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Promoting personal characteristics, political views, and products, among athletes in the public eye. - Page 2  

post #19 of 62
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kieran123 View Post
 

 

So, to conclude, take what parts of the bible you want?

No, understand the context through exegetical study of the text and the original language.

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kieran123 View Post

 

Homosexuality is not a religion. Homosexuality is not a choice. Homosexuality is not a multi billion dollar corrupt regime that still puts its hand out for more. Homosexuality is not fear mongering.

You can say the same of religion, that is is not a choice.  Ask a Calvinist.  Your accusations of corruption deal with an institution not the religion and that is childish to say.

 

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kieran123 View Post

 

 Homosexuality is not fear mongering..

Some are though in this group, but I realize most are not.  It does not take much to understand this.

post #20 of 62
Quote:
Originally Posted by cipher View Post
 

No, understand the context through exegetical study of the text and the original language.

 

Please. This 'argument' has been used only in modern times to dispose of any wrong doings that may occur in what we deem modern society. 500 years ago - there was no talk of context and the bible. Acts were taken BECAUSE of the bible. People were stoned, people were burned and murdered because of the bible. Because we now deem this not acceptable, the religious tout these parts of the bible as now being taken out of context.

 

There seems to be these 30% christian folks. They claim to be christian, attend church one a year, celebrate pagan holidays, read sections of the bible, take what they want form it, discard the rest and then sit back and relax.

 

Be 100% true to your religion, or not at all. Admit the bible has bad information in it, as well as good, and be done with it. That is standing by your 'faith'.

post #21 of 62
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kieran123 View Post
 

 

Please. This 'argument' has been used only in modern times to dispose of any wrong doings that may occur in what we deem modern society. 500 years ago - there was no talk of context and the bible. Acts were taken BECAUSE of the bible. People were stoned, people were burned and murdered because of the bible. Because we now deem this not acceptable, the religious tout these parts of the bible as now being taken out of context.

 

There seems to be these 30% christian folks. They claim to be christian, attend church one a year, celebrate pagan holidays, read sections of the bible, take what they want form it, discard the rest and then sit back and relax.

 

Be 100% true to your religion, or not at all. Admit the bible has bad information in it, as well as good, and be done with it. That is standing by your 'faith'.

No people were stoned and burned because the took it out of context.   You cannot be 100% true to something that encompasses two religions, sorry.

post #22 of 62
Quote:
Originally Posted by cipher View Post
 

No people were stoned and burned because the took it out of context.   You cannot be 100% true to something that encompasses two religions, sorry.

 

 

Well we aren't getting anywhere :-P - because anything bad to come from the bible is 'taken out of context' and anything good is just pure bible truth correct?

 

How can anyone take this serious when the people who follow such beliefs don't either?

 

This is specifically why christianity as a whole is dying

post #23 of 62
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kieran123 View Post
 

How can anyone take this serious when the people who follow such beliefs don't either?

For one, The Bible isn't a religion.  It's a book of stories and such that 1000's of religions use as a guideline towards their faith.  You are acting like everything is black or white.  "If you say that you are Christian then you have to agree with 100% of the entire Bible."  That's silly.

 

Also, consider the book is thousands of years old and has been translated 8 jillion times.  It's probably not always exactly "clear" what was originally meant, so people have to interpret it the best that they can.  How can you fault people if their interpretations are all slightly different?

 

A very small comparison:  If you are old enough to remember the issues we had with Libya back in the 80's (and then again a few years ago) you probably remember reading newspaper articles or Newsweek magazine and reading about Kaddafi once, then Gaddafi, then Khadafi, Ghadafi, Qadofi, Quadhaffi, etc, etc.  The languages don't translate very well so people interpret to the best of their ability.

post #24 of 62
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kieran123 View Post
 

 

 

Well we aren't getting anywhere :-P - because anything bad to come from the bible is 'taken out of context' and anything good is just pure bible truth correct?

 

How can anyone take this serious when the people who follow such beliefs don't either?

 

This is specifically why christianity as a whole is dying

 

Yep, that is what I am saying.  Thanks for letting me know what I think.

 

You tell me about any instance where Jesus stoned, burned, murdered or taught anything like it and I will agree with you.  His life is the core of Christianity, not what was passed down before his time.  You are just showing that you truly don't understand the book.

post #25 of 62
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kieran123 View Post

Homosexuality is not a religion. Homosexuality is not a choice. Homosexuality is not a multi billion dollar corrupt regime that still puts its hand out for more. Homosexuality is not fear mongering.

Homosexuality is two people of the same gender that are attracted to one another.

Regardless of what your definition of homosexuality is, 14ledo is conceding that he has no issue with your statement regardless of the reasoning for your statement, while at the same time he reserves the right to his own statement about homosexuals without the need to explain his reasoning behind it. My point is what you mentioned isn't really an answer to what 14ledo said.

Also, I want to note that the statement that homosexuality is not a choice is something that is pushed on to the public by the homosexual supporters to justify the hidious actions they do..

Anyway, from my stand point I just had one question, where would the world be if everyone turned gay? Quick answer..... Extinct in less than 110 years max..
post #26 of 62
Quote:
Originally Posted by Golfingdad View Post
 

For one, The Bible isn't a religion.  It's a book of stories and such that 1000's of religions use as a guideline towards their faith.  You are acting like everything is black or white.  "If you say that you are Christian then you have to agree with 100% of the entire Bible."  That's silly.

 

Also, consider the book is thousands of years old and has been translated 8 jillion times.  It's probably not always exactly "clear" what was originally meant, so people have to interpret it the best that they can.  How can you fault people if their interpretations are all slightly different?

 

A very small comparison:  If you are old enough to remember the issues we had with Libya back in the 80's (and then again a few years ago) you probably remember reading newspaper articles or Newsweek magazine and reading about Kaddafi once, then Gaddafi, then Khadafi, Ghadafi, Qadofi, Quadhaffi, etc, etc.  The languages don't translate very well so people interpret to the best of their ability.

 

Of course the bible isn't a religion. Like you said, it's a guideline. And every decade, those guidelines get looser and looser depending on what we as a people deem acceptable amnd what science proves as fact.

 

the Bible was written with yesterdays knowledge, we knew a lot less....religion was invented to try and answer questions society back then did not have answers for. "Childbirth is painful because a woman listened to a talking snake'

 

Leviticus 20:13 - If a man has sexual relations with a man as one does with a woman, both of them have done what is detestable. They are to be put to death; their blood will be on their own heads.

 

Religion is also based on yester years morality. Slavery was common, rape was a way of life, prejudice was rampant, woman had no rights - and the bible reflects this. It is full of ignorant truths and facts, written by uneducated thugs who believed in it.

 

There are no commandments prohibiting slavery or rape. There is no woman's equality in the bible, because woman weren't equal.

 

Translation does not delete things from the bible, woman's rights were never there, commandments surrounding rape and slavery were never there.

post #27 of 62

I like the way Bubba plays.  He has unique length and a unique swing and style of play.  So it means he tends to play the course differently than most other guys.  Plus he's really good.  So I'm interested and entertained watching when he's in the hunt.

 

And I don't have any problem with his being devoutly religious.  I just view anti-gay rights comments from an athlete the same as I would racist or anti-miscegenation comments.  I might still enjoy the entertainment of watching them perform and I recognize they have the freedom to say things I find reprehensible, but it definitely lowers my opinion of that athlete as a person and makes it harder to root enthusiastically for them.

post #28 of 62
Quote:
Originally Posted by Abu3baid View Post


Anyway, from my stand point I just had one question, where would the world be if everyone turned gay? Quick answer..... Extinct in less than 110 years max..

 

Everyone is not gay, so what's your point? Everyone's not straight either, and we're doing just fine.

 

Where would the world be without religion? Quick answer......1000 years further advanced - we could be curing cancer and aids if it wasn't for the dark ages.

post #29 of 62
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kieran123 View Post
 

 

 

There is a big difference here.

 

One promotes sexism, homophobia, slavery and prejudices

 

One of them promotes bad habits :-D

 

 

 

I think, to conclude - the person promoting does not bother me, the religion bothers me.

The same way I hate cancer, but not people with cancer

 

I feel bad for people with cancer, the same way I feel bad for people who believe in the bible.

 

I am stepping out on a limb here and guess that you had a bad personal experience with Religion?

 

Cancer is something obviously seen as a negative thing. Let's face it. Who wants it?

 

However, Religion, even blind, has saved many people.

 

Agreed that nothing should be taken without free will, this is why we have the ability to think for ourselves. We are charged with accepting a belief or not. We have the freedom to choose what and how we believe.

 

Many societies do not allow you to express this belief, but you are free to think what you want no matter what.

 

Free will is a large part of our lives, and it is the most important thing that makes our country different from many others. Many of us fought hard for that freedom. Not just soldiers, but also the many people who fought for civil rights and equality. Throughout history all the great fights for freedom were spearheaded by religious leaders. The reason is because it drives us beyond the physical comforts of our normal selves. We are much stronger with it than without.

 

Karl Marx once stated that: Religion is the sigh of the oppressed creature, the heart of a heartless world, and the soul of soulless conditions. It is the opium of the people.

http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opium_des_Volkes

 

What he means is that religion is used as a means to soothe otherwise miserable lives. Kind of like how "modern entertainment" is used now. What he did not understand was that religion makes us more than who we are. It has allowed the weak to overcome many odds in battle and life.

 

The Nazis used the writings of Friedrich Nietzsche "Also sprach Zarathustra" and "social Darwinism" taking the "The Descent of Man, and Selection in Relation to Sex" as their form of religion against Jewish and other races of people. They brought back the belief in the Norse (pagan) gods to justify the murder of millions of people because they deemed them inferior. Their goal was to prove their own racial superiority and give them the right to destroy all that contradicted it, like the Bible.

 

I would say that any belief could be a cancer, and unless there is a benevolent absolute truth that is understood and accepted by everyone in a peaceful manner, we can put ourselves in another position like the Nazis did in the last century.

 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kieran123 View Post
 

 

There are worse things said in the bible. But for many, the bible is considered the truth no matter how disgusting and shocking the subject or content, where my words are just an opinion.

 

Yes, but like anything written, anything can be interpreted towards ones own ends. This is where an understanding of absolute truths can mitigate such behavior.

post #30 of 62
Quote:
Originally Posted by newtogolf View Post
 

Agreed in the sense that both they represent extremes, liberal and conservative.  The liberal media has attacked religions and religious beliefs which is why I singled them out.

And the conservative media has attacked religions and religious beliefs that are not their own.  That is why I am equating the two.

post #31 of 62
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kieran123 View Post


This is specifically why christianity as a whole is dying

Curious your feelings about the Koran. Islam is not dying, why do you think that is?
post #32 of 62
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kieran123 View Post
 

 

Everyone is not gay, so what's your point? Everyone's not straight either, and we're doing just fine.

 

Where would the world be without religion? Quick answer......1000 years further advanced - we could be curing cancer and aids if it wasn't for the dark ages.

 

"City of Hope" is working on it and have cured many victims up to stage 3 cancer. They still have faith in being able to find a complete cure.

post #33 of 62

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gunther View Post


Curious your feelings about the Koran. Islam is not dying, why do you think that is?

 

Lack of education, lack of freedom of speech, religious oppression, extremism, fear mongering - to name a few.

post #34 of 62
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kieran123 View Post

 

Homosexuality is not a religion. Homosexuality is not a choice. Homosexuality is not a multi billion dollar corrupt regime that still puts its hand out for more. Homosexuality is not fear mongering.

Quote:
Originally Posted by cipher View Post

 

You can say the same of religion, that is is not a choice.  Ask a Calvinist.  Your accusations of corruption deal with an institution not the religion [...]

 

I'm not going to get into the Christianity debate, but this is a laughably false equivalence.  There are 2-5% of people who, if you raise them in an ideologically heterosexual culture that would deny the existence of homosexuality if asked, violently oppresses homosexuals, and makes sure as many people as possible aren't even aware that it exists, are still homosexual and are attracted exclusively to people of the same gender.  They all have the same feeling.  They are born that way.

 

It is laughable to pretend the same is true of religion.  There might be a minority of people who tend towards intense religious devotion in modern cultural contexts where religion is ubiquitous and obviously available (this availability and knowledge is there even in largely atheist/agnostic modern countries).  But raise them in a place with absolutely no concept of god or religion and claim that they'd all personally invent Calvinism (or any religion) and suffer their whole lives cause those around them would oppress them if they admitted their secret Calvinism, which just happens to be the exact same Calvinism invented personally by every other naturally born intensely religious person?  Come on.

post #35 of 62
Quote:
Originally Posted by Abu3baid View Post

Regardless of what your definition of homosexuality is, 14ledo is conceding that he has no issue with your statement regardless of the reasoning for your statement, while at the same time he reserves the right to his own statement about homosexuals without the need to explain his reasoning behind it. My point is what you mentioned isn't really an answer to what 14ledo said.

Also, I want to note that the statement that homosexuality is not a choice is something that is pushed on to the public by the homosexual supporters to justify the hidious actions they do..

Anyway, from my stand point I just had one question, where would the world be if everyone turned gay? Quick answer..... Extinct in less than 110 years max..
There is a very large biological component for homosexuality. Maybe you should do a little bit of research before making statements like that. I'm heterosexual but that statement is just downright ignorant.
post #36 of 62
Quote:
Originally Posted by Golfingdad View Post
 

For one, The Bible isn't a religion.  It's a book of stories and such that 1000's of religions use as a guideline towards their faith.  You are acting like everything is black or white.  "If you say that you are Christian then you have to agree with 100% of the entire Bible."  That's silly.

 

Also, consider the book is thousands of years old and has been translated 8 jillion times.  It's probably not always exactly "clear" what was originally meant, so people have to interpret it the best that they can.  How can you fault people if their interpretations are all slightly different?

 

There are very powerful, prominent politicians who would argue in public that the Bible is the Word of God, every word of it.  Some would argue your first paragraph is blasphemy.  They push Creationism in statewide school curriculum.  They are serious about it and want our country to become a Christian state.  

 

Most of us who were raised Christian are more in line with what you have stated.  But when Bubba or others refer to the Bible to determine their point of view on a subject like gay marriage, they are using the literal translation of certain passages as the driving factor.

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