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TaylorMade Proposes 15 Inch holes! - Page 3

Poll Results: Would you be for a 15" cup as an option for golfers?

Poll expired: Apr 13, 2014  
  • 15% (7)
    Dedicated 15" cup courses. (Absolutely)
  • 22% (10)
    Alternate days. (Sometimes)
  • 20% (9)
    Maybe for April fools. (Rarely)
  • 40% (18)
    I'll play persimmons 'till the day I die. (Never)
44 Total Votes  
post #37 of 165

I voted Never, though I hope I don't really have to use persimmons because of it.  This, in my opinion of course, is nothing but an entirely self serving scheme from TaylorMade to bastardize the game of Golf into something else in hopes of selling a few more lines of non-conforming clubs.  This would NOT be good for Golf.

 

  • The chances of investors thinking it was a good enough idea to build significant number of dedicated TM-Goofy-Golf courses is slim to the point of approaching impossible.
  • The chances of many golf existing courses alternating between Golf and TMGG is similarly slim, both because it would hack off all the real golfers that were already their customers and because it would take a LOT of extra work on the part of their grounds crews to pull off.
  • If they tried having both sorts of holes on each green there would be a lot of real golfers (and some TMGGers) that would pull out a wedge to deal with the occasions that the "wrong" hole was blocking their path to the "right" hole.  That would be hard on the greens, the grounds crew, and the players.
  • People who might be drawn to the new TMGG game and who purchase non-conforming clubs to play at it with, that later decide to give Golf a try will soon find that their non-conforming TMGG clubs are unwelcome in any but the most casual games of Golf.  This will lead to hard feelings all the way around for a lot of people.  Again, not good for Golf.

 

Personally, I won't ever even consider TaylorMade products again.

 

Jim

post #38 of 165

Not a fan of the idea. Why not just pick it up after 2 or at most 3 putts and move on as a couple of others have suggested. Another poster suggested tee if forward as the best idea for newer golfers - agree with that. 

post #39 of 165
Maybe that would finally get the whole "drive for show, putt for dough" nonsense out of beginner's heads and get them focused on their full swing a little quicker.

Be fun with the kids, for sure.
post #40 of 165
Quote:
Originally Posted by iacas View Post
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fourputt View Post
 

I certainly don't see it dying any time soon, and unlike some I don't see any need for panic measures like 15" golf holes.

 

That's part of your problem, though: you think a 15" hole is a "panic measure."

 

It simply a little bit more fun. It's frustrating to take six putts the first few times you play. Even beginners hit the ball in the air occasionally, enough that they aren't super frustrated by that part of the game (and those who can't, put the ball on a tee or whatever).

 

It's simply an attempt to get more people interested in the game. It's not a "panic measure." I don't see anything wrong with a course having a weekly "six hole league" for beginners where the rules are that they get to tee the ball up everywhere, throw it sideways out of a bunker, and putt to 15" holes.

 

The game is too hard for a lot of people. Now you and me, we like how damn difficult it is. But we're in a shrinking minority, and people want "little successes" more quickly. Disc golf is growing - and my wife and kid enjoy that too - because they can improve noticeably right from the start. Golf is difficult. Consider, seriously, a ball that you usually have to hit within about 1/8" of perfectly using a long stick to a hole 4.25" wide and 300+ yards away.

 

It's daunting. And it is really darn difficult.

 

Some people like that challenge, but they're in a small minority.

 

You cherry picked one sentence from my post and lost the intent.  It's still my feeling that it's the game itself that lacks attraction for the audience these measures are aimed at, and drastic attempts at changing that situation simply aren't going to make any significant difference.  It will still just be "golf" to them, no matter what the changes.  They are unlikely to even recognize the attempts because they don't really understand that the game is all that difficult to begin with - they just aren't interested in finding that out.  When you say golf, they hear "dull" and reject the subject.  Once they grow up enough to have a potential interest, their lives may not allow them to pursue it until they have passed a certain point where they are financially and family free.  Only people like us for whom golf is a passion will find a way to play in spite of other necessary considerations.  If that passion hasn't been developed before those other activities take precedence, then golf will be shoved off the schedule and no amount of modification or enticement will bring it back until something changes in their lives.  

 

As others have said on this forum, even when the interest is there, golf's main detractors seem to be time and cost, and I don't see much being done to change those.  A man working a 50 plus hour week to keep his family in the middle class isn't going to have even three hours on the weekend to spare for 9 holes with his buddies because that's family and honey-do time, and he won't be able to afford to play as a family with any regularity because the cost for 3 or 4 would be prohibitive.  Most kids would rather be playing soccer or little league with their friends, and have Mom and Dad on the sidelines rooting them on.

 

I didn't even have the family or financial issues to blame and I already knew and liked the game, but I still didn't really start playing on a consistent basis until I was almost 40.  I had other activities that were also time consuming and which I was simply more interested in doing while I was still young enough to enjoy them.  For me it was skiing, whitewater kayaking, and hiking and backpacking that occupied most of my spare time after working 45-60 hour weeks.  I had played golf quite a bit in the mid 70's and knew that I liked the game - I just had too many activities and not enough time.  For that reason alone, I can easily see that there is much more to the difficulty in drawing people to the game than just changing a few things about it.

post #41 of 165

Okay, after reading all the other replies and giving it some thought, here is a suggestion for making it easier and more fun for beginners that doesn't require changing the golf course radically.

 

First: in the interest of pace of play, a lot of golf courses would be well served to assure that their roughs weren't too 'rough' and that out of bounds markers are realistically placed.  This would help everyone and speed up play.

 

Then develop "beginners rules."  Here are some suggestions off the top of my head...

  • Allow "lift, clean and place" on all shots, many people do this anyway, codify it for "beginners rules."  Heck, let 'em use a tee if that will reduce frustration and speed up play (better shots from the fairway = faster play generally).
  • Count the score tee to green, then allow two putts for bonus points off.  Example: a person takes six strokes to get the ball onto the green, they then have two putts:  If they make it into the cup on the first putt they get to take two strokes off, for a 4 on the hole.  If they make the second putt they get one stroke off, a 5.  If they miss the second putt, they pick up the ball and move along carding a 6.  This still gives the newbie plenty of incentive to practice their putting AND speeds them along to the next tee.
  • Set up a "beginners drop zone" outside bunkers that they can move their ball to for the cost of one stroke if they choose.  That way those who freak out over bunkers have a way out, and there is still plenty of incentive to improve bunker play to enhance scores.

 

I'm sure others could come up with more suggestions that might make the game a bit easier for beginners and thus more fun, but that don't require making radical changes to the golf course.  These sorts of changes would, I suspect, be more readily accepted and adopted by more courses.

post #42 of 165
Quote:
Originally Posted by PirateJim View Post
 

Okay, after reading all the other replies and giving it some thought, here is a suggestion for making it easier and more fun for beginners that doesn't require changing the golf course radically.

 

First: in the interest of pace of play, a lot of golf courses would be well served to assure that their roughs weren't too 'rough' and that out of bounds markers are realistically placed.  This would help everyone and speed up play.

 

Then develop "beginners rules."  Here are some suggestions off the top of my head...

  • Allow "lift, clean and place" on all shots, many people do this anyway, codify it for "beginners rules."  Heck, let 'em use a tee if that will reduce frustration and speed up play (better shots from the fairway = faster play generally).
  • Count the score tee to green, then allow two putts for bonus points off.  Example: a person takes six strokes to get the ball onto the green, they then have two putts:  If they make it into the cup on the first putt they get to take two strokes off, for a 4 on the hole.  If they make the second putt they get one stroke off, a 5.  If they miss the second putt, they pick up the ball and move along carding a 6.  This still gives the newbie plenty of incentive to practice their putting AND speeds them along to the next tee.
  • Set up a "beginners drop zone" outside bunkers that they can move their ball to for the cost of one stroke if they choose.  That way those who freak out over bunkers have a way out, and there is still plenty of incentive to improve bunker play to enhance scores.

 

I'm sure others could come up with more suggestions that might make the game a bit easier for beginners and thus more fun, but that don't require making radical changes to the golf course.  These sorts of changes would, I suspect, be more readily accepted and adopted by more courses.


Most beginners around here already do use "beginner rules" very similar to those things you listed. My wife still uses some of them if we are on a busy course (and she's not all that bad).

 

I'm watching the Drive, Chip, and Putt competition right now. That's the way to get kids in the game. I'm not sure what kind of participation it has right now, and I don't know what all could be done to promote it, but I don't know of a single kid that has ever entered that competition so it must not be very well promoted around here. I don't even know where the closest local competition is held.

 

On the other hand when I was a kid we all knew exactly when the local Ford Punt, Pass, and Kick competition was going to be held and we practiced for weeks getting ready for it.

Unfortunately for me every time I won it my parents said it was too expensive to travel to the next round. :-( I did get a couple of NFL jackets and a football helmet out of it for winning the locals though.

post #43 of 165
Quote:
Originally Posted by PirateJim View Post
 

This, in my opinion of course, is nothing but an entirely self serving scheme from TaylorMade to bastardize the game of Golf into something else in hopes of selling a few more lines of non-conforming clubs.

 

I'm glad you seem to have done some reading and backed off the statement. I think TM is spearheading it, and yes, there will be an upside to them, but just because a company will win doesn't mean golf can't "win" too.

 

Augusta National is benefitting from the Drive, Chip, and Putt thing going on right now, but that doesn't mean golf isn't "winning" too.

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fourputt View Post
 

You cherry picked one sentence from my post and lost the intent.

 

No I didn't. That sentence pretty well summarized the rest of your post. Not 100%, but fully enough that I saw no point in quoting the rest of your post.

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fourputt View Post
 

It's still my feeling that it's the game itself that lacks attraction for the audience these measures are aimed at, and drastic attempts at changing that situation simply aren't going to make any significant difference.

 

So, as I've said to you in the past, we should just sit back and do nothing, apparently. That seems to be your opinion, and that's fine. Other people disagree, and they're trying things. This might fail. But IMO it's a good effort, and it's getting people talking.

 

I have a wife and daughter. When they were beginning, they didn't mind the full swing stuff. They got the ball airborne most of the time, and unless they fatted the crap out of it, even mishits still advanced the ball 50+ yards or so. Putting was the frustrating piece for them. This helps to solve that.

 

You're a fuddy duddy. That's fine. You and I agree that this is not golf as it's meant to be played.

 

But neither is SNAG Golf, and I fully support that for getting kids involved. T-Ball isn't baseball, either, but it gets kids playing the game. I think if you were a baseball player, you'd be deriding T-Ball the same way you deride any of these "make the game easier and more fun" initiatives.

 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fourputt View Post
 

When you say golf, they hear "dull" and reject the subject.

 

Who are these people?

 

Because their answers are going to vary and be a lot more different than that. If their father plays, or their husband plays, or a guy at the office, or whomever… they may have very different answers than "it's dull."

 

Rick, you don't seem to understand that this isn't targeted at people who will never consider golf because they think it's dull.

 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fourputt View Post
 

Only people like us for whom golf is a passion will find a way to play in spite of other necessary considerations.

 

How did it become a passion for you?

 

Exactly.

 

Cuz here's my story: I went with my cousin to his little nine-hole course when I was with my grandma for a week. I "drove" using an old 5-wood down the first fairway. I'm sure I whiffed, topped, and thinned several, but all I remember is seeing the ball fly. Then I chipped and putted, and I'm sure I hit poor shots there too, but I remember the good ones.

 

I was 14. Golf wasn't something I was born passionate about - I had to be introduced.

 

This lowers the bar. It lets people have those little moments of success earlier, more easily.

 

I pray that I never have your world view of golf. What a sad outlook on the game you're clearly passionate about… just hoping that people will pick up the game when they turn 50? Oy.

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fourputt View Post
 

As others have said on this forum, even when the interest is there, golf's main detractors seem to be time and cost, and I don't see much being done to change those.

 

Junior memberships are inexpensive, and juniors often get clubs and things donated, or can spend $150 to get a complete set with a bag.

 

Juniors have a lot of time to play. And again, Rick, this is ONE IDEA. Other ideas about six-hole rounds and even six-hole leagues further reduce the cost and time. There's not going to be one idea that dramatically changes the course of golf in the modern world, but you seem to routinely take a dump on ANY idea.

 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fourputt View Post
 

Most kids would rather be playing soccer or little league with their friends, and have Mom and Dad on the sidelines rooting them on.

 

Let's pretend you're right and it truly is "most." That's not "all" and for many, simply being introduced will change the course of their lives.

 

I played soccer from age 3 on. I was a freshman varsity player, starting left win, on my high school team. The following year, I tried out for the golf team after my first summer playing the game. As it was during soccer season (both fall sports), I could only choose one sport…

 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fourputt View Post
 

I didn't even have the family or financial issues to blame and I already knew and liked the game, but I still didn't really start playing on a consistent basis until I was almost 40.

 

You seem to be putting a lot of weight on your own experiences. Guess what? Others have different experiences…

 

Do I expect to change your mind? No. You're the resident Grumpy Old Man. :-D And that's fine… but that doesn't mean, for the benefit of discussion and perhaps changing someone else's mind, that I'm not going to respond, either. :)

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by MS256 View Post
 

I'm watching the Drive, Chip, and Putt competition right now. That's the way to get kids in the game. I'm not sure what kind of participation it has right now, and I don't know what all could be done to promote it, but I don't know of a single kid that has ever entered that competition so it must not be very well promoted around here. I don't even know where the closest local competition is held.

 

Parents of kids can go to the site to find this information out quite easily. Kids in First Tee programs will have this promoted to them. Etc. It drew 15,000 kids the first year, and has 256 local qualifying sites in the U.S. and Canada this year. They expect 50,000 kids.

post #44 of 165
Quote:
Originally Posted by iacas View Post
 

 

I'm glad you seem to have done some reading and backed off the statement. I think TM is spearheading it, and yes, there will be an upside to them, but just because a company will win doesn't mean golf can't "win" too.

 

 

Hi Erik,

 

I haven't actually "backed off" my strong disapproval of things like 15" cups, or TM's whole Hack Golf concept (I believe that was the name that included non-conforming clubs and all.).  I'm sorry if my subsequent post seemed to come off as backing off that position.  However, I often criticize people that simply oppose ideas without offering better alternatives (or arguing that the status quo is just right).  To that end, the second post was intended as an attempt to offer up some alternative suggestions for making it more fun and interesting for beginners and hopefully speed up play a bit without the need to make radical alterations to regulation courses.  I agree with MS256 that some beginners do at least some of those things.  I think it wouldn't hurt to formalize beginner's rules so everyone had the opportunity to know what is going on and beginners with high standards of personal behavior would have a way to make things easier without feeling like they were cheating.

 

Jim

post #45 of 165

If 15" holes will appeal to the non-golfers so much why haven't miniature golf courses done that, since their target market is mostly non-golfers?

 

And personally I would never have any interest in any game where I am told that the game is too hard for me so I will have to play some ersatz version of the game.

 

That said, I have no objection to beginners being allowed to take liberties with the rules in informal play, which is the only kind of play a beginner should be engaged in anyway.  I'm OK with courses being set up to be more beginner friendly.

 

But the 15" hole goes way beyond that, IMO, and just another part of the trend to dummy down almost everything because so many people have such short attention spans and are unwilling to work at anything on order to get good at it. I remember the first time I ever played on a real golf course.  I shot 101.  On 9 holes.  And it was really worse than that, as I remember hitting a few big banana slices over the fence and out of bounds, but at the time did not know to add penalty strokes.  Having 15" holes would have done nothing to make the game more attractive to me.  

 

Make up a new game that is golf-like that is played on other courses and I wouldn't object, although I doubt many would make the migration to real golf.  There is a reason that softball and baseball are different games.

post #46 of 165
Quote:
Originally Posted by PirateJim View Post
 

I haven't actually "backed off" my strong disapproval of things like 15" cups, or TM's whole Hack Golf concept (I believe that was the name that included non-conforming clubs and all.).

 

Okay, then I take back that part of my post, and will simply state that I think you're massively over-reacting by swearing off an entire brand who is, ultimately, trying to (and funding) come up with ideas to help get more people into golf.

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by turtleback View Post
 

If 15" holes will appeal to the non-golfers so much why haven't miniature golf courses done that, since their target market is mostly non-golfers?

 

Because it's JUST putting. Rounds don't take 4 hours, the holes are literally 20 feet long and not 350 yards, and they've not already taken eight swings and three throws before they start putting.

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by turtleback View Post
 

And personally I would never have any interest in any game where I am told that the game is too hard for me so I will have to play some ersatz version of the game.

 

I bet you're wrong. Even as an adult. Ever play bar room pool? Those rules don't follow the true rules where players get ball in hand for any infraction, etc. Ever play ping pong? Did you know that you have to serve, palm up, and you have to throw the ball six inches or so? Etc. There are tons of sports - even card games, probably - where you've likely played some "variant" of the game intended to speed things up, make it easier or "more fair" to beginners, etc.

 

At least you don't object to others doing this sort of thing if it floats their boat and gets them out on the golf course.

 
Quote:
Originally Posted by turtleback View Post
 

But the 15" hole goes way beyond that, IMO, and just another part of the trend to dummy down almost everything because so many people have such short attention spans and are unwilling to work at anything on order to get good at it.

 

If that's the way things are going, then golf must adapt or die out.

 

When someone wants to learn calculus, do you immediately start there, or do you teach them what numbers are? Golf has no real "developmental track." SNAG Golf is close, but even then the leap from SNAG to "real golf" is quite a jump.

 

If people NEVER take up golf, who is to say whether they will develop the attention span and/or begin to "work at" getting better?

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by turtleback View Post
 

Having 15" holes would have done nothing to make the game more attractive to me.

 

Not everyone thinks, feels, believes, acts, etc. like you.

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by turtleback View Post
 

There is a reason that softball and baseball are different games.

 

They're pretty darn similar… Probably mid to upper 90% rules overlap, no?

 


 

I guess if it feels like I'm somewhat passionate about this topic, it's mostly because it saddens me how many people seem so stuck in their ways. The "kids these days just don't put in the effort" and "back in my day, we walked two miles uphill both ways in the driving sleet to play golf" type stuff.

 

At the core, this and all of Hack Golf is simply about coming up with ideas that will interest more people in golf. They're not sacrilegious, they're not all going to work (maybe more than half will fail inside of a year), etc. But I applaud anyone who is trying to grow the game. It saddens me that so many seem to want to just poo poo the ideas. I don't have the answers, but I'm pretty sure none of you guys do either, and I believe those offering ideas deserve support or consideration, not just outright and immediate dismissal.

post #47 of 165
Quote:

Originally Posted by iacas View Post

 

They're pretty darn similar… Probably mid to upper 90% rules overlap, no?

 

 

Different equipment, different techniques, different playing field.  90% rules overlap is irrelevant, it is the differences that count.  The difference in rules between real golf and the various ersatz golfs are not all that difference, it is the equipment and course parameters that are different.  The more I think about it, the softball/baseball analogy seems fairly accurate to me.

 

Quote:

Originally Posted by iacas View Post

 

I guess if it feels like I'm somewhat passionate about this topic, it's mostly because it saddens me how many people seem so stuck in their ways. The "kids these days just don't put in the effort" and "back in my day, we walked two miles uphill both ways in the driving sleet to play golf" type stuff.

 

At the core, this and all of Hack Golf is simply about coming up with ideas that will interest more people in golf. They're not sacrilegious, they're not all going to work (maybe more than half will fail inside of a year), etc. But I applaud anyone who is trying to grow the game. It saddens me that so many seem to want to just poo poo the ideas. I don't have the answers, but I'm pretty sure none of you guys do either, and I believe those offering ideas deserve support or consideration, not just outright and immediate dismissal.

There is also the difference that you and Taylormade depend on the game for your living so to you and them growing the game is important.  As a player I feel much less of an urgency or responsibility to grow the game.  I am happy to share my passion with others, but it is going to be in the context of the real game, not an ersatz version.  There is really no particular upside to the game growing, for me and people like me.  Look at the threads on this and every other golf board.  What is the most common complaint?  Pace of play and crowded courses.  And getting more people to play just exacerbates the situation.  And sure, if the  game grows more courses will be built, but I think what the experience of the Tiger era has shown us is that when the game takes an upward tick in popularity and lots more courses are built the net result was an increase in the cost of golfing, since so many of the new courses were up-scale courses that raised the over-all price structure for all courses.  Look at all of the course in the $100 plus range, and the way now middle of the road courses are $50 and up.  20 years ago that would have been unthinkable, even correcting for inflation.

 

So no, my concern is not growing the game, it is not having the game I  love screwed up.  Have Hack Golf or SNAG or anything else all they want.  Just do it in a way that does not impinge on real golf courses and real golfers and I won't object.  I would hate for the legacy of all this stuff to be: "To grow the game we had to kill the game."

post #48 of 165
Quote:
Originally Posted by iacas View Post

 

......

 

I guess if it feels like I'm somewhat passionate about this topic, it's mostly because it saddens me how many people seem so stuck in their ways. The "kids these days just don't put in the effort" and "back in my day, we walked two miles uphill both ways in the driving sleet to play golf" type stuff.

 

At the core, this and all of Hack Golf is simply about coming up with ideas that will interest more people in golf. They're not sacrilegious, they're not all going to work (maybe more than half will fail inside of a year), etc. But I applaud anyone who is trying to grow the game. It saddens me that so many seem to want to just poo poo the ideas. I don't have the answers, but I'm pretty sure none of you guys do either, and I believe those offering ideas deserve support or consideration, not just outright and immediate dismissal.

 

Hmmm.  No... No, every idea that comes down the pike doesn't deserve universal support. 

 

So far as consideration, that is exactly what internet forum threads like this one are really about, isn't it?  The premise of the poll that got this thread rolling was "Would you be for a 15" cup as an option for golfers?"  That invites discussion.  Now, just because some individual may think it is a bad idea which they choose to dismiss outright does not mean it is ultimately a bad idea.  However, just because someone comes up with an idea and goes about promoting it certainly does not automatically make it a good idea that deserves everyone's support either! 

 

In my case at least, this is not the first I have heard of the "Hack Golf" concept, and although the whopper cup is the current topic, I have given the overall concept what consideration I am capable of and listed some of the more important points against the idea in my first post on the topic.  I wouldn't be surprised to hear that others have also had the time to think this through and contemplate the ramifications to the game.  "Growing the game" isn't such a wonderful thing if "the game" stops being Golf along the way (IMHO).  The thing that will get more people into the game, or back into the game since many have been forced to quit, is to get the economy moving... but I'm skating close to a different topic so now I will shut up and consider my piece to have been said.

post #49 of 165
Quote:
Originally Posted by PirateJim View Post

Hmmm.  No... No, every idea that comes down the pike doesn't deserve universal support.

I didn't say that.

The subject of the bold sentence wasn't the idea. It was the people offering ideas.
post #50 of 165
Quote:
Originally Posted by iacas View Post
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by turtleback View Post
 

But the 15" hole goes way beyond that, IMO, and just another part of the trend to dummy down almost everything because so many people have such short attention spans and are unwilling to work at anything on order to get good at it.

 

If that's the way things are going, then golf must adapt or die out.

 

When someone wants to learn calculus, do you immediately start there, or do you teach them what numbers are? Golf has no real "developmental track." SNAG Golf is close, but even then the leap from SNAG to "real golf" is quite a jump.

 

If people NEVER take up golf, who is to say whether they will develop the attention span and/or begin to "work at" getting better?

 

 

Come on Erik... comparing golf to calculus?  I can put a total novice on a golf course and explain the general idea and he will be able to move the ball toward the hole.  Maybe not well, but he'll get there.  If you give me a calculus problem and tell me the answer, I still won't have a clue how to get from one to the other.   And I've had all the basic math through advanced algebra and trig.  Calculus is more like teaching someone baseball, then telling him to go play in a cricket match.

post #51 of 165
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fourputt View Post

Come on Erik... comparing golf to calculus?

Made sense to me.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fourputt View Post

I can put a total novice on a golf course and explain the general idea and he will be able to move the ball toward the hole.  Maybe not well, but he'll get there.

Eventually. After 10 whiffs or other horrible shots. And six or so others. a1_smile.gif

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fourputt View Post

Calculus is more like teaching someone baseball, then telling him to go play in a cricket match.

Then call it trying to get a first grader to understand geometry. Or long division. I don't care.

Fact is golf doesn't really have a great development track. Very quickly we expect players to hit the ball off the ground with a relatively small and unforgiving funny shaped stick swung relatively quickly.

And you said I cherry picked. Ha. a1_smile.gif
post #52 of 165
Quote:
Originally Posted by iacas View Post

And you said I cherry picked. Ha. a1_smile.gif

That was the only part I took issue with.  a2_wink.gif
post #53 of 165
Quote:
Originally Posted by iacas View Post
 

I bet you're wrong. Even as an adult. Ever play bar room pool? Those rules don't follow the true rules where players get ball in hand for any infraction, etc. Ever play ping pong? Did you know that you have to serve, palm up, and you have to throw the ball six inches or so? Etc. There are tons of sports - even card games, probably - where you've likely played some "variant" of the game intended to speed things up, make it easier or "more fair" to beginners, etc.

Another one is slow pitch softball.  It's its own sport now, but surely it started out as a "variant" of baseball.  Darts.  Those of us who don't play it much but enjoy it nonetheless cannot play double in/double out because the game would take forever, cuz we suck.

 

Flag or two-hand touch football

Half-court basketball

Bumper bowling (seriously, how much fun does that add to the game for total beginners and kids who would otherwise throw a gutter ball 9 times out of ten?)

No-tap bowling

 

What is it about golf that makes it so "special" that nobody wants to think outside of the box to try and grow the game??

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by iacas View Post
 

... But I applaud anyone who is trying to grow the game. It saddens me that so many seem to want to just poo poo the ideas. I don't have the answers, but I'm pretty sure none of you guys do either, and I believe those offering ideas deserve support or consideration, not just outright and immediate dismissal.

This sums up perfectly how I feel about this topic.  Well said.

post #54 of 165

15" cups is a dumb idea. Beginning golfers can putt fine enough on a regulation hole. It is the long game that drives them away from the game. Even half decent hacks who have been playing for years will somehow manage to hit the ground for inches behind the ball an watch the divot go twice as far as the ball. And there really is no way to take that element out of golf without it really being golf anymore.

 

Taylormade is trying to solve the problem with some bs moves that will only serve for them to sell more products. The should really admit that it was their products that ruined the game in the first place by juicing up the clubs and balls so any schmuck could arm the ball out there 250+. Courses then had to be built longer and more costly to maintain etc. And then when your beginner golfer walks up with his 47" 460 and slices the bejesus out the ball you need to wait for him to walk three fairways over and hit three punch out shots.

 

To truly improve and grow the game while maintaining much of the difficulty I have devised my own new set of rules.

 

1. Club length limit at 43 inches

2. Golf ball that goes half as far and courses that are half the size.

3. No golf carts without medical clearance

4. All players are provided divot mix to clip to their bags/pull carts

5. Ready golf

6. much thinner metal flagsticks which are not removable

7. women get one free throw per hole

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