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Young People not Playing. Golf Leagues Shrinking - Page 4

post #55 of 104
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by teamroper60 View Post
 

You don't get to set their priorities and "blaming" them for not choosing to spend their time the same way you do, seems almost adolescent.  


Right.  So the obvious next question would be why are there no young people with golf as a priority?  It's no different than the original topic of the thread.

 

I'm bringing up observations from 15 years of league golf.  These are people who "say" they would like to play, but when it comes time to put up or shut up they always have an excuse as to why they cant.

post #56 of 104
Quote:
Originally Posted by CoachinPA View Post
 


Right.  So the obvious next question would be why are there no young people with golf as a priority?  It's no different than the original topic of the thread.

 

I'm bringing up observations from 15 years of league golf.  These are people who "say" they would like to play, but when it comes time to put up or shut up they always have an excuse as to why they cant.

They could say they would like to play to be polite, or they would like to play but don't because;

  • They don't have the disposable income to waste on a round of golf
  • They don't want to embarrass themselves because they aren't very good golfers
  • They have more important or fun things to do when you ask
  • A combination of these reasons and a million more

 

Golf isn't like bowling.  With bowling, anyone can throw on a pair of shoes and throw a ball down the alley.  Most people don't care what their bowling score is (except leagues) so if they only play once it's not a big deal if they suck.

 

Golfing for guys that don't play well is not typically fun.  Slicing balls into the woods, hacking up sod, looking for mishit balls while others wait on you is not the ideal way to spend the day unless you're really into golf and committed to getting better.

post #57 of 104

This thread hits on a lot of the issues the game is going to face over the next 20+ years. The baby boomers were the most successful generation of all time with more disposable income and free time to spend on golf than any generation to follow them.  I'm in my late 20s and of my 10 or so buddies who play golf, I'm the only one who has the work flexibility to play during the week. It's sad how little say people have over their lives/work now.

post #58 of 104
Quote:
Originally Posted by CoachinPA View Post
 


Right.  So the obvious next question would be why are there no young people with golf as a priority?  It's no different than the original topic of the thread.

Generally speaking, the younger generation is a far different group than those prior.  Right, wrong or indifferent, they grew up playing with electronics.   They have 700 friends on facebook but only 2 they actually know.   Their idea of socialization is to get on facebook, twitter and skype or to play an online game with a bunch of anonymous people who they only know by some screenname (much like many here).   They become good at the games they play by buying books of "cheats" for them, because they want to win and win now   They would not want to be bothered to play an actual, physical game that requires years of practice to achieve something above mediocrity.   

 

 

post #59 of 104
Quote:
Originally Posted by teamroper60 View Post
 

Generally speaking, the younger generation is a far different group than those prior.  Right, wrong or indifferent, they grew up playing with electronics.   They have 700 friends on facebook but only 2 they actually know.   Their idea of socialization is to get on facebook, twitter and skype or to play an online game with a bunch of anonymous people who they only know by some screenname (much like many here).   They become good at the games they play by buying books of "cheats" for them, because they want to win and win now   They would not want to be bothered to play an actual, physical game that requires years of practice to achieve something above mediocrity.   

I think you're generalizing and that's not exactly fair to the "generation" as a whole. I think you are skipping over a ton of facts, such as that this technology craze is relied upon by so many people and for so many reasons. The previous generations did not have this technology available, so they were obviously not as reliant upon it. How many offices in the professional workplace can you think of which do not incorporate a computer? I can assure you that the majority of the younger generation today is not cooped up in their mother's basement heating up hot pockets and going on Red Bull and Call of Duty benders. This is a stereotype and rash generalization that too many people use to quickly and incorrectly assess people <30 today. 

Now, your generalization is probably spot-on for a lot of youths. But, it's not the majority and therefore I can't see it as a major problem yet. The problem that you mentioned is probably a small percentage of "Why is interest in Golf dwindling, or remaining stagnant as best?", but it's not a leading factor.

I don't claim to have the answers, but I'm not willing to lay blame on technology and my generation's attachment to their devices on the flat-lining pulse of golf today.

Stereotypes can create major problems, so this why I don't agree with claiming the younger generations are lazy, lacking work ethic and placing more value on online alias's than family, friends and outdoor activity (anything requiring physical exertion). Remember, the stereotype in golf is that it is a white-collar game played by boring businessmen who are egotistical and typically sexist, cigar-smoking, brandy-slurping snakes who are all about money. It's also a very boring game and lacks any real skill or excitement. I mean, who the hell wants to pay $50-150 to go whack a ball around somebody's back yard for 4 hours? See what I did there?

Somebody will spark interest in golf one day with some crazy idea or marketing pitch, but until something drastic happens to garner that attention and interest we're going to continue to see a steady, yet stagnant, golf industry. People who are unaware of golf and it's rewarding qualities are going to need a push to convince them that this is a fun and rewarding game. That this game has physical and mental challenges that can both drive you insane and make your day within a period of 10 minutes. That this game is not what they see in movies and on TV in regards to country clubs and ritzy people discussing business and trade. That this game does not have to cost you hundreds of dollars per month and can be very affordable if you do some research and play within your means. This is my opinion.

post #60 of 104
Quote:
Originally Posted by Spyder View Post
 

I think you're generalizing and that's not exactly fair to the "generation" as a whole. I think you are skipping over a ton of facts, such as that this technology craze is relied upon by so many people and for so many reasons. The previous generations did not have this technology available, so they were obviously not as reliant upon it. How many offices in the professional workplace can you think of which do not incorporate a computer? I can assure you that the majority of the younger generation today is not cooped up in their mother's basement heating up hot pockets and going on Red Bull and Call of Duty benders. This is a stereotype and rash generalization that too many people use to quickly and incorrectly assess people <30 today. 

Now, your generalization is probably spot-on for a lot of youths. But, it's not the majority and therefore I can't see it as a major problem yet. The problem that you mentioned is probably a small percentage of "Why is interest in Golf dwindling, or remaining stagnant as best?", but it's not a leading factor.

You don't have to think I was generalizing.   When I started my comments with "Generally speaking" it was a huge clue I was doing so.   I was not laying blame on technology or anyone or anything either.   Nor was I proclaiming your generation to be lazy.   It was a general statement about how your generation is much different than prior generations.  That said, my assessment is still accurate.  In fact, I ran it by my 3 daughters who are all in their mid 20's and they agreed it was a good characterization of their generation, particularly where it concerned social relationships and the reliance on computers.  "Nailed it" was the term used by one of them, while another bemoaned the trend for young men to think it appropriate to ask a young woman out via a message on facebook.   Some of your own comments show just how accurate the description was well ("....your generalization is probably spot-on for a lot of youths." ; ".....my generation's attachment to their devices").  Are there exceptions to the generalization?  Absolutely!   My daughters would be exceptions (though many of their friends fit the description perfectly).   You may be one as well for all I know but the fact you took it not only out of the context it was intended, but also as an attack, seems to indicate it must have hit pretty close to home for you..   Again however, it was not meant as an indictment.

post #61 of 104
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by skydog View Post
 

This thread hits on a lot of the issues the game is going to face over the next 20+ years. The baby boomers were the most successful generation of all time with more disposable income and free time to spend on golf than any generation to follow them.  I'm in my late 20s and of my 10 or so buddies who play golf, I'm the only one who has the work flexibility to play during the week. It's sad how little say people have over their lives/work now.


You hit one of my big points.  I think its caused by many factors.  One of the biggest is that if you're not willing to work 60hrs a week they can find someone else who will.  It would only be an option if everyone said I'm not working more than 40 a week.  Of course that likely won't happen, although I could see at some point in the future the government setting a lower work hour standard law, forcing companies to hire more employees for the same set of hours rather than have 1 employee work them all.   So 2 people to work 6 hours instead of 1 person working 12... I feel that's where we are going... like pretty soon an entire walmart will be run by 3 people...LoL

post #62 of 104
Quote:
Originally Posted by teamroper60 View Post
 

You don't have to think I was generalizing.   When I started my comments with "Generally speaking" it was a huge clue I was doing so.


Eh.. I'll be short and sweet. I didn't take your post as an attack. I think you're simply off-base and your opinion is wrong. I provided an elaborate response as to why I think your opinion was wrong. Judging by your response, I think you're the one who feels attacked and you shouldn't because that was not my intention. It's hard to take you seriously though and have an intelligent conversation/debate when you respond like an adolescent.

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by teamroper60 View Post
 

Generally speaking, the younger generation is a far different group than those prior.  Right, wrong or indifferent, they grew up playing with electronics.   They have 700 friends on facebook but only 2 they actually know.   Their idea of socialization is to get on facebook, twitter and skype or to play an online game with a bunch of anonymous people who they only know by some screenname (much like many here).   They become good at the games they play by buying books of "cheats" for them, because they want to win and win now   They would not want to be bothered to play an actual, physical game that requires years of practice to achieve something above mediocrity.   

Quote:
Originally Posted by teamroper60 View Post
 

 I was not laying blame on technology or anyone or anything either.   Nor was I proclaiming your generation to be lazy.   

 

I believe you contradicted yourself. Your entire first post contains the idea that "kids these days are too addicted to Facebook and games and their online friends". You follow that up in your defensive post by proclaiming that you weren't laying blame on technology? You stated that youths can't be bothered to play "an actual, physical game that requires years of practice to achieve something above mediocrity", yet you then say you are not calling the younger generation lazy?

You should re-read your posts and collect your thoughts.

post #63 of 104
Quote:
Originally Posted by teamroper60 View Post
 

You don't have to think I was generalizing.   When I started my comments with "Generally speaking" it was a huge clue I was doing so.   I was not laying blame on technology or anyone or anything either.   Nor was I proclaiming your generation to be lazy.   It was a general statement about how your generation is much different than prior generations.  That said, my assessment is still accurate.  In fact, I ran it by my 3 daughters who are all in their mid 20's and they agreed it was a good characterization of their generation, particularly where it concerned social relationships and the reliance on computers.  "Nailed it" was the term used by one of them, while another bemoaned the trend for young men to think it appropriate to ask a young woman out via a message on facebook.   Some of your own comments show just how accurate the description was well ("....your generalization is probably spot-on for a lot of youths." ; ".....my generation's attachment to their devices").  Are there exceptions to the generalization?  Absolutely!   My daughters would be exceptions (though many of their friends fit the description perfectly).   You may be one as well for all I know but the fact you took it not only out of the context it was intended, but also as an attack, seems to indicate it must have hit pretty close to home for you..   Again however, it was not meant as an indictment.

I don't think it's far off.  Technology has certainly become a major drain on our free time.  I was obsessed with computers when I was a kid (VIC-20, C 64) and I was developing game software while I was still in H.S.  I had an Atari 2600 that I played all the time with my friends.  All that said, when it was nice out, I'd prefer to be outside playing football, stickball, baseball, street hockey.   We didn't have air conditioning, so sitting in a hot house was not any fun.   We had one television in the house so when dad came home from work, the Atari got shut down until he went to bed.

 

Today we all have air conditioning, kids have computers and gaming systems in game rooms or their bedrooms.  They have smart phones, tablets, laptops so they can always be "connected".  What's become lost is idle time and disconnected time, people never disconnect, not even adults.  We had a party for my kids last week, everyone, including my 70 year old dad and uncle were constantly checking their smart phones.   Go to a business meeting and everyone is fiddling with their phones during a meeting.  It got so bad I banned smart phones from my meetings, it served two purposes, it kept them focused on the meeting and it kept the meetings short because some would get anxiety that they were detached from their phones.

 

People still find time to do things that are important to them, the difference is what the priority level is compared to past generations.

post #64 of 104
Quote:
Originally Posted by Spyder View Post
 


Eh.. I'll be short and sweet. I didn't take your post as an attack. I think you're simply off-base and your opinion is wrong. I provided an elaborate response as to why I think your opinion was wrong. Judging by your response, I think you're the one who feels attacked and you shouldn't because that was not my intention. It's hard to take you seriously though and have an intelligent conversation/debate when you respond like an adolescent.

 

 

I believe you contradicted yourself. Your entire first post contains the idea that "kids these days are too addicted to Facebook and games and their online friends". You follow that up in your defensive post by proclaiming that you weren't laying blame on technology? You stated that youths can't be bothered to play "an actual, physical game that requires years of practice to achieve something above mediocrity", yet you then say you are not calling the younger generation lazy?

You should re-read your posts and collect your thoughts.


I didn't contradict myself.   I am not blaming technology for anything, let alone the decline in golf participation.   As I said before, I am not blaming anyone or anything.   Perhaps you took the "actual physical" part differently than I intended.  If so, then I apologize for not being clear.   But let's be real, computer games are not physical games.  They are virtual games.  Aside from thumb movement, there is no other physical movements needed to play most of them.   Thus, the reason for my wording.  

 

As for facebook, Zuckerberg invented it FOR your generation.   And yes, your generation is addicted to it.  To the point many can't seem to go anywhere or do anything without posting about it on their facebook page before, during and again after they have done it.   And when we reached the point people are trying to set up dates via facebook rather than face to face, like it or not, it has gone too far. 

 

Again however, none of that was the point I was making.    My point was that your generation is very different from prior generations.   Had you actually read what I wrote, instead of what you wanted to see, you would know that.  The fact you felt the need to write 4 paragraphs defending your generation in your first response and to go on the offensive in your second clearly indicates you felt attacked and I obviously struck a nerve for you.   That was not the intent.   I suggest you do the re-reading.   But I am done with you.   This has gone far off topic.

post #65 of 104
Quote:
Originally Posted by newtogolf View Post
 

I don't think it's far off.  Technology has certainly become a major drain on our free time.  I was obsessed with computers when I was a kid (VIC-20, C 64) and I was developing game software while I was still in H.S.  I had an Atari 2600 that I played all the time with my friends.  All that said, when it was nice out, I'd prefer to be outside playing football, stickball, baseball, street hockey.   We didn't have air conditioning, so sitting in a hot house was not any fun.   We had one television in the house so when dad came home from work, the Atari got shut down until he went to bed.

 

Today we all have air conditioning, kids have computers and gaming systems in game rooms or their bedrooms.  They have smart phones, tablets, laptops so they can always be "connected".  What's become lost is idle time and disconnected time, people never disconnect, not even adults.  We had a party for my kids last week, everyone, including my 70 year old dad and uncle were constantly checking their smart phones.   Go to a business meeting and everyone is fiddling with their phones during a meeting.  It got so bad I banned smart phones from my meetings, it served two purposes, it kept them focused on the meeting and it kept the meetings short because some would get anxiety that they were detached from their phones.

 

People still find time to do things that are important to them, the difference is what the priority level is compared to past generations.

This was one of my main points...    

post #66 of 104
My 2 cents, don't blame the kids...blame their parents. If you want kids to put down the phone and pick up a putter then it's up to the parent to expose them to the game. I have 3 young and very active childred (ages 9, 11, and 14) and its not like they suddenly woke up one morning, drove themselves to the driving range or soccer field, and suddenly fell in love with the game. Yes, the days of kids playing pick-up games after school are gone, but that doesn't mean that as a parent you can't find other ways to get your kids exposed to other sports/activities. Take them to the range with you, sign them up for lacrosse, introduce them to drums, violin, art classes, etc. If they take to one of them, great, if not, keep looking.

Kid's these days are absolutely NO different then when we were their age, they ALL want to be engaged in something fun but if we don't introduce them to those things then shame on us as parents when the only activity they're good at is texting their virtual friends.

OK, I'll get off my soap box now...lol
post #67 of 104
Quote:
Originally Posted by BuckeyeNut View Post
 

The state of golf is fine.....

 

With regard to leagues, I will never play in one........NOT EVER.   When I play weekday evenings, I make damn sure I am in front of them........... I can loop around and play 18 in the time it takes them to play 9.   I want no part of that league play/slow play clusterFK. 

 

I really enjoy the golf league that I am in.  While it isn't as quick as playing by yourself, it introduces some friendly competition and a way to win some money.  The league has the ability to penalize groups for slow play and does send out communication when there are issues.  It is a good stress reliever on a Thursday to go out and have a couple beers (or soda or whatever you prefer) and play in some friendly competition.  It seems to provide good networking opportunities as well, sometimes you find others in the same field of work or interests.  However, I am sure that some leagues can be complete clusters and ruin it for others.

post #68 of 104

My idea of the perfect weekday evening of golf is to pair up with a single or twosome at 5pm........play 9 holes in less than 2hrs with them...........I shake their hands and thank them for the good company as they depart to hole 10 as they wishfully hope to finish 18 before dark behind the masses that always bunch up on the back before dark.   I loop back to play the front again as it is now nearly empty this late in the evening.  As a single...I cruise through my 2nd nine to complete 18 before 8pm with plenty of daylight to spare......this is how I roll. 

 

The thought of league play makes me cringe............... I've played enough weekday evening golf over the past 20+ years to know I want nothing to do with "That Bunch".

post #69 of 104
Thread Starter 
Bringing this up again.... My mother in law showed me a newspaper article pretty much detailing the point of this thread.

it was saying that in the last 10 years golf has lost like 5 million players ( im assuming worldwide).

here is an example of things they are trying.... 15 inch cup!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/more-sports/score-15-inch-wide-cup-open-golf-article-1.1761994
post #70 of 104
Quote:
Originally Posted by CoachinPA View Post

Bringing this up again.... My mother in law showed me a newspaper article pretty much detailing the point of this thread.

it was saying that in the last 10 years golf has lost like 5 million players ( im assuming worldwide).

here is an example of things they are trying.... 15 inch cup!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/more-sports/score-15-inch-wide-cup-open-golf-article-1.1761994

 

You know, this forum has many things besides this one. 

 

Like…  TaylorMade Proposes 15 Inch holes! and  Hack Golf Initiative . Every page has a search bar at the top, too.

post #71 of 104
The observation that young people are playing less, and the Golf Leagues shrinking might also be because of two separate reasons.

Kids tend to play more video games and or go on Facebook rather than play a round of golf. Many do not have as much discipline to play a full round, much less practice to become proficient enough to enjoy it. Of the kids that have the discipline have too much homework or other activities to remain academically competitive with the rest of the world. A round of golf is an eternity of time they can't afford.

I started golfing specifically to spend more time with my kids, and am enjoying it more as we all get better at it.

Golf leagues generally like to play full 18 hole rounds, and it takes a good amount of time. People who work can't really take that much time out for a leisure activity. Even though I have flexible hours and "could" step out for a round, I don't have the time. I certainly can't predict my schedule that I could take a fixed time off every week. I am guessing many people are in my predicament. Again to keep up with the global market, where any of us can be replaced with someone abroad.
post #72 of 104
FWIW, I'd be willing to bet that the gap in participation between older and younger generations (if we're to accept the OP's assumption that it is growing) is mostly monetary.

Every generation in history has said that the ones younger than them are lazy, have short attention spans, don't put in the hard work, etc. That's not changed.
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