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Spieth v McIlroy - The Millenials' Tiger v Phil? - Page 2

post #19 of 57

Excellent topic.  I can see Spieth and McIlroy fighting it out in Major Championships for a long period of time, but have to agree that there are some huge talents appearing on the Tour right now who will also challenge the duo. Patrick Reed leads the way right now, with Harris English not far behind. I also rate Russell Henley very highly and I think that he will become an established part of the OWGR Top 50 and challenge for Major wins further down the line.

post #20 of 57
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by SteveBamford View Post

Excellent topic.

Thanks for the vote of confidence Steve, neither Crim, nor Patrick Reed's Ego think this topic is very compelling. Lol.
post #21 of 57

Golf history has a few players who showed a lot of potential but didn't really fulfill expectations. Hope Spieth isn't another Tom Weiskopf. Only time will tell.   I think a lot of people have already annoited Spieth. Premature, maybe?   We'll see....BTW, odds for next US Open. Patrick Reed was mysteriously omitted for some reason.

 

 

 

 

The favorites 2014 US Open Pinehurst, NC.

Rory McIlroy: 10-1
Tiger Woods: 10-1

 

The other favorites

Adam Scott: 12-1
Phil Mickelson: 16-1

Fringe favorites

Henrik Stenson: 22-1
Justin Rose: 22-1
Bubba Watson: 25-1
Jason Day: 25-1
Jordan Spieth: 25-1
Matt Kuchar: 28-1

The rest

 

Dustin Johnson: 33-1
Graeme McDowell: 33-1
Lee Westwood: 33-1
Zach Johnson: 33-1
Brandt Snedeker: 40-1
Charl Schwartzel: 40-1
Hunter Mahan: 40-1
Jason Dufner: 40-1
Luke Donald: 40-1
Sergio Garcia: 40-1
Keegan Bradley: 50-1
Rickie Fowler: 50-1
Steve Stricker: 50-1
Webb Simpson: 50-1

 

I really like everybody at 40-1 and down. Seriously, all of them make for great bets. Also, two I didn't list that are incredibly enticing are Louis Oosthuizen (66-1) and Harris English (80-1).

 

Tiger fans would get refunded if he doesn't play but if you're wagering on Tiger at 10-1 to win any competition outside the confines of his backyard then you have, as David Feherty said on Sunday "lost your marbles."

 

http://www.cbssports.com/golf/eye-on-golf/24526624/us-open-odds-tiger-woods-and-rory-mcilroy-are-at-the-top

post #22 of 57

@Rick Martin ,

 

Why do you continue to dig your grave with every post?  It is astoundingly immature of you to constantly dig at Woods in order to pick an argument in any thread possible.  

post #23 of 57
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jakester23 View Post

6-7 majors seriously? Have you ever looked at how many players have more than 5 majors? There's only 13 players with more than 5. I would be surprised if either gets to 7.

Yes, but each generation has had a couple of guys go for 6+ over the last 75 years so it's likely this generation will as well. Do you have a better guess at to who it might be other than Rors and Spieth??

 

Rory already has two so if he only finishes with 6, that would be somewhat underwhelming. The jury is still somehwat out for me on Spieth but I think he's going to at least win a handful of majors.

post #24 of 57
Who has over 6 in this generation besides tiger? I'd say neither but if I'd have to pick it would be Rory because of him having 2 already. I think spieth will have more wins than Rory maybe not more majors.
post #25 of 57

I haven't seen enough of either of them to even put Spieth's chances ahead of Reed's chances.

 

Spieth had a better Masters. That only tells me he had a better week. Nothing more and nothing less.

 

There may be some 17 year old kid that we've never heard of that takes Majors away from all of them.

 

Seems like the trend for Majors lately is that any one of about 10 guys with plenty of distance can have a really good week driving the ball and that guy with the confidence to pull out a driver and take a rip is usually going win. The rest may go down in flames but all it takes is one guy.

 

I wouldn't bet any money on any of them winning more than 2 or 3 Majors.

post #26 of 57
Quote:
Originally Posted by MS256 View Post

I haven't seen enough of either of them to even put Spieth's chances ahead of Reed's chances.

Spieth had a better Masters. That only tells me he had a better week. Nothing more and nothing less.

There may be some 17 year old kid that we've never heard of that takes Majors away from all of them.

Seems like the trend for Majors lately is that any one of about 10 guys with plenty of distance can have a really good week driving the ball and that guy with the confidence to pull out a driver and take a rip is usually going win. The rest may go down in flames but all it takes is one guy.

I wouldn't bet any money on any of them winning more than 2 or 3 Majors.
Exactly who knows Rory might never win another one. There's a lot of good players that don't have one. I think Jason Day will get one maybe a few same with DJ. I can go on and on with guys like that.
post #27 of 57
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jakester23 View Post

Who has over 6 in this generation besides tiger? I'd say neither but if I'd have to pick it would be Rory because of him having 2 already. I think spieth will have more wins than Rory maybe not more majors.

 

OK, if you want to nitpick Phil is one short of 6 right now (but will likely pick up another before it's said and done). If he doesn't the Tiger/Phil generation would be the exception not the norm; all other generations have had at least two guys with 6+.

post #28 of 57
Quote:
Originally Posted by skydog View Post
 

OK, if you want to nitpick Phil is one short of 6 right now (but will likely pick up another before it's said and done). If he doesn't the Tiger/Phil generation would be the exception not the norm; all other generations have had at least two guys with 6+.

 

I wouldn't call it the exception. I'd call it the new norm.

 

It was much easier to dominate when the list of potential major winners was only about 15 names long.

post #29 of 57
Quote:
Originally Posted by iacas View Post
 

 

I wouldn't call it the exception. I'd call it the new norm.

 

It was much easier to dominate when the list of potential major winners was only about 15 names long.


obviously, we'll see. I think there always will be that handful of guys who distinguish themselves in sports. We see it in tennis and basketball, other individual (semi-individual) sports that a handful of players have a chance to win it and that's all. Granted both of those sports differ from golf in that players can play defense.

 

For example, as great an athlete DJ is, he doesn't seem to have the mental make-up to win majors and same with gary woodland. They seem to lack the complete game. Dominique Wilkins was every bit as talented as Jordan, but didn't have that mental focus/drive. Talent only gets someone so far, and there always comes that handful who have the mental ability to keep it together for 4 days week in and week out. Greg Norman, all the talent in the world, 2 majors. Sergio, great talent, zero majors. Phil, for the longest time, couldn't keep it together.

 

In pro sports, there's a lot of money to be made in just being good enough, so motivation is easy to lose. It takes a crazy amount of drive to put someone over the top, and I think there will always be that guy who just HAS to win everything.

post #30 of 57
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by jgreen85 View Post


obviously, we'll see. I think there always will be that handful of guys who distinguish themselves in sports. We see it in tennis and basketball, other individual (semi-individual) sports that a handful of players have a chance to win it and that's all. Granted both of those sports differ from golf in that players can play defense.

For example, as great an athlete DJ is, he doesn't seem to have the mental make-up to win majors and same with gary woodland. They seem to lack the complete game. Dominique Wilkins was every bit as talented as Jordan, but didn't have that mental focus/drive. Talent only gets someone so far, and there always comes that handful who have the mental ability to keep it together for 4 days week in and week out. Greg Norman, all the talent in the world, 2 majors. Sergio, great talent, zero majors. Phil, for the longest time, couldn't keep it together.

In pro sports, there's a lot of money to be made in just being good enough, so motivation is easy to lose. It takes a crazy amount of drive to put someone over the top, and I think there will always be that guy who just HAS to win everything.

Totally agree about mental determination/strength. It's why I put Spieth and Rors ahead of the pack. They seem to have a great mental make-up, which hopefully will translate into many majors for each and a long-term rivalry.
post #31 of 57
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gunther View Post


Totally agree about mental determination/strength. It's why I put Spieth and Rors ahead of the pack. They seem to have a great mental make-up, which hopefully will translate into many majors for each and a long-term rivalry.

IMO, I don't see much in terms of Speith's mental make up that's noteworthy. Can you really say his mental make up is better then Reed, Henley, or Fowler? I hope he's not just hype, but to piggy back of @MS256's comment, all I saw was a guy who had a good master's week.

 

As Jack said in one of Tiger's old documentaries...I'll paraphrase "There are guys who can hit it longer than Tiger, and putt better than Tiger, but can they do when it's really needed? That's where Tiger's different."  I may see a bit of that in Rory, but can't say the same for Speith YET. I like em both, and I hope they light it up soon.

post #32 of 57

i think a lot of you just dont realize how incredible it is for rory(23 years old) to have already won two majors. ya no1 can see into the future but he is definitely on pace to win 6 or 7 majors. . jordan on the other hand was the youngest player to play on president cup and he was so close to winning the masters in his debut. id predict him to win 5 majors in his career. i dont think either of them will ever come close to tiger but they have the potential to b like phil

post #33 of 57
Just my opinion here and I have no stats to quote or anything, just gut feeling but, when these guys are both on their "A" game I truly believe that Rory > Jordan. When Rory is winning he's winning by a LOT of strokes. I think Spieth will have a great career, maybe win a major(s), maybe not, tons of great players with no majors (hello Norman). Rory OTOH is multiple major winner already and I have a 9 iron that's older than him. Let's not forget that Rory didn't back into those majors or have them handed to him by a faltering leader, he absolutely ran away with them. Heck, technically speaking he's eligible for the HOF already...
post #34 of 57

I don't think there will be such a domination as Tiger and Phil had in those years.

There are plenty more great players out there now. You really do the rest off the 

field short by thinking this way. Spieth was in contention at the Masters but Rory wasn't.

I can easy name 10 who can win the next major.

post #35 of 57

I don't think it will be likely that someone will provide the domination like woods for quite awhile. But when I think about it, like what will the next Woods look like. I envision of someone 6' 4-6" and 225-250 lbs who just murders a long length course, driving several of the par fours on any course, a low stress swing, excellent short shot and putting with a lot of imagination and will.

 

It will take someone with enormous size and strength to flip and redefine the golf world around like woods did. We saw glimpse of it at this past masters. Imagine if someone could do what Bubba dis on every course, driver 8- PW on every par 5?   I just don't think we will see anyone for another decade or so.. 

 

sorry if I am off topic.

post #36 of 57
Quote:
Originally Posted by Spitfisher View Post
 

I don't think it will be likely that someone will provide the domination like woods for quite awhile. But when I think about it, like what will the next Woods look like. I envision of someone 6' 4-6" and 225-250 lbs who just murders a long length course, driving several of the par fours on any course, a low stress swing, excellent short shot and putting with a lot of imagination and will.

 

It will take someone with enormous size and strength to flip and redefine the golf world around like woods did. We saw glimpse of it at this past masters. Imagine if someone could do what Bubba dis on every course, driver 8- PW on every par 5?   I just don't think we will see anyone for another decade or so.. 

 

sorry if I am off topic.

 

Need to distinguish what we're looking for in this thread. Is it the marketing/fans that speith/mcilroy will replace or just the winning? I certainly think someone will come along and win like these guys, but bring in the fans/money? I doubt it; at least not big money domestically.

 

the thing about Tiger is more in the marketing. The ability to win is required, but not sufficient. I was 12 during the '97 Master's and I remember "ooh, a black guy is winning this really important, umm, golf tournament? what's golf?" Then came the Tiger made for TV movie where I really learned about him, his amateur career, and deal with Nike. I learned the racial (racist) history of golf. So I became a fan and then he kept winning and I became more of a fan, then I finally had money and time to play golf after I graduated college.

 

Point being, there's no mcilroy or spieth movie. There's nothing particularly interesting or differentiating about either chap. Upon learning this weekend that Spieth went to private school outside of Dallas kind of took the shine off for me. As everyone says about Arnie, he was a man of the people. Phil has been Tiger's most successful foil.

 

There's gotta be a story behind the ONE and, more importantly, a lot of $$$ being spent to promote that story. I could see someone coming out of China a la Yao Ming and bringing a lot of money from the developing world, but it'll be tough for a domestic "Tiger" to come along. Someone to match his playing ability, I have no doubt; the story? very skeptical.

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