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The I'd like 5mph more on my Swing Thread - Page 3

post #37 of 72
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lihu View Post

You could probably gain even more than 10 yards just hitting better shots in the center of the face with better swing mechanics. 215 carry is pretty respectable already, and as my coaches stated a couple times work on your consistency and form and the distance when you have nothing else to work on.

Like @cipher mentioned earlier, just improving the form and consistency brought distance and speed without really trying to gain it. That's because you start hitting the center of the face with the proper face angle and swing path. As your swing path becomes more efficient, you gain more speed.

My son who's only 5'6" is starting to out drive me, but his mechanics is really good and only getting better. By the time he's our size it would not be unrealistic for him to drive 280 or more without really trying any harder.

You've pretty nicely summed up what I was alluding to regarding myself. Working on swing speed alone will come pretty near the bottom of the list of things to do to improve your game for 99% of people
post #38 of 72
Thread Starter 

Fascinating...  The thread got hot for a while.

 

 

I'll put my two cents in on the distance versus accuracy debate.

 

All things equal, being able to swing harder and hit it further makes a big difference.  I imagine a good example would be having a player like Annika Sorenstam play versus the men.  We all know she has great technique and ball striking/ control but ultimately the Distance that the men play at is too much.  Now she beat many of those guys she was going against which is a testament to her accuracy and control but you have the big hitters getting away with much more simply because they can hit it 50+ yards further.

 

 

Hitting it long is a blessing and a curse at times.... being able to hit it long enables you to more easily recover from mistakes BUT hitting it long can also CAUSE your mistakes to be magnified.

 

I've always been of the school that its much harder to teach Length off the tee than it is to teach accuracy.  So swing at full speed all the time and we'll work on your control after

post #39 of 72
Quote:
Originally Posted by CoachinPA View Post
 

Fascinating...  The thread got hot for a while.

 

 

I'll put my two cents in on the distance versus accuracy debate.

 

All things equal, being able to swing harder and hit it further makes a big difference.  I imagine a good example would be having a player like Annika Sorenstam play versus the men.  We all know she has great technique and ball striking/ control but ultimately the Distance that the men play at is too much.  Now she beat many of those guys she was going against which is a testament to her accuracy and control but you have the big hitters getting away with much more simply because they can hit it 50+ yards further.

 

 

Hitting it long is a blessing and a curse at times.... being able to hit it long enables you to more easily recover from mistakes BUT hitting it long can also CAUSE your mistakes to be magnified.

 

I've always been of the school that its much harder to teach Length off the tee than it is to teach accuracy.  So swing at full speed all the time and we'll work on your control after

 

I believe this statement to be true, though I do not have any facts to back it up.

 

I also do not see how the ability to hit it long could ever be a detriment.  If you can hit long, you always have the option to grab a shorter club.  I hit it short with the driver and can't afford to hit a shorter club off of the tee.

post #40 of 72
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by 14ledo81 View Post
 

 

I believe this statement to be true, though I do not have any facts to back it up.

 

I also do not see how the ability to hit it long could ever be a detriment.  If you can hit long, you always have the option to grab a shorter club.  I hit it short with the driver and can't afford to hit a shorter club off of the tee.


Good point about clubbing down.  Length does offer that option

post #41 of 72
Quote:
Originally Posted by CoachinPA View Post
 

Fascinating...  The thread got hot for a while.

 

 

I'll put my two cents in on the distance versus accuracy debate.

 

All things equal, being able to swing harder and hit it further makes a big difference.  I imagine a good example would be having a player like Annika Sorenstam play versus the men.  We all know she has great technique and ball striking/ control but ultimately the Distance that the men play at is too much.  Now she beat many of those guys she was going against which is a testament to her accuracy and control but you have the big hitters getting away with much more simply because they can hit it 50+ yards further.

 

 

Hitting it long is a blessing and a curse at times.... being able to hit it long enables you to more easily recover from mistakes BUT hitting it long can also CAUSE your mistakes to be magnified.

 

I've always been of the school that its much harder to teach Length off the tee than it is to teach accuracy.  So swing at full speed all the time and we'll work on your control after

 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by 14ledo81 View Post
 

 

I believe this statement to be true, though I do not have any facts to back it up.

 

I also do not see how the ability to hit it long could ever be a detriment.  If you can hit long, you always have the option to grab a shorter club.  I hit it short with the driver and can't afford to hit a shorter club off of the tee.

 

 

I could see how hitting long and uncontrolled could be a detriment. :smartass:

post #42 of 72
Quote:
Originally Posted by 14ledo81 View Post

I also do not see how the ability to hit it long could ever be a detriment.
Sure it can. Next time you mishit a drive, go to where you ball lies. Now walk down the line your ball was taking about 30-40 yards and drop a ball. Keep a running tally of how many shots you would have to declare unplayable and take the stroke and distance penalty.

The other thing I can think of (someone correct me if I'm wrong) is that a faster swing imparts more energy to the ball, which leads to more spin. A mishit with a faster swing will hook or slice more than the same miss with a slower swing. A faster swing will increase the magnitude of a mishit.

Length has it's benefits, no doubt, but a faster swing requires more control than a slower one.
post #43 of 72
Bill, while that's all a fine way of looking at things… longer hitters are also more accurate. Because they're better.

On average.
post #44 of 72
Quote:
Originally Posted by billchao View Post
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by 14ledo81 View Post

I also do not see how the ability to hit it long could ever be a detriment.
Sure it can. Next time you mishit a drive, go to where you ball lies. Now walk down the line your ball was taking about 30-40 yards and drop a ball. Keep a running tally of how many shots you would have to declare unplayable and take the stroke and distance penalty.

The other thing I can think of (someone correct me if I'm wrong) is that a faster swing imparts more energy to the ball, which leads to more spin. A mishit with a faster swing will hook or slice more than the same miss with a slower swing. A faster swing will increase the magnitude of a mishit.

Length has it's benefits, no doubt, but a faster swing requires more control than a slower one.

 

I did not mean hitting the ball farther on a specific hole could not be a detriment.  Me, a short hitter, can hit it over the green and into the water from time to time.

 

I meant the ability to hit it long.  There is no way I would turn down an extra 10-15 (or the 30-40 you mentioned :drool:) yards on all of my clubs.  As I stated before, you could always hit a shorter club.  A short hitter does not have that option.

post #45 of 72
Quote:
Originally Posted by iacas View Post

Bill, while that's all a fine way of looking at things… longer hitters are also more accurate. Because they're better.

On average.

Quote:
Originally Posted by 14ledo81 View Post

I did not mean hitting the ball farther on a specific hole could not be a detriment.  Me, a short hitter, can hit it over the green and into the water from time to time.

I meant the ability to hit it long.  There is no way I would turn down an extra 10-15 (or the 30-40 you mentioned d3_drool.gif ) yards on all of my clubs.  As I stated before, you could always hit a shorter club.  A short hitter does not have that option.

The context was to learn to hit far first and then learn to control it. This is not such a good idea. I was partially joking when I said that an uncontrolled long shot could be detrimental, but it is as Bill pointed out.

The focus on all my lessons was for control and not distance, but I gained 20 yards of distance because I have a more controlled swing.

If you focus on a more consistent controlled swing, you will always have the distance you need. The other thing is that all your othere clubs will be more reliable as well. If you hit a bad tee shot the chances of recovery are much better.
post #46 of 72
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lihu View Post

The context was to learn to hit far first and then learn to control it. This is not such a good idea.

 

I disagree.

 

But who knows what anyone's context is. My kid? I encourage her to swing hard. Power is an advantage, and I don't want her swinging at it like a wimp. Power can always be reigned in and controlled a bit later. It's tough to add power later.

post #47 of 72
Quote:
Originally Posted by iacas View Post

I disagree.

But who knows what anyone's context is. My kid? I encourage her to swing hard. Power is an advantage, and I don't want her swinging at it like a wimp. Power can always be reigned in and controlled a bit later. It's tough to add power later.
Lexi Thompson is a perfect example of that.
post #48 of 72
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by iacas View Post
 

 

I disagree.

 

But who knows what anyone's context is. My kid? I encourage her to swing hard. Power is an advantage, and I don't want her swinging at it like a wimp. Power can always be reigned in and controlled a bit later. It's tough to add power later.


Agree 100%  trying to add power later can almost be like trying to learn to swing again for the first time

post #49 of 72
Quote:
Originally Posted by iacas View Post

Bill, while that's all a fine way of looking at things… longer hitters are also more accurate. Because they're better.

On average.
I'll accept that, but the subject ot the thread (which I've had a hand in derailing, sorry) is to swing 5mph faster. I just think that most people would gain more from learning to swing more efficiently than to develop an exercise routine simply to swing faster.

Quote:
Originally Posted by 14ledo81 View Post

There is no way I would turn down an extra 10-15 (or the 30-40 you mentioned d3_drool.gif ) yards on all of my clubs.  As I stated before, you could always hit a shorter club.  A short hitter does not have that option.
Sorry I was just referring to the driver (specifically, making a comparison of your drive to a longer one). I'm not saying anyone would turn down extra yards, I'm just saying that increasing one's swing speed without improving one's mechanics will bring other variables into play.

Also, if they're playing appropriate tees, a short vs long hitter should both be hitting approximately the same clubs (driver, mid iron, for example) into greens. At least that's the way I always understood it was supposed to work.
post #50 of 72
Quote:
Originally Posted by billchao View Post

I'll accept that, but the subject ot the thread (which I've had a hand in derailing, sorry) is to swing 5mph faster. I just think that most people would gain more from learning to swing more efficiently than to develop an exercise routine simply to swing faster.

 

I haven't commented on exercise routines. Often technique improves clubhead speed. Things sync better.

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by billchao View Post

Also, if they're playing appropriate tees, a short vs long hitter should both be hitting approximately the same clubs (driver, mid iron, for example) into greens. At least that's the way I always understood it was supposed to work.

 

Eh, in theory perhaps. But it almost never works out that way because people aren't perfectly proportionate in their distances (some hit irons far but drivers a bit shorter, etc.), nor are the tee lengths perfectly proportioned throughout.

post #51 of 72
Quote:
Originally Posted by iacas View Post

I haven't commented on exercise routines. Often technique improves clubhead speed. Things sync better.
Well this is the fitness and exercise forum... a2_wink.gif
post #52 of 72
Quote:
Originally Posted by billchao View Post

Well this is the fitness and exercise forum... a2_wink.gif

 

Then I'm out. I'm opposed to fitness and exercise! :D 

post #53 of 72
Quote:
Originally Posted by iacas View Post
 

 

I haven't commented on exercise routines. Often technique improves clubhead speed. Things sync better.

 

 

Eh, in theory perhaps. But it almost never works out that way because people aren't perfectly proportionate in their distances (some hit irons far but drivers a bit shorter, etc.), nor are the tee lengths perfectly proportioned throughout.

 

I used to swing a club with a fan on the end of it to gain speed, but stopped because I thought that was detrimental to my swing development. Maybe it was at the time because my swing so far off and my timing was not getting developed.

 

Would you and @mvmac recommend I should start swinging as fast as I can on the range? At the moment, I feel like there is an extra 30%-40%** in reserve on my swings, so would you two recommend that I start "going for it" on the range and back off to 80% of that on the course?

 

 

**IDK if there is really that much but that's the feeling.

post #54 of 72
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lihu View Post
 
 

The context was to learn to hit far first and then learn to control it. This is not such a good idea. I was partially joking when I said that an uncontrolled long shot could be detrimental, but it is as Bill pointed out.

The focus on all my lessons was for control and not distance, but I gained 20 yards of distance because I have a more controlled swing.

If you focus on a more consistent controlled swing, you will always have the distance you need. The other thing is that all your othere clubs will be more reliable as well. If you hit a bad tee shot the chances of recovery are much better.

 

I also disagree with the "control first, speed will come" idea.  I think this is true to a certain extent, but I would also think (no facts here) that control would be easier for an instructor to teach than swing speed.  I have heard pitching in baseball is similar.  Scouts are looking for high numbers on the radar guns because they feel they can teach control and movement easier than speed.

 

 

Quote:

Quote:
Originally Posted by 14ledo81 View Post

There is no way I would turn down an extra 10-15 (or the 30-40 you mentioned d3_drool.gif ) yards on all of my clubs.  As I stated before, you could always hit a shorter club.  A short hitter does not have that option.
Sorry I was just referring to the driver (specifically, making a comparison of your drive to a longer one). I'm not saying anyone would turn down extra yards, I'm just saying that increasing one's swing speed without improving one's mechanics will bring other variables into play.

Also, if they're playing appropriate tees, a short vs long hitter should both be hitting approximately the same clubs (driver, mid iron, for example) into greens. At least that's the way I always understood it was supposed to work.

 

Even if we are talking driver only, the longer hitter has the option to hit a 3 wood or hybrid just as far as a short hitter hits a driver.  This has to be an advantage.  Even if they have similar shot cones.  The long hitter has the option to use the shorter club (and hit just as far), but can also pull the driver on a more open hole and have a big advantage.

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