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Should you take golf lessons? Mark Crossfield says "Maybe not.."

post #1 of 23
Thread Starter 

I'm still gathering my thoughts on this and I'll post them at a later time. I just wanted to post this video and see what you guys think about this.

post #2 of 23

LOL, love Parfield...there's not much to say about this, really. He's basically saying to just use common sense. If you can play scratch golf, you don't need lessons. If you can't hit the ball where you want to, then you need lessons. 

post #3 of 23

"Maybe not" if you are "hitting target", can work the ball however you like, and don't particularly care to know how you are doing it. :-D

 

Yeah, I would say I agree with him. I just don't see very many people that fit that description. Well actually I don't see any that even have the "hitting target" part mastered.

post #4 of 23
Quote:
Originally Posted by BENtSwing32 View Post

LOL, love Parfield...there's not much to say about this, really. He's basically saying to just use common sense. If you can play scratch golf, you don't need lessons. If you can't hit the ball where you want to, then you need lessons. 

That's not what he said, at all.

He said that if you're hitting the ball where you want to, are happy with your scoring and are improving at the rate you want......whatever those may be, then you don't need lessons.

I don't think anyone could argue with that. Truth be told, most casual golfers really aren't dissatisfied with their game and don't care if they get much better, as long as they're enjoying their time on the course.

Those that are not happy with their current level of play and/or the rate at which they're improving, will benefit from lessons. I can't find anything to argue with there either.
post #5 of 23
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by BENtSwing32 View Post
 

LOL, love Parfield...there's not much to say about this, really. He's basically saying to just use common sense. If you can play scratch golf, you don't need lessons. If you can't hit the ball where you want to, then you need lessons. 

I agree with this. Sure, if you're satisfied with your own results then why would you take lessons? If you're already happy with your game, the cost may not justify the reward that you would gain and deem "worth it". 

The problem, I think, is that some people are going to read too deeply and think that they can reach that point on their own. I wish I had lessons as a kid because I spent years hacking and trying to make my own sense of bad shots. Bubba is definitely an anomaly that people should not try to emulate in terms of taking lessons.

post #6 of 23
Quote:
Originally Posted by David in FL View Post
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by BENtSwing32 View Post

LOL, love Parfield...there's not much to say about this, really. He's basically saying to just use common sense. If you can play scratch golf, you don't need lessons. If you can't hit the ball where you want to, then you need lessons. 

That's not what he said, at all.

He said that if you're hitting the ball where you want to, are happy with your scoring and are improving at the rate you want......whatever those may be, then you don't need lessons.

I don't think anyone could argue with that. Truth be told, most casual golfers really aren't dissatisfied with their game and don't care if they get much better, as long as they're enjoying their time on the course.

Those that are not happy with their current level of play and/or the rate at which they're improving, will benefit from lessons. I can't find anything to argue with there either.

 

Haha ok...I wasn't quoting him. And what you wrote is still just common sense. 

post #7 of 23
Quote:
Originally Posted by Spyder View Post
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by BENtSwing32 View Post
 

LOL, love Parfield...there's not much to say about this, really. He's basically saying to just use common sense. If you can play scratch golf, you don't need lessons. If you can't hit the ball where you want to, then you need lessons. 

I agree with this. Sure, if you're satisfied with your own results then why would you take lessons? If you're already happy with your game, the cost may not justify the reward that you would gain and deem "worth it". 

The problem, I think, is that some people are going to read too deeply and think that they can reach that point on their own. I wish I had lessons as a kid because I spent years hacking and trying to make my own sense of bad shots. Bubba is definitely an anomaly that people should not try to emulate in terms of taking lessons.

 

Yeah, that's true. 

post #8 of 23
Quote:
Originally Posted by Spyder View Post

I agree with this. Sure, if you're satisfied with your own results then why would you take lessons? If you're already happy with your game, the cost may not justify the reward that you would gain and deem "worth it". 


The problem, I think, is that some people are going to read too deeply and think that they can reach that point on their own. I wish I had lessons as a kid because I spent years hacking and trying to make my own sense of bad shots. Bubba is definitely an anomaly that people should not try to emulate in terms of taking lessons.

Many, if not most casual golfers are already at a place where they're content with their play. Whether or not you and I would be happy with that level of play is irrelevant. There are scratch golfers struggling to improve, and 20 handicappers perfectly content to continue as such. The former "need" lessons, the latter do not.

At least that's how I interpret Crossfield's point. And I tend to agree.
post #9 of 23
Finding the best instructor(s) for your personality, and seeing them to improve your ball striking, putting, chipping, pitch shots or course management etc. is a fun experience. If you don't enjoy your visits or cease to enjoy it, you should stop and or see someone else.

I agree with what Mark Stated, it's hard not to agree with him, but I will say that you do want to see an instructor to avoid injury.

If a new golfer asks me what to do to learn golf, I would strongly recommend they see a good instructor.
post #10 of 23
Quote:
Originally Posted by David in FL View Post


Many, if not most casual golfers are already at a place where they're content with their play. Whether or not you and I would be happy with that level of play is irrelevant. There are scratch golfers struggling to improve, and 20 handicappers perfectly content to continue as such. The former "need" lessons, the latter do not.

At least that's how I interpret Crossfield's point. And I tend to agree.

 

 

I would agree with that David. My problem is, I want to improve, and Am generally never satisfied with much of anything. I guess that stems from racing, almost all racers want to someday be the Man, and win, just to bad I'm so long in life and don't that many years left to get to where I'd like to be..:-D  

post #11 of 23

The only person modern times or least of any player of significance that makes such a claim is Bubba Watson, but I call that at least partial BS, as he played in HS (I think) and College, so I assume there was some coaching there and a  practice regimen etc. Its sort of laughable for him or others to claim "I've never had a pro lesson".

 

The right coach can help anyone, assuming said person is teachable/coachable.  

post #12 of 23
Crossfield basically said in a very subtle way that pretty much everyone needs lessons. Without stepping on the toes of most no lessons for me folks.
post #13 of 23
Quote:
Originally Posted by Snowfly View Post
 

The only person modern times or least of any player of significance that makes such a claim is Bubba Watson, but I call that at least partial BS, as he played in HS (I think) and College, so I assume there was some coaching there and a  practice regimen etc. Its sort of laughable for him or others to claim "I've never had a pro lesson".

 

The right coach can help anyone, assuming said person is teachable/coachable.  


I'm sure there are some high school and college golf coaches that can't help themselves and actually try to "coach" the kids on the team. They are probably the ones that quickly get replaced.

 

Parents that paid big money for many years for an actual golf pro to teach their kid how to swing, the players themselves, nor the coach have any interest in trying to change their swings just ahead of an upcoming season. The coach organizes the team and is in charge of running the team. May even go as far as offering some on course strategy but not changing swings.

 

College coaches are pretty much in the same boat. They recruit the best players they can recruit and have nowhere near the time to try to change the swings of the champion junior golfers they just recruited (that probably all already have a swing coach at home) even in the unlikely case that they wanted to.

 

IMO it's not only possible that Bubba didn't have a high school or college coach that tried to coach his swing, but more than likely.

post #14 of 23
Quote:
Originally Posted by MS256 View Post
 


I'm sure there are some high school and college golf coaches that can't help themselves and actually try to "coach" the kids on the team. They are probably the ones that quickly get replaced.

 

Parents that paid big money for many years for an actual golf pro to teach their kid how to swing, the players themselves, nor the coach have any interest in trying to change their swings just ahead of an upcoming season. The coach organizes the team and is in charge of running the team. May even go as far as offering some on course strategy but not changing swings.

 

College coaches are pretty much in the same boat. They recruit the best players they can recruit and have nowhere near the time to try to change the swings of the champion junior golfers they just recruited (that probably all already have a swing coach at home).

 

IMO it's not only possible that Bubba didn't have a high school or college coach that tried to coach his swing, but more than likely.

here you go, I doubt the coaches of these programs fit your description. A HS program that generates 3 pro's, big names no, but never the less, something was taught there, coaches come in many flavors, perhaps one is technical, another is great at mental conditioning, another at teaching how to handle pressure. But you are right if BW had a swing coach, then that guy is the worst coach practicing, that is one ugly swing, but a very effective winning swing.

 

 

Amateur career[edit]

Watson was born and raised in Bagdad, Florida, near Pensacola. He played on the golf team at Milton High School, which had featured future PGA Tour members Heath Slocum and Boo Weekley just before he attended.[6] Watson played golf for Faulkner State Community College in nearby Baldwin County, Alabama, where he was a junior college All-American. He transferred to the University of Georgia, the defending NCAA champions, and played for the Bulldogs in 2000 and 2001. As a junior, Watson helped lead the Bulldogs to the SEC title in 2000.

 

The thread is really not about BW, so I'll let it die here, I was just pointing out that almost every successful golfer, armature or pro,  has coaching in one form coaching or another.

post #15 of 23
Quote:
Originally Posted by Spyder View Post
 

The problem, I think, is that some people are going to read too deeply and think that they can reach that point on their own. I wish I had lessons as a kid because I spent years hacking and trying to make my own sense of bad shots. Bubba is definitely an anomaly that people should not try to emulate in terms of taking lessons.

 

Probably. And the problem with that is they may get close, but then they're often setting themselves up for more work "unlearning" the compensations they learned.

 

For example, someone might want to get to "low single digits." They get to an 8 on their own but no further, and then have such a goofy swing that it takes awhile to unlearn everything.

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by MS256 View Post
 

IMO it's not only possible that Bubba didn't have a high school or college coach that tried to coach his swing, but more than likely.

 

I think the point others are trying to make is that "coaching" takes other forms beyond "tried to coach his swing." Phil MIckelson's had two instructors, and his swing looks about the same now as it always has.

 


 

Bubba is a great example of a freak of nature kid who figured stuff out on his own and won two Masters. He's the exception to the rule.

 

Lessons are for people who want to get better, and more specifically, lessons are for people who will enjoy getting better more than they'll enjoy "figuring it out" on their own… because the latter often takes longer and offers no guarantees at all that they'll ever arrive.

 

At the end of the day, most golfers seem to enjoy golf just shooting 94 with their buddies, especially if they shoot more than 94. :)

post #16 of 23

Bubba is an anomaly, I doubt any swing coach (except for putting work) would even consider taking Bubba on as a student because the potential to ruin him is too great.  You don't see many (if any) books teaching to swing like Bubba or to incorporate Furyk's loop.

 

If I was able to reach near scratch on my own, I wouldn't take a lesson either.  Unfortunately I started too late in life and without structured lessons and drills I'd probably never figure out how to swing a club properly on my own.

post #17 of 23
Quote:
Originally Posted by iacas View Post


Lessons are for people who want to get better, and more specifically, lessons are for people who will enjoy getting better more than they'll enjoy "figuring it out" on their own… because the latter often takes longer and offers no guarantees at all that they'll ever arrive.

At the end of the day, most golfers seem to enjoy golf just shooting 94 with their buddies, especially if they shoot more than 94. :)

a3_biggrin.gif
post #18 of 23
Quote:
Originally Posted by newtogolf View Post
 

Bubba is an anomaly, I doubt any swing coach (except for putting work) would even consider taking Bubba on as a student because the potential to ruin him is too great.

 

I'm calling bogus on that one. Sorry. Only an instructor who didn't know what he was doing could ruin Bubba, and the only instructors who would not consider taking him on are the ones who are too busy and/or who are not confident in their skill set.

 

If Bubba took a lesson, it's the same as any other student: find his priority piece, and make it better.

 

FWIW, I'd teach Jim Furyk or Bubba Watson. The same day, too, why not? :)

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