place.  You see for the past 19 or so years we have been trending down in the number of golfers playing, we lost over 7million, almost a 1/3. Last year   in particular was down significantly- despite having close to 20% more " golfing days" nationally- due to unusual fair weather. Perhaps more disturbing is the class of players age 13-21 is at an all time low of participants and 22-35 is also down significantly.

 

The 15 inch hole idea ( and others)  is not being brought up for golfers, its for the non-golfers, range only golfers or people that may have been turned off before on golfs difficulty to learn and enjoy. The first Tee isn't working, lowering the price of rounds won't do it.

 

And 15" holes aren't going to do it either.  They can try all the weird ideas they want, but I don't see that having much of an effect on the current trend.  People who aren't interested in golf at this time aren't any more likely to be interested in goofy golf.  The whole idea of the game just isn't catching their interest.  The way I see it, many of the potential young players wound up playing video games instead, then went on to college.  During and after college they are/were too busy and too broke to play golf, then they get married, start a family, and there isn't any golf in that scenario.  Maybe when they finally get to the empty nest stage, then golf becomes more attractive, but that's still a few years down the road for even the oldest of them.  

 

Nobody can really say where the game is headed.  It's slow now, but this may or may not be a temporary condition.  Eventually the game will stabilize, maybe even start a slow recovery, just like any other industry or activity facing a recession.  I certainly don't see it dying any time soon, and unlike some I don't see any need for panic measures like 15" golf holes.

post #36 of 165
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fourputt View Post
 

I certainly don't see it dying any time soon, and unlike some I don't see any need for panic measures like 15" golf holes.

 

That's part of your problem, though: you think a 15" hole is a "panic measure."

 

It simply a little bit more fun. It's frustrating to take six putts the first few times you play. Even beginners hit the ball in the air occasionally, enough that they aren't super frustrated by that part of the game (and those who can't, put the ball on a tee or whatever).

 

It's simply an attempt to get more people interested in the game. It's not a "panic measure." I don't see anything wrong with a course having a weekly "six hole league" for beginners where the rules are that they get to tee the ball up everywhere, throw it sideways out of a bunker, and putt to 15" holes.

 

The game is too hard for a lot of people. Now you and me, we like how damn difficult it is. But we're in a shrinking minority, and people want "little successes" more quickly. Disc golf is growing - and my wife and kid enjoy that too - because they can improve noticeably right from the start. Golf is difficult. Consider, seriously, a ball that you usually have to hit within about 1/8" of perfectly using a long stick to a hole 4.25" wide and 300+ yards away.

 

It's daunting. And it is really darn difficult.

 

Some people like that challenge, but they're in a small minority.

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