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What would you shoot at Augusta on Sunday? - Page 11

post #181 of 229
Quote:
Originally Posted by rkim291968 View Post
 

 

I fit into both category and I fully agree.   It looks like most of my big numbers will come from "around the green" after doing my usual GIR+1 (or +2). 

 

I didn't notice this in previous years.   It seem like the only way to make this course play hard for today's players (long off tee, wedge into green) seems to be by tricking up the greens ("concrete" surface, difficult hole location).   


I tend to agree with this.

 

I am planning on playing Hidden Valley 73.8/141 (Stimp 10) tomorrow morning with my son on spring break. We'll play the tips, and report how we do.

 

Thursday is still open, but we would like to play the tips at Tuckwet CR 76.1/139. Score and play TBD. Stimp rating is currently at 11.

 

Good test, I think.

post #182 of 229

I haven't read the entire thread so not sure if this has been mentioned or not but thought I'd share regardless.

 

Gary Player says that if a single digit handicapper was to play Augusta, hit every green in regulation, but had to putt from the spot on the green he placed the ball, the single digit handicapper wouldn't break 100. Says something about the difficulty of the greens.

 

Different situation than just going to play the course from tee to green but thought it was interesting. 

 

I think I would shoot high 90s. My goal would be to break 100.

post #183 of 229
Quote:
Originally Posted by Foursum Golf View Post
 

Gary Player says that if a single digit handicapper was to play Augusta, hit every green in regulation, but had to putt from the spot on the green he placed the ball, the single digit handicapper wouldn't break 100. Says something about the difficulty of the greens.

 

Or how out of touch some people can be with the relative skills of others.

 

Mark Broadie's book points out that a guy who shoots 80 can out-putt an average PGA Tour pro 20% of the time.

 

So… hitting every green and TWO-PUTTING is shooting 72. He'd have to four-putt more greens than he three-putted to do as Gary suggests. And yes, I realize Gary is basically getting to put the hole and the ball wherever he wants, which definitely could lead to some goofy putts (i.e. he puts the pin all the way on the front on nine, and puts your ball an inch from the back fringe, and yeah, good luck two-putting…). But those kinds of scenarios don't happen during a round of golf. Not 18 times I mean.

post #184 of 229
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Foursum Golf View Post
 

I haven't read the entire thread so not sure if this has been mentioned or not but thought I'd share regardless.

 

Gary Player says that if a single digit handicapper was to play Augusta, hit every green in regulation, but had to putt from the spot on the green he placed the ball, the single digit handicapper wouldn't break 100. Says something about the difficulty of the greens.

 

Different situation than just going to play the course from tee to green but thought it was interesting. 

 

I think I would shoot high 90s. My goal would be to break 100.

I totally get your point and I respect Gary Player's opinion more than everyone here that hasn't played the course, but no one here is going to even consider your comment.  When I mentioned that Jack Nicklaus said they were twice as hard as any greens he ever played in his life, people here just said "well, he doesn't know how well other people putt or their abilities."  Silly comeback when we DO know the abilities of the gentleman commenting on the difficulty, and how well they've played there.  

 

You would tend to think that people would take these guys' opinions seriously, considering they are a couple of the best to ever play the game, but not at The Sandtrap.  Jack Nicklaus said he's never played on harder greens, and people here don't think they'll have worse than a 3 putt, playing the course for the first time?  Give me a break.  Brandt Snedeker, one of the best putters on tour, 5 putted from 6 feet this weekend!!

 

Stop saying so what. The so what is that if these guys struggle this much, so would you.

post #185 of 229
Quote:
Originally Posted by Foursum Golf View Post
 

I haven't read the entire thread so not sure if this has been mentioned or not but thought I'd share regardless.

 

Gary Player says that if a single digit handicapper was to play Augusta, hit every green in regulation, but had to putt from the spot on the green he placed the ball, the single digit handicapper wouldn't break 100. Says something about the difficulty of the greens.

 

Different situation than just going to play the course from tee to green but thought it was interesting. 

 

I think I would shoot high 90s. My goal would be to break 100.

SMH! :doh::doh::doh::doh::doh::doh::doh: 

 

Gary Player Red Herring Alert:

 

Who in the Hell would ever be dumb enough, or unlucky enough, to hit the ball to all of the worst spots on all of the greens? There are so many "friendly" slopes that plenty of balls would accidentally get in better spots than that.

 

As I said much earlier, the better ball strikers would unintentionally and accidentally have some of those impossible putts, albeit for birdies. The less competent ball strikers would have fewer of those because they would be either unintentionally or intentionally "laying up", chipping up, and putting for pars or bogies.

 

It would equal out so that either having a decent day would come at least relatively close to shooting what their respective handicaps suggest they would shoot.

 

I do admit that the very poor ball striker that also can't chip or putt a lick would have a Hell of a time scoring and I wouldn't bet a nickel on their chances.


Edited by MS256 - 4/14/14 at 3:20pm
post #186 of 229
Quote:
Originally Posted by Foursum Golf View Post
 

 

 

Gary Player says that if a single digit handicapper was to play Augusta, hit every green in regulation, but had to putt from the spot on the green he placed the ball, the single digit handicapper wouldn't break 100. Says something about the difficulty of the greens.

 

 

Did Gary do a karate kick right after saying that? Or drop down to the floor and start doing one-arm push-ups?

 

Gary is effin' hilarious, trouble is, I'm not sure if it's on purpose...

post #187 of 229
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ernest Jones View Post
 

Did Gary do a karate kick right after saying that? Or drop down to the floor and start doing one-arm push-ups?

 

Gary is effin' hilarious, trouble is, I'm not sure if it's on purpose...

Ha ha.  :beer:

post #188 of 229
Quote:
Originally Posted by albatross View Post
 

Stop saying so what. The so what is that if these guys struggle this much, so would you.

 

Who says they struggled?

 

Again, median player on the PGA Tour in 2013 (90th of 180): 1.782

Only the bottom 13 players (of 97 or so - the entire field) putted worse in this year's Masters.

 

Unfortunately our stats are somewhat limited (no "strokes gained putting" or anything like that), but median versus bottom 13 of 97 is pretty compelling the other way from the point you're trying to make.

 

I've putted difficult greens. You keep using one pro five-putting as some sort of an example, when it's just an anomaly. Just as it was when he four-putted in Chicago. You refuse to account for the many times pros one-putt. Did you know that on average a PGA Tour player makes 1.5 putts over 21 feet over 72 holes on the PGA Tour? The winner only makes 1.8? How many did Bubba make on Sunday alone? I think at least two.

 

I watched Aaron Baddeley four-putt (IIRC) the first green during one round of the 2007 U.S. Open at Oakmont. The last time I played there, I left a 30-foot putt (my first) a few inches short. I played about nine feet of break and it was downhill the whole way. Your Brandt Snedeker example doesn't do much to prove anything, and you don't know what other people can do.

 

Now I'll say something that will surely frustrate you, but it's remarkably true (and can be proven): PGA Tour players aren't even spectacular putters.

 

So again, @albatross, enough criticizing the claims of others. This is my last request. If you want to talk about how good PGA Tour players are at putting relative to amateurs, start a new thread or something. It doesn't belong here.

post #189 of 229
Quote:
Originally Posted by albatross View Post

I totally get your point and I respect Gary Player's opinion more than everyone here that hasn't played the course, but no one here is going to even consider your comment.  When I mentioned that Jack Nicklaus said they were twice as hard as any greens he ever played in his life, people here just said "well, he doesn't know how well other people putt or their abilities."  Silly comeback when we DO know the abilities of the gentleman commenting on the difficulty, and how well they've played there.  

Then why wasn't Jack's putting average double that at every other course? It's not even particularly close.

Jack and Player have an incentive to make Augusta (and in particular winning at Augusta) look difficult, because it makes their accomplishments look better.

I think people get caught up in the mystique of Augusta a little too much. I think part of that is because no one wants to say anything back about the place, part of it is just that we know the course so well, and we know all of the architectural changes it's gone through. It's a very challenging course, no doubt, but it's also one that very regularly produces winners with four-day scores double digits under par. It's quite often the easiest major championship of the year to par, and sometimes produces lower scores than regular PGA Tour courses.
post #190 of 229
I know a scratch golfer who got to play Augusta a few years back. He told me it was the length that killed him more than anything else. Hitting 7 irons (or even 6 irons) into greens instead of wedges. He never even mentioned the greens.
post #191 of 229
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ernest Jones View Post

I know a scratch golfer who got to play Augusta a few years back. He told me it was the length that killed him more than anything else. Hitting 7 irons (or even 6 irons) into greens instead of wedges. He never even mentioned the greens.

For some reason, I would have always imagined that Augusta is the kind of place that would forbid people from ever playing from the Tournament tees the rest of the year.

post #192 of 229
Quote:
Originally Posted by Golfingdad View Post

For some reason, I would have always imagined that Augusta is the kind of place that would forbid people from ever playing from the Tournament tees the rest of the year.
Can't say for certain which tees he played from but I think it was the tournament tees. In any case he said it was loooong and this guy is a legitimate scratch with some serious game.

What's the length on the second longest tees? I believe the "Masters" tees are 7400+ yards?
post #193 of 229
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ernest Jones View Post

What's the length on the second longest tees? I believe the "Masters" tees are 7400+ yards?

 

There are only two tees.

post #194 of 229
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ernest Jones View Post


Can't say for certain which tees he played from but I think it was the tournament tees. In any case he said it was loooong and this guy is a legitimate scratch with some serious game.

What's the length on the second longest tees? I believe the "Masters" tees are 7400+ yards?

Yeah, only Masters and Members, and the members are only 6365.  A scratch golfer would never consider 6300 to be long, so he must have played the Masters tees.

 

post #195 of 229
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ernest Jones View Post


Can't say for certain which tees he played from but I think it was the tournament tees. In any case he said it was loooong and this guy is a legitimate scratch with some serious game.

What's the length on the second longest tees? I believe the "Masters" tees are 7400+ yards?


Did he say what he shot? Just curious.

post #196 of 229
Quote:
Originally Posted by Golfingdad View Post

Yeah, only Masters and Members, and the members are only 6365.  A scratch golfer would never consider 6300 to be long, so he must have played the Masters tees.


Yeah, 6300 would be a fine yardage for him so he must have been on the tournament tees. He's pretty well connected due to his current job, rubs shoulders with some pretty big money guys. I'll ask him next time I see him. Actually, I'll send him a text and see if he answers.
post #197 of 229
Quote:
Originally Posted by MS256 View Post


Did he say what he shot? Just curious.
Truth be told, I don't remember, it was a few years ago and we were in the middle some heavy work discussion so he didn't go into detail. He's not a buddy so I don't talk to him much but I'll try to find out.
post #198 of 229
Quote:
Originally Posted by albatross View Post
 

Give me a break.  Brandt Snedeker, one of the best putters on tour, 5 putted from 6 feet this weekend!!

 

 

It's not like this happened to every player or that it happens on every hole. It's a rare occurrence. You're trying to make a case using isolated incidents rather than looking at the facts. 

 

BTW Bubba and Spieth both made birdies on the same hole in the final round. 

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