Originally Posted by Kieran123
Of course the bible isn't a religion. Like you said, it's a guideline. And every decade, those guidelines get looser and looser depending on what we as a people deem acceptable amnd what science proves as fact.
the Bible was written with yesterdays knowledge, we knew a lot less....religion was invented to try and answer questions society back then did not have answers for. "Childbirth is painful because a woman listened to a talking snake'
Leviticus 20:13 - If a man has sexual relations with a man as one does with a woman, both of them have done what is detestable. They are to be put to death; their blood will be on their own heads.
Religion is also based on yester years morality. Slavery was common, rape was a way of life, prejudice was rampant, woman had no rights - and the bible reflects this. It is full of ignorant truths and facts, written by uneducated thugs who believed in it.
There are no commandments prohibiting slavery or rape. There is no woman's equality in the bible, because woman weren't equal.
Translation does not delete things from the bible, woman's rights were never there, commandments surrounding rape and slavery were never there.
What is wrong with us evolving as a race and allowing our view of certain things in the Bible to evolve with it? Those people that founded the United States (I know you're a Kiwi ;)) also had some pretty horrible views on slavery and women's rights, but because the world isn't black and white, we don't have to automatically discount everything they ever said just because they were dead wrong about a few things. We amend those things to fit our current views, keep the framework and foundation of the main premise, and move forward. Why can't religion or faith be the same? Why does it have to be "you believe in a talking snake or you are not religious?"
Originally Posted by mdl
I'm not going to get into the Christianity debate, but this is a laughably false equivalence. There are 2-5% of people who, if you raise them in an ideologically heterosexual culture that would deny the existence of homosexuality if asked, violently oppresses homosexuals, and makes sure as many people as possible aren't even aware that it exists, are still homosexual and are attracted exclusively to people of the same gender. They all have the same feeling. They are born that way.
It is laughable to pretend the same is true of religion. There might be a minority of people who tend towards intense religious devotion in modern cultural contexts where religion is ubiquitous and obviously available (this availability and knowledge is there even in largely atheist/agnostic modern countries). But raise them in a place with absolutely no concept of god or religion and claim that they'd all personally invent Calvinism (or any religion) and suffer their whole lives cause those around them would oppress them if they admitted their secret Calvinism, which just happens to be the exact same Calvinism invented personally by every other naturally born intensely religious person? Come on.
Except the other part of his quote is valid. Kieran was confusing faith with church. Just because there are corrupt people out there who claim Christianity doesn't mean that it's altogether wrong. It's the same thing so many in America are doing towards Muslims. A couple of crazies claim their religion as the reason for terrorism, therefore their religion is bad. That is a false equivalence.
Originally Posted by boogielicious
But when Bubba or others refer to the Bible to determine their point of view on a subject like gay marriage, they are using the literal translation of certain passages as the driving factor.
Yes, and that's why I told @Kieran123 that I believe that he's wrong about people all taking the Bible as 100% true. (Pretty sure those politicians you reference don't believe in stoning divorcee's) But if the Bible is used as an argument, then you can say "wait a minute Bubba, that doesn't fly, unless you believe in all of this other stuff because 'its in the Bible.'"