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Young People not Playing. Golf Leagues Shrinking - Page 2

post #19 of 104
Quote:
Originally Posted by CoachinPA View Post
 

All great replies,

 

I am of the opinion that if you want something bad enough you will find ways to make it work.   I understand that not everyone can get out at 3pm but I feel like it's become a taboo subject to even think about flexing time.  People are terrified, and I get that, but does that mean that at some point in the future if your boss "requests" you work on the weekend you would give up your golf to do so?  And then what happens when he or she doesn't even ask anymore but just expects it?

 

The job market is extremely competitive now so i guess the mentality could be "well if you're not willing to do it, I got 15 resumes on my desk of people who will"

 

You say you understand but apparently, you really don't.   Employees don't get to decide whether their job has flexible hours.   That is reserved for the business owner and if he/she expects to be successful, they are going to primarily base their decisions not on what is best for the employee's fun, but on what is best for the fiscal health of their business.   An employee telling the boss he/she won't work weekends if needed and asking to take off early one day a week, is likely to find themselves looking for a new job and in case you haven't been paying attention, finding a new one is not exactly guaranteed.

 

Rather than questioning the priorities/dedication to golf of those who can't take off from work early to play in a league, I think you might want to instead, just thank your lucky stars your job allows you to do so..

post #20 of 104
Quote:
Originally Posted by teamroper60 View Post
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by CoachinPA View Post
 

All great replies,

 

I am of the opinion that if you want something bad enough you will find ways to make it work.   I understand that not everyone can get out at 3pm but I feel like it's become a taboo subject to even think about flexing time.  People are terrified, and I get that, but does that mean that at some point in the future if your boss "requests" you work on the weekend you would give up your golf to do so?  And then what happens when he or she doesn't even ask anymore but just expects it?

 

The job market is extremely competitive now so i guess the mentality could be "well if you're not willing to do it, I got 15 resumes on my desk of people who will"

 

You say you understand but apparently, you really don't.   Employees don't get to decide whether their job has flexible hours.   That is reserved for the business owner and if he/she expects to be successful, they are going to primarily base their decisions not on what is best for the employee's fun, but on what is best for the fiscal health of their business.   An employee telling the boss he/she won't work weekends if needed and asking to take off early one day a week, is likely to find themselves looking for a new job and in case you haven't been paying attention, finding a new one is not exactly guaranteed.

 

Rather than questioning the priorities/dedication to golf of those who can't take off from work early to play in a league, I think you might want to instead, just thank your lucky stars you have a job..

 

I edited that a bit.

post #21 of 104
Quote:
Originally Posted by BuckeyeNut View Post
 

The state of golf is fine.....

 

With regard to leagues, I will never play in one........NOT EVER.   When I play weekday evenings, I make damn sure I am in front of them........... I can loop around and play 18 in the time it takes them to play 9.   I want no part of that league play/slow play clusterFK. 

You must have bad leagues near you.

 

My work league closed after 40 years do to low numbers this year.  It has mostly to do with what the OP was talking about.  We were bought in 2006 by a larger company.  The company that bought us gives lots of lip service about work life balance, but in actuality it is the opposite.  The people at the site are terrified to do things like golf leagues.  That is why they can't hold onto young talented employees.  I have since joined another league with retired friends.

 

My son plays, but not in a league.  They hit the course in the summer at 5 or even later and play until dark.  The league format gave us a way to play during the week instead of just on weekends.  In some respects this helped the industry.  But it also prevent non-league players from getting rounds in.  I would play more afterwork if I had access more.  

post #22 of 104

3 p.m. is about the time that A Block gets yard time. Of course 10 minutes is entirely too short to play golf.

 

Seriously though, it isn't just having the time. It's reliably having the time. I might be able to get out of the office on a given afternoon, but to do so each week isn't likely.

post #23 of 104
Quote:
Originally Posted by BuckeyeNut View Post
 

The state of golf is fine.....

 

With regard to leagues, I will never play in one........NOT EVER.   When I play weekday evenings, I make damn sure I am in front of them........... I can loop around and play 18 in the time it takes them to play 9.   I want no part of that league play/slow play clusterFK. 

I can definitely agree with this. I remember calling off of work one day last July to go out and try to play 36. My father called off work to go with me as well. I call the course and confirm that I'm free to get out at my 7:15 AM tee time and they give me the "Yep! Come on down!". We get there and low and behold, what do we see? A women's golf league which consists of some women walking and some women riding.. while in the same group. Lot's of chit-chat and slow walking, no ready golf, nothing resembling the game we knew whatsoever. 5 1/2 hours later we got our 18 holes done. We left that course pretty heated about it taking nearly 6 hours for 18 holes and tried to play 9 at another. We were told a men's league was "nearly done" with the back, so we went off the back. We caught the men's league at the 12th and it took nearly 2.5 hours to play 9 holes. 9 hours to play 27 holes...

I personally will never play in a league for this reason either. I'm definitely not uppity and I am extremely laid back when I play. But, I don't have the patience to spend 5+hours playing 18 holes. Only one golfer that I know of is in a league which takes ~4 hours for 18.

post #24 of 104
Quote:
Originally Posted by teamroper60 View Post
 

You say you understand but apparently, you really don't.   Employees don't get to decide whether their job has flexible hours.   That is reserved for the business owner and if he/she expects to be successful, they are going to primarily base their decisions not on what is best for the employee's fun, but on what is best for the fiscal health of their business.   An employee telling the boss he/she won't work weekends if needed and asking to take off early one day a week, is likely to find themselves looking for a new job and in case you haven't been paying attention, finding a new one is not exactly guaranteed.

 

Rather than questioning the priorities/dedication to golf of those who can't take off from work early to play in a league, I think you might want to instead, just thank your lucky stars your job allows you to do so..

 

I think you nailed it.

 

OP wants to treat this like anyone who doesn't leave work in the middle of the day on a weekly basis is a coward or a slave or something.  Even outside the hobson's choice scenario--work or be fired--that some people may face, those of us with more flexibility may still not be able to fit in leaving work at 2 or 3pm on a regular basis.  For example, there might be things that often come up at 3pm that require their attention.  

post #25 of 104

The thread starter sounds like he's got a beef with corporate America.  He seems to ignore the fact that now, more than ever, professionals have the ability to telecommute and work flex schedules to better accommodate their personal lives.

 

Non-professional / non-skilled workers don't get those perks because someone has to be there to take your order at McDonalds or ring up your items at Walmart.

post #26 of 104
I also think corporate america has, to a degree, changed its view on golf. I work in an industry (banking) that has always had ties (both real and perceived) to golf, however, the days of taking off early to catch a round with co-workers or a client whenever you wanted to are long gone. Sure, golf is still very much an acceptable means of client entertainment but not nearly to the degree it used to be given the increased focus on keeping expenses down.
post #27 of 104
My club has one weekday round per month. When I was in school, I could take a day off to play. Now that I'm a teacher, that option isn't there (although my summer school teaching schedule - at least for this upcoming summer - is set in such a way that it will be, since that's a lighter class load).
post #28 of 104
Thread Starter 

Its definitely a good discussion.  I do understand all the arguments.  I really do.  I'm just pointing out the shift in corporate America I guess.  Whereas the older employees are more likely to have participated in leagues and now the younger employees rarely do.  ---- boogielicious---- I'm glad to see that someone else has seen this effect.  We get the same BS line about Work/Life Balance.... make sure you don't burn yourself out/ ignore your life cause you're working too much...........that's bad for your stress/health/relationships.......  and then the upper management comes along and gives lines like we expect everyone to have a goal this year of 2-4 uncompensated overtime hours a week to reduce overhead costs.....

 

one other point.  My company just closed down 5 sites across the country.   The decision to close those sites and force either layoffs or relocations was made by someone who has never seen these people, doesn't care about their names or whether they worked 40 hrs or 60 hours a week for 40 hrs pay.  It doesn't really matter.   Obviously this applies to larger companies only.

 

We are lucky enough to be able to work hours in any combination I want during the week as long as we get to 40.  so it could be 10,10,10,10 and then 3 days off if you wanted.  we can also telecommute, AND we can set our own schedules.  6AM to 3PM no problem  10AM to 6PM no problem.  At home from 11pm to 1 AM doesn't matter.....    so even with all of these options and with 3000 employees we can't get 1-2 people to take 2 hours a week to play 9 holes

post #29 of 104
Quote:
Originally Posted by GangGreen View Post

I also think corporate america has, to a degree, changed its view on golf. I work in an industry (banking) that has always had ties (both real and perceived) to golf, however, the days of taking off early to catch a round with co-workers or a client whenever you wanted to are long gone. Sure, golf is still very much an acceptable means of client entertainment but not nearly to the degree it used to be given the increased focus on keeping expenses down.

Part of that is due to changes in tax codes.  Country club memberships used to be an item that could be claimed as a business expense (write off) but it is no longer permitted without fear of triggering an audit. 

post #30 of 104
Quote:
Originally Posted by CoachinPA View Post
 

 

 

one other point.  My company just closed down 5 sites across the country.   The decision to close those sites and force either layoffs or relocations was made by someone who has never seen these people, doesn't care about their names or whether they worked 40 hrs or 60 hours a week for 40 hrs pay.  It doesn't really matter.   Obviously this applies to larger companies only.

 

 

 

I guess you would prefer the company keep operating those locations at a loss?  And then have to shut down every location?

 

I highly doubt the company would shut down a profitable location for vindictive reasons.

post #31 of 104
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave2512 View Post
 

I am self employed and our league is an all day event, one side is league play open to close and I still can't make it work. For me the issue isn't finding the time but that by the time I can get out there  isn't anyone to play with. League rules state we must play with another men's club member. Those that are still around are typically in the bar drinking or just finishing. Fun as it would be I can't justify the hassle. Without fail every time I sneak away from work to golf something bad happens. My employees become very needy when they know I am out trying to have fun. Usually before I can get through the first hole my phone has rang at least ten times.

 

Maybe you need more dependable employees? :smartass:

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by newtogolf View Post
 

The thread starter sounds like he's got a beef with corporate America.  He seems to ignore the fact that now, more than ever, professionals have the ability to telecommute and work flex schedules to better accommodate their personal lives.

 

Non-professional / non-skilled workers don't get those perks because someone has to be there to take your order at McDonalds or ring up your items at Walmart.

 

You leave out a huge part of the work force who are skilled craftsmen who are building and maintaining the infrastructure which helps to give you professionals the luxury of flex time.   I was one of those people, and at times I had some limited flexibility in the hours I worked, but at other times there was no option but to work until 5 or 6 (and sometimes it got a lot later than that - I've been known to work as much as a 17 hour day).  The work had to get done to meet assembly or delivery deadlines, and while modern CNC machine tools are quite smart, they still don't generally answer the phone or work with no supervision except under certain conditions in dedicated production runs.  They definitely don't self program or devise solutions to problems independently.  Customers paying $1.5 million for a machine expect it to be delivered on time.  

 

On topic:  My home course started evening leagues typically at 4:30 or 5.  All leagues were 9 holes and that was plenty of time to finish and be off the course by 7:30 or shortly after, depending on the number of groups in the league.  Most after work leagues were 4 - 5 groups (16-20 players).  A league starting at 5 would have the last group off by 5:36 and finished before 8.  That meant that most people could find a way to play in such a league if they really wanted to.  I even played in a league with my wife's company for a couple of years, although leagues aren't really my thing.  I prefer my weekend tournament club because I like playing "by the rules" golf better than what most leagues play.  It was fun to just play the occasional social round though too as long as it didn't get too strange.

post #32 of 104
Quote:
Originally Posted by dsc123 View Post

 

I think you nailed it.

 

OP wants to treat this like anyone who doesn't leave work in the middle of the day on a weekly basis is a coward or a slave or something.  Even outside the hobson's choice scenario--work or be fired--that some people may face, those of us with more flexibility may still not be able to fit in leaving work at 2 or 3pm on a regular basis.  For example, there might be things that often come up at 3pm that require their attention.  

 



More or less I think the OP is attempting to validate his original point by bringing up another equally irrelevant point. Golf is fine. If it is struggling it is only because everything else is struggling. For every golf is dying thread there is a companion slow play thread claiming courses are overrun with miscreants. Some of it may be perception or regional differences. Here leagues aren't struggling and enrollment is 100%. Courses that just offer men's and women's leagues typically do have a majority of older members for a variety of reasons. Those that have junior and couples leagues have more younger participation. But not one is begging for members.
post #33 of 104

At my course we have the same problem with nobody able to play because they cant get off work in time.  Plus in my area most people commute to work 20-30 miles each way, so if they have to drive to course it could be 30 minutes of driving.

 

 

So to get more people to play, we went to a team format.  You can have up to 9 people on a team and only 4 play each week.  If you can play and its not your week, we always have side games for those that show up and are not needed for there team.  Of the 4 that play, they are ranked 1 through 4 and you play the other teams player ranked the same.   I work random 12 hour days, so normally I am never scheduled.  I play in at least half the matches throughout the year r/t someones kid has a ballgame, on vacation, cant get off work in time, etc.

 

We T off between 515 and 530.  It is a shotgun start, so that most everyone is off course by 730, and 8 at the latest.

post #34 of 104

Able to get out of work early is a privilege, not an entitlement.   So is telecommuting.   If company does not allow them, that's their right.   This has nothing to do with golf, bowling, etc..  As I said earlier, blaming the dwindling league participation on corporate America is a red herring.   If I want to play in afternoon league bad enough, I will just take 1/2 day off if my employer is not flexible.  

post #35 of 104
Thread Starter 

I'm surprised at the response.  I figured if I would get a sympathetic ear anywhere it would be on a golf forum....

 

 

I'm not saying golf is dying 100%.  I agree that my original point can lead towards that conclusion.  I was just trying to state that it would be nice to get some younger players who we can play with for years to come. 

 

It could just be the field I am in.  Big engineering company.  Maybe there are just too many people who don't know the difference between a birdie and a shuttlecock

post #36 of 104
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by rkim291968 View Post
 

Able to get out of work early is a privilege, not an entitlement.   So is telecommuting.   If company does not allow them, that's their right.   This has nothing to do with golf, bowling, etc..  As I said earlier, blaming the dwindling league participation on corporate America is a red herring.   If I want to play in afternoon league bad enough, I will just take 1/2 day off if my employer is not flexible.  


Agree completely,  Like i said earlier.  I'm one to believe that if you want it enough you will make it happen.  I'm not blaming the corporations, I'm blaming the employees for not keeping work/life balance. 

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