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Is the Pursuit of Faster Greens a Problem in Golf? - Page 6

Poll Results: Are Faster Green Speeds a Problem? Please elaborate below.

 
  • 23% (13)
    Yes
  • 76% (42)
    No
55 Total Votes  
post #91 of 143
Quote:
Originally Posted by MattM View Post

And BTW DAUPHIN HIGHLANDS is not in YARDLEY PA man.... Do you use blades by chance?  I do and I can tell you for a fact that I do get spin on the ball out of rough because I take a very steep swing for that reason.  I never try to pick it out of rough. The funny part about what you are saying is that I WAS PLAYING THE FRONT!  The hole was 205 yards away and I played a 180 yard 6 iron.  Apparently, you all are in a stratosphere all your own because when I hit the fringe in front of the green the ball rolls off the back at a faster pace than if I just hit the green with it....

Alright, calm down a bit. I assumed you were talking about Makefield Highlands Golf Club, which was an assumption based off of merely a cursory glance at a Google search. I can see my error now.

 

As to playing blades, I have no reason to play them myself. I find that my Ping Eye 2's work just fine for me and have more forgiveness on offcenter hits than a blade would, which I like. As to whether blades produce more spin or not, they tend to produce identical spin rates with the same swing on good contact as a GI iron. That is, of course, excluding the SGI irons that are marketed to specifically lower spin and give you a higher launch. Spin is affected more by the grooves in the club that whether or not you play a muscleback vs. a cavity backed club.

 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by MattM View Post

Do you have courses that have raised greens?  If you do then you will know why your suggestion makes absolutely NO SENSE!  NONE!!!!  The majority of courses around here are raised greens, and at dauphin right in front of the green is actually WET!   I guess you would play the shot PERFECTLY 20 yards in front of the green skip it off of mud then wind up a foot off of the hole right?

As to the raised greens point, I would have to say that I do know what it's like to play on raised greens. The course listed as my home course for GHIN purposes, Twin Peaks Golf Course, has all raised stadium greens. If you've seen one green there, you've seen them all. :-P

 

For how I would play the shot, I suppose I would accept that the green may be tough to hold and play slightly differently in two ways. First, I would make hitting the fairway a top priority since you always get more spin off a fairway lie than out of the rough. Second, depending on what the course looks like (since I've never seen it), I would absolutely take the fairly easy chip from the front fringe over a difficult pitch that may be from way off the back. If you know you're unlikely to hold the green on a given shot, such as being 180 out and in the rough, then play for the safest bet. If you get lucky and the front edge isn't too squishy you may bounce on, if not you know that you just have a little chip to get on vs a pitch that has to stop quickly out of the rough. You even get to remove your ball if it embeds in the fairway!

 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by MattM View Post

Some of the suggestions in here just don't make sense!  Not only that but you guys act like you are the purist of pure and if you can play those conditions everyone can.  Let me point something out here....  Golf is dying!  It's because of stuff like this!  When you try to make a course play like a us open you completely take out any new customers and hurt the game in the process!  The point should be to make it both fun AND challenging.  It's not fun when its impossible, and for new players they are impossible....

I'm not trying to make you change something about your game, or trying to say that I can play those conditions as easily as any other conditions. I'm merely attempting to help you make the best of a possibly bad situation (again, I can't be certain of what it's like unless I've seen the course). If you don't like my ideas, go ahead and toss them out. Write them down and burn them if you want, or maybe use them as toilet paper (in which case I suggest using something soft to write them on) if it makes you feel better. The one thing to remember is that your local course may not be attempting to cater to a beginner audience. Do you have a local executive course nearby? If so, that might explain why Dauphin Highlands is set up to play difficult since they may be assuming that the beginners would go to a different course.

 

I personally am not concerned about golf dying due to one course having difficult conditions. I like having a course or two within reasonable driving distance that are seen as challenging or downright impossible, just because it's fun to occasionally go out there and try it out to see how I fare. A course near me (Heritage at Westmoor) is serving as a US Open qualifier course and I'd be interested to go out there the week after the qualifier is done just to see what the conditions they face are like. Then again, I can understand why it would be frustrating to play on a course set up to a high degree of difficulty on a regular basis. I just wouldn't blame something that happens at a relative minority of courses upon the decline of a sport (which still has many people playing, or at least so it seems when trying to get a weekend tee time).

post #92 of 143
Quote:
Originally Posted by MattM View Post
 

Two greens at Dauphin Highlands were lost last year.  Fairview regularly kills their grass as does valley green and rich valley.  Armitage regularly deals with dead grass on their greens as does Range End.  Sportsmans and Sunset are pathetic.  Mayapple is nice, and before they got rid of it Hershey Links was a great course with nice greens.  I could go on about more courses around here but you get the point.

 

I started playing about 6 months before most of our courses purposely started trying to make their greens faster.  It was weird!  They would make divots etc. and the ball would stop and then it was just horrible.  You hit a green around here for the most part you have to expect it to roll to the back.  If you come up short in the fringe it actually speed up the ball and it goes further off the back.

 

A lot of times they just refuse to water the greens....


Just a little fyi from a stupid Superintendent. More often than not fast greens are firm greens unless they have alot of thatch. You  water a green to keep it alive not to soften them up. And stop calling Superintendents stupid. these men and women have college degrees and dedication to there jobs.

post #93 of 143
Quote:
Originally Posted by wils5150 View Post


Just a little fyi from a stupid Superintendent. More often than not fast greens are firm greens unless they have alot of thatch. You  water a green to keep it alive not to soften them up. And stop calling Superintendents stupid. these men and women have college degrees and dedication to there jobs.

 



So let me get this straight.... You are a superintendent yet you say that you HAVE to have HARD greens if they are fast too? I can tell you from experience that this is entirely untrue, and anyone who has played Hershey Links can verify that. The greens ALWAYS stimped at 12s and always allowed you to hold them.

You are right I shouldn't have said stupid; however, what you are saying is also just untrue. Hershey Links absolutely watered their greens a ton to make them soft for the approach shot.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pretzel View Post

Alright, calm down a bit. I assumed you were talking about Makefield Highlands Golf Club, which was an assumption based off of merely a cursory glance at a Google search. I can see my error now.

As to playing blades, I have no reason to play them myself. I find that my Ping Eye 2's work just fine for me and have more forgiveness on offcenter hits than a blade would, which I like. As to whether blades produce more spin or not, they tend to produce identical spin rates with the same swing on good contact as a GI iron. That is, of course, excluding the SGI irons that are marketed to specifically lower spin and give you a higher launch. Spin is affected more by the grooves in the club that whether or not you play a muscleback vs. a cavity backed club.

As to the raised greens point, I would have to say that I do know what it's like to play on raised greens. The course listed as my home course for GHIN purposes, Twin Peaks Golf Course, has all raised stadium greens. If you've seen one green there, you've seen them all. " src="http://files.thesandtrap.com//images/smilies/new/b2_tongue.gif">

For how I would play the shot, I suppose I would accept that the green may be tough to hold and play slightly differently in two ways. First, I would make hitting the fairway a top priority since you always get more spin off a fairway lie than out of the rough. Second, depending on what the course looks like (since I've never seen it), I would absolutely take the fairly easy chip from the front fringe over a difficult pitch that may be from way off the back. If you know you're unlikely to hold the green on a given shot, such as being 180 out and in the rough, then play for the safest bet. If you get lucky and the front edge isn't too squishy you may bounce on, if not you know that you just have a little chip to get on vs a pitch that has to stop quickly out of the rough. You even get to remove your ball if it embeds in the fairway!

I'm not trying to make you change something about your game, or trying to say that I can play those conditions as easily as any other conditions. I'm merely attempting to help you make the best of a possibly bad situation (again, I can't be certain of what it's like unless I've seen the course). If you don't like my ideas, go ahead and toss them out. Write them down and burn them if you want, or maybe use them as toilet paper (in which case I suggest using something soft to write them on) if it makes you feel better. The one thing to remember is that your local course may not be attempting to cater to a beginner audience. Do you have a local executive course nearby? If so, that might explain why Dauphin Highlands is set up to play difficult since they may be assuming that the beginners would go to a different course.

I personally am not concerned about golf dying due to one course having difficult conditions. I like having a course or two within reasonable driving distance that are seen as challenging or downright impossible, just because it's fun to occasionally go out there and try it out to see how I fare. A course near me (Heritage at Westmoor) is serving as a US Open qualifier course and I'd be interested to go out there the week after the qualifier is done just to see what the conditions they face are like. Then again, I can understand why it would be frustrating to play on a course set up to a high degree of difficulty on a regular basis. I just wouldn't blame something that happens at a relative minority of courses upon the decline of a sport (which still has many people playing, or at least so it seems when trying to get a weekend tee time).

 



You are mistaking what I am saying. I routinely shoot in the low to mid 80's from the blacks at Dauphin Highlands and I know how to play the course. I got up and down on the 6 iron shot that bounced. I didn't mention that for myself I mentioned that because I am trying to make the point from a new player's perspective. Would they even find the game fun if it was entirely out of reach for them to play well?

Remember the object is to get MORE people into the game of golf! That is why Jack Nicklaus said what he said about bigger holes. He thinks it should be easier to bring in new golfers as well.

Also, I mentioned a big amount of courses around me that are doing the same thing. It's not just one course trying this stuff. If it was it would be no big deal. Also, if the game of golf wasn't in trouble you wouldn't have all of these golf companies getting taken over. they are getting new customers just returning customers and as a business that is unsustainable especially when a big majority of the returning crowd is getting old!
post #94 of 143
Quote:
Originally Posted by MattM View Post
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by wils5150 View Post
 


Just a little fyi from a stupid Superintendent. More often than not fast greens are firm greens unless they have alot of thatch. You  water a green to keep it alive not to soften them up. And stop calling Superintendents stupid. these men and women have college degrees and dedication to there jobs.

 



So let me get this straight.... You are a superintendent yet you say that you HAVE to have HARD greens if they are fast too? I can tell you from experience that this is entirely untrue, and anyone who has played Hershey Links can verify that. The greens ALWAYS stimped at 12s and always allowed you to hold them.

You are right I shouldn't have said stupid; however, what you are saying is also just untrue. Hershey Links absolutely watered their greens a ton to make them soft for the approach shot.

 

 

All this talk makes me want to move back to MD, even if only for just a tiny fraction of a second. ;-)

 

However, it kind of makes sense that a faster green will be harder.

 

If it is softer, the ball would press down a bit more into the green and increase the surface area that the ball touches the green thereby reducing the speed.

post #95 of 143
Quote:
Originally Posted by MattM View Post
 
 
So let me get this straight.... You are a superintendent yet you say that you HAVE to have HARD greens if they are fast too? I can tell you from experience that this is entirely untrue, and anyone who has played Hershey Links can verify that. The greens ALWAYS stimped at 12s and always allowed you to hold them.

You are right I shouldn't have said stupid; however, what you are saying is also just untrue. Hershey Links absolutely watered their greens a ton to make them soft for the approach shot.

Remember the object is to get MORE people into the game of golf! That is why Jack Nicklaus said what he said about bigger holes. He thinks it should be easier to bring in new golfers as well.

Also, I mentioned a big amount of courses around me that are doing the same thing. It's not just one course trying this stuff. If it was it would be no big deal. Also, if the game of golf wasn't in trouble you wouldn't have all of these golf companies getting taken over. they are getting new customers just returning customers and as a business that is unsustainable especially when a big majority of the returning crowd is getting old!

 

I'd have to agree with that. You do not need hard greens to have fast greens. I played a private course last year that got a ton of rain before hand, and they were still Stimp'd out about 11's, and you can hold them. Heck the problem was they were so soft that most of my wedges were being sucked back off the green. 

 

Fast greens is all about the height of grass cut and rolling them. Given harder greens, and burning them out makes them faster, but it is not required. 

post #96 of 143
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lihu View Post

 

 

All this talk makes me want to move back to MD, even if only for just a tiny fraction of a second. " src="http://files.thesandtrap.com//images/smilies/new/a2_wink.gif">

 

However, it kind of makes sense that a faster green will be harder.

 

If it is softer, the ball would press down a bit more into the green and increase the surface area that the ball touches the green thereby reducing the speed.

 



Again, you guys mistake my point. I'm saying IF you can make your greens faster fine do it, but don't make them unable to hold a normal 170 7 iron from the fairway! If what the superintendant is saying is true then they should not be trying to make them faster because they are just making them harder in the process.

Not only that but the shorter you make the grass on the greens the easier it is for the sun to bake the roots of the grass (what happened at highlands). That, from a purely economics standpoint make entirely no sense!
post #97 of 143

I said more often than not. i didnt say all. I do not have any knowledge of Hershey Links but if the water to keep them soft he/she is over watering. there is alot more to it type of soil,grass type.climate amount of play to name a few.

post #98 of 143
Apparently they weren't since Hershey Links was routinely voted one of the nicest courses in the state if not the country! It also ran over $100 a round.


I wish I could post pics in here of many of the highlands par 3s to give you guys an idea as to why hitting the front fringe of the greens would turn your round it garbage quite quickly....

Here is hole number 17. I've routinely seen people try to hit the fringe on that false front only to have the ball fall into the gorge. I've also seen people hit the middle of the green to have the ball fly off the back and then they have to chip down the steep grade which causes the ball to roll down the fast front anyway, and thusly over 20 yards off the front of the green.

http://www.cmjohn.com/courses/dauphinhighlands.html

I wish I could find pics of every hole but they took them down from their site. From the blacks this course is a 73.2 /135. It's definately not an easy course, but more new people would play here if the firmness was toned down...
Edited by MattM - 5/5/14 at 12:55pm
post #99 of 143
Quote:
Originally Posted by MattM View Post
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lihu View Post
 

 

 

All this talk makes me want to move back to MD, even if only for just a tiny fraction of a second. <img src=

 

However, it kind of makes sense that a faster green will be harder.

 

If it is softer, the ball would press down a bit more into the green and increase the surface area that the ball touches the green thereby reducing the speed.

 



Again, you guys mistake my point. I'm saying IF you can make your greens faster fine do it, but don't make them unable to hold a normal 170 7 iron from the fairway! If what the superintendant is saying is true then they should not be trying to make them faster because they are just making them harder in the process.

Not only that but the shorter you make the grass on the greens the easier it is for the sun to bake the roots of the grass (what happened at highlands). That, from a purely economics standpoint make entirely no sense!


Makes sense.

 

BTW, not everyone carries their 7i 170. :-P

post #100 of 143
Quote:
Remember the object is to get MORE people into the game of golf! That is why Jack Nicklaus said what he said about bigger holes. He thinks it should be easier to bring in new golfers as well.

Also, I mentioned a big amount of courses around me that are doing the same thing. It's not just one course trying this stuff. If it was it would be no big deal. Also, if the game of golf wasn't in trouble you wouldn't have all of these golf companies getting taken over. they are getting new customers just returning customers and as a business that is unsustainable especially when a big majority of the returning crowd is getting old!

My point that I made about that course is that maybe it caters to a more skilled clientele. What if getting more people into the game ISN'T that course's goal? I'm not saying that it should or shouldn't be, but look at it from the course's perspective a bit.

Water costs money, and if your strategy to soften the greens is to water them heavily, green fees will go up. When green fees go up, beginners don't want to try golf because it's too expensive. Hard greens don't discourage a beginner because they don't have a high enough landing angle to notice the difference anyways. I would suggest that perhaps the course doesn't overly water the greens because it costs money and can kill the greens (if the watering is too excessive).
post #101 of 143
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pretzel View Post



My point that I made about that course is that maybe it caters to a more skilled clientele. What if getting more people into the game ISN'T that course's goal? I'm not saying that it should or shouldn't be, but look at it from the course's perspective a bit.



Water costs money, and if your strategy to soften the greens is to water them heavily, green fees will go up. When green fees go up, beginners don't want to try golf because it's too expensive. Hard greens don't discourage a beginner because they don't have a high enough landing angle to notice the difference anyways. I would suggest that perhaps the course doesn't overly water the greens because it costs money and can kill the greens (if the watering is too excessive).

 



Actually, losing TWO giant greens costs HUGE sums of money. They are close to losing an additional two and it's not even june. When it heats up it will not be sustainable for them to work their greens like they do. Too costly, and believe me the county owns this course and the county DEFINATELY wants as many people to come here as possible.

This is just one course. I could go over multiple places around here where the idea of making the greens faster has caused courses to have concrete like greens....

Again, let me reiterate what I've been saying. BECAUSE THEY DIDN"T WATER THEIR GREENS THEY HAVE LOST TWO ALREADY AND ARE IN THE PROCESS OF LOSING TWO MORE. But again, it's not just them. I played Valley Green last week and the grass is so dry that is sounds like you are walking on cumpled paper when you get onto the green...
post #102 of 143
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pretzel View Post

My point that I made about that course is that maybe it caters to a more skilled clientele
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pretzel View Post

Hard greens don't discourage a beginner because they don't have a high enough landing angle to notice the difference anyways.

I don't think firmer greens would, in and of themselves, attract better golfers. In fact, I think it could frustrate them. If there's a front pin location and an 8 iron is the perfect distance for them, will they find it pleasantly challenging to hit a 9 iron just short and hope for a good bounce up? I wouldn't think so.

I agree with higher handicappers, though. They aren't affected as much. In fact, I would argue that a majority of them are helped by firmer greens. In my experience, the higher handicapper lands short of the green a majority of the time. Firm ground/greens help their balls roll out (which they often need).
post #103 of 143
So you're telling me that they've already lost greens, or what? I apologize, but I'm finding it hard to follow what you last post was saying. Do you think they specifically withhold water from the greens to keep them firm? You had mentioned that the fringe was overwatered and often soggy (the reason you couldn't land it short and bounce on) so maybe the course is trying to soften them already and not succeeding?

As to hard greens discouraging beginners, I still would have to disagree. Fast greens, maybe, but hard greens make no difference to a true beginner who may only be able to get the ball 20 feet into the air on a decent shot. Having played with my cousins frequently, who are just learning golf, I can say with certainty that most approach shots hit by a beginner end up rolling onto the green rather than landing or bouncing there. That's just because they don't tend to make perfect contact to send the ball soaring, instead hitting lower trajectory shots. Hard greens only really start to have an impact when you hit the ball in a higher trajectory and have the opportunity for your ball to bounce off. Fast greens would, in my opinion, affect new players more than a firm green just because their shots would roll further on the green, possibly going off into the back fringe where they might be inclined to chip instead of putt.

As just a final aside before I leave the discussion (I apologize for taking it off track), you cannot be certain of the course's goals unless you work there and know what the course wants. For example, the course I work at puts an emphasis on customer service. If you're out and someone's hitting from a trap, you go over and offer to rake it for them. Little things like that, but it makes it feel friendly there at least to me.

Anyways, I'll stay out of this one now so we can get back on topic.
post #104 of 143
Quote:
Originally Posted by boil3rmak3r View Post



I don't think firmer greens would, in and of themselves, attract better golfers. In fact, I think it could frustrate them. If there's a front pin location and an 8 iron is the perfect distance for them, will they find it pleasantly challenging to hit a 9 iron just short and hope for a good bounce up? I wouldn't think so.

I agree with higher handicappers, though. They aren't affected as much. In fact, I would argue that a majority of them are helped by firmer greens. In my experience, the higher handicapper lands short of the green a majority of the time. Firm ground/greens help their balls roll out (which they often need).

 

This is in fact my strategy on all front and front/center pins. I would only shoot for the green if there is a back or back/center pin. Most of us higher handicappers (speaking for myself and many of my playing partners) depend upon up and down and are generally satisfied to lose the birdie chances on front pins. Many of us lack the skill to shoot past the pin, and expect the ball to backup towards it.


Edited by Lihu - 5/5/14 at 1:31pm
post #105 of 143
HUh? I sailed that the fringe in front was muddy but I never said it was overwatered. I think you purposely interpreted that the way you wanted. If you have a hill going down to the green but the green is raised which I've said multiple times. What happens to water? Ill let you figure it out for yourself.
post #106 of 143

Ok, sorry, but I promise this will be my last post here.

 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by MattM View Post

Do you have courses that have raised greens?  If you do then you will know why your suggestion makes absolutely NO SENSE!  NONE!!!!  The majority of courses around here are raised greens, and at dauphin right in front of the green is actually WET!   I guess you would play the shot PERFECTLY 20 yards in front of the green skip it off of mud then wind up a foot off of the hole right?

While the water does run off a raised green, the fact that the front of the greens is always wet is evidence of overwatering. Unless the golf course is built on clay, which most usually aren't (Dauphin Highlands could be, I don't know), the water used to water the grass should be absorbed fairly quickly. Most courses have a somewhat sandy base for drainage purposes, which could handle around 1.25-2.5cm of water per hour and still absorb it decently (this is from rainfall). This means that unless the area is oversaturated, or it is receiving more water than it can handle (eg.it's overwatered), the water should not leave the ground muddy:

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by MattM View Post
I sailed that the fringe in front was muddy

 

Think about when you water your lawn: Does the ground stay muddy or wet for an extended period of time? I know that my lawn, at least, is usually dry within an hour or two of the sprinklers turning off. Unless you played at the crack of dawn right after the sprinklers turned off, I don't see why the fringe would be wet unless the course was overwatering the greens in order to attempt to solve the problem (whether it be overly firm greens or the burning out of greens that you alluded to in a previous post).

 

Just for reference, the burning out of greens comes from this post by you:

 

Quote:
Not only that but the shorter you make the grass on the greens the easier it is for the sun to bake the roots of the grass (what happened at highlands). That, from a purely economics standpoint make entirely no sense!

 

 

As my final point, I would just like to say that making the greens faster and making them harder aren't always the same thing. While they can be if the greens are rolled to make them faster (the rolling process can also pack down some earth), just mowing the greens won't inherently make the ground beneath them harder. While those at Dauphin Highlands may be firm, it's not because the greens were mowed tighter. It's because of a variety of other factors combine to make the green hard instead of soft.

 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by boil3rmak3r View Post
I don't think firmer greens would, in and of themselves, attract better golfers. In fact, I think it could frustrate them. If there's a front pin location and an 8 iron is the perfect distance for them, will they find it pleasantly challenging to hit a 9 iron just short and hope for a good bounce up? I wouldn't think so.

Sorry, I didn't mean to say that the firmer greens by themselves would attract better golfers. I was merely meaning to suggest that the course may want to be seen as a difficult course for better golfers, hence the firm greens to get "better" (more difficult) course rating and slope in their eyes.

post #107 of 143
Quote:
Originally Posted by MattM View Post

HUh? I sailed that the fringe in front was muddy but I never said it was overwatered. I think you purposely interpreted that the way you wanted. If you have a hill going down to the green but the green is raised which I've said multiple times. What happens to water? Ill let you figure it out for yourself.

 

If the course was properly designed, then it should have been planned for drainage from an area so much in play.  It wouldn't be the first time such details were overlooked

post #108 of 143

Again, you didn't read everything I said.  The tee is about 60 yards higher than the green and about 460 yards long.  The fairway goes down hill all the way to the green which is raised.  If the green is raised then the water coming off of the fairway down the hill is going to sit and pool in front of the green.  Think about gravity.  How about aimpoint......The fairway is at about a 3.5 % slope down to the green.  And the green is about 2 feet higher than the lowest point of the hole.  Very simple to understand.

 

It rains much like it does anywhere else.....The course holds rain very well and drains well. This is the lowest spot on the course so that is where the water will pool.  Again, I never said that the course is dry all around you just made that assumption for some reason.  If the green is raised and it rains or even if they water it what will happen to the water?  It will go to the lowest point.  That's how aimpoint works itself gravity. 
 

If you have raised greens then they need MORE water than the rest of the course!  Think about what I'm saying!  If AROUND the green is wet and soggy and the green is dry and hard what does that say?  Clearly, everywhere BUT the greens are getting water.


Also,  your assumptions continue.  Shorter grass denotes a few things that causes the green to get harder.  If the grass is very very short to make it harder then it is easier for the sun KILL the grass making the greens harder.  I don't think you read that post very well because I never said JUST SHORT GRASS MEANS HARD GREENS.  I was saying that if the grass is short it will be easier for the sun to KILL the grass on the green than if it was longer.  You used a bunch of words to basically agree with what I'm saying.  I understand you want to argue with everyone in this thread who disagrees with you about fast greens, but we all have a good idea of what's going on with regard to golf courses.

 

Also, you crack me up with the "you don't know what the course managers are thinking" comment.  How do you know this?  Another assumption?  Sort of like "Highlands is in Yardley."  You just made that jump and didn't know if you were right or not...weird... I work for the government...The government owns Dauphin Highlands...I have a REALLY good idea as to what the County Government wants with the course......very simple actually.....They want to make a profit!  They want MORE people.  They want the greens NOT to die (thus costing MORE money to replace) and they finally want the newbie regulars.  Those are the people that continue to come back.

 

Sunset down the street is a very easy course (even with the baked greens) so they have TONS of people there every day because it makes it fun!  Dauphin for me is fun because I like a challenge, but for someone who is trying to learn the game and how to play on a course they want to have fund too.  They don't want to lose two buckets of balls (I've seen it happen) and when they hit a good shot they want to be rewarded with it sticking on the green.  Not bouncing 60 feet up in the air and off of the back.

 

To fourputt, I totally agree with what you are saying.  On more than a few holes the fairway is very soggy (not muddy) but the greens are dry as a bone....

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