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Is breaking the rules really bad? - Page 3

post #37 of 144
Quote:
Originally Posted by shootaglock View Post

I assume most on this forum are serious and better than average golfers. (At least they are on the internet a2_wink.gif )

Speaking as someone that is new to the game, hitting every ball as it lies, marking down every stroke, etc. etc. can be so frustrating it is demoralizing.


So those saying you have to hit hard shots to learn to hit them are right. After a point. First you have to be able to hit a shot period. I don't know that hacking at a bunch of balls a foot above or below your feet in 2 inches or more of grass is really going to help. Or trying to thread a needle. Sometimes a mulligan or a foot wedge will help improve your game. There is a limit to what you can do without getting discouraged.

But then my handicap, if I had one, would be higher than my oldest son's age, so what do I know.

You and I are the same page ... Need to learn how to hit a ball first ... I call it the tee ball stage ...
post #38 of 144

Golf Channel is pushing a simpler, more relaxed type of golf for beginners to make things more fun. These relaxed rules would not be for handicapping- but just to get people out there.

They've done an intro segment on it. Now Charlie and Matt are selling the idea to Gary, elaborating on each "rule."

This seems like more than a goofy segment- seems like they are serious about pushing this with their brand name. They seem to have printed bag tags with these rules on them.
post #39 of 144
Quote:
Originally Posted by RandallT View Post


Golf Channel is pushing a simpler, more relaxed type of golf for beginners to make things more fun. These relaxed rules would not be for handicapping- but just to get people out there.

They've done an intro segment on it. Now Charlie and Matt are selling the idea to Gary, elaborating on each "rule."

This seems like more than a goofy segment- seems like they are serious about pushing this with their brand name. They seem to have printed bag tags with these rules on them.

I got an email from them to play I an outing they're sponsoring that will be played under these rules. Much as I'd like a freebie, I can't play on that day.

As with all of these things, they also can't resolve where to drop for a lost ball, since by definition, you don't know where it is.....

Beyond that, if it speeds up play, I'm all in favor of the vast majority of casual golfers doing any damn thing they like!
post #40 of 144
Quote:
Originally Posted by David in FL View Post

I got an email from them to play I an outing they're sponsoring that will be played under these rules. Much as I'd like a freebie, I can't play on that day.

As with all of these things, they also can't resolve where to drop for a lost ball, since by definition, you don't know where it is.....

Beyond that, if it speeds up play, I'm all in favor of the vast majority of casual golfers doing any damn thing they like!
Interesting. Yah this is most definitely a push from Golf Channel. PGA President Tim Bishop was just on. He is onboard and has seen them in prior meetings.

Calling them "rules" is a bit of a stretch. Rules need clarity and completeness. These 7 items are just guidelines for the 95% who don't keep official scores (stat according to them).

It'll be interesting to see how these rules get publicized and adopted. Will people at grassroots discuss/implement? Or will it be ignored since the target audience isn't much for rules anyway!
post #41 of 144
I play in an informal weekly group and we pretty much play this way. While I am probably the only one with anything resembling a true handicap, they would range from 12-30, so this makes sense for the group to have fun and move along. No one plays in any formal competition other than the occasional shamble. I am the pseudo organizer of the group, and I initiated a double bogey rule which has gradually taken hold. I was giving them doulbles regardless of score, and they have gradually taken the hint to pick up at double so as to speed up play.

I will say that I am more strict on myself. Although I am not officially participating in Ghin this year, I still keep my hc informally, so I write down my actual score or a reasonable estimate thereof within the rules. I play the ball down. If I see the ball go ob or apparently lost, I will hit the provisional from the tee and count stroke and distance. If the ball is expected to be found but deemed lost, I will drop with 1 stroke in the interest of time. One could justifiably be shot for going back to the tee at certain times on my course. The only time I ever improve my lie is in the rare case of a tree root or other injury potential in an otherwise playable lie, and I must admit I usually don't take a stroke for that.
post #42 of 144

When I listen to all of the nonsense from fellow golfers about how the rules work (like the guy who insisted that on the PGA tour you only have to re-hit if your tee-shot goes out of bounds.  If your second goes OB then you drop where it went out, donchaknow) I cannot help thinking that a lot of these "relaxed" rules are going to be cited as if they were the real rules.

 

I also wonder how well this has been thought out.  Say a new golfer comes out and plays these rules and continues playing  At some point he wants to start playing real golf (hopefully).  At that point he starts playing by the real rules and his scores, not surprisingly, skyrocket.  How many people are going to continue playing when the moment they decide to start playing for real the game gets more difficult and their feedback becomes really sucky?  It just seems like bad psychology to me and a pipe dream that people who start under "relaxed" rules will ever get over that transition and become golfers.

 

I also do not get the purpose of having outings under the relaxed rules with guys who are already golfers.

post #43 of 144

New golfers already play under those "rules," so I'm not sure what they're saying it would accomplish.

 

Ted Bishop likely has only slightly more impact on the rules committee than your average golfer, so I'm not sure his endorsement carries any weight.

 

I would be supportive of allowing OB / lost ball drops with 2-strokes penalty, but the USGA isn't big on guessing where to drop when they can help it, so I don't think it's going to happen.

post #44 of 144

There really is only one, unbreakable rule in golf as far as I'm concerned:

 

Have fun.

 

You paid the greens fee. You carved time out of your schedule to spend 4-5 hours golfing. I'm sure there are any of a number of other things you could have done instead. Enjoy yourself.

post #45 of 144
Quote:
Originally Posted by tmac20 View Post

As long as you are not recording an official handicap, I see no problem with it.

Yeah its best for your own sake you don't record your handicap officially if you decide to play in tournaments flighted.By not playing exactly by the book and giving yourself a better handicap by doing so then when it comes tournament time you will get waxed.Its also like one of my beliefs in playing tees that are not short because playing from shorter tees isn't going to help you in competition.

post #46 of 144
 

I am surprise it took this long ... it will be the "slow pitch softball" of golf  Recreational golfers out for the weekend to have a good time ... not sure if we see it merge with the 15 inch hole or not.

 

I think it should be 3 or 4 over par, but that is me ... 

 

I have discovered as you play the game and improve, there is actually a progression to wanting to play better and in line with the USGA official rules.  At least for me, I play by the rules now, and last year I was very relaxed in my play and scoring.  

post #47 of 144
Quote:
Originally Posted by turtleback View Post
 

When I listen to all of the nonsense from fellow golfers about how the rules work (like the guy who insisted that on the PGA tour you only have to re-hit if your tee-shot goes out of bounds.  If your second goes OB then you drop where it went out, donchaknow) I cannot help thinking that a lot of these "relaxed" rules are going to be cited as if they were the real rules.

 

I also wonder how well this has been thought out.  Say a new golfer comes out and plays these rules and continues playing  At some point he wants to start playing real golf (hopefully).  At that point he starts playing by the real rules and his scores, not surprisingly, skyrocket.  How many people are going to continue playing when the moment they decide to start playing for real the game gets more difficult and their feedback becomes really sucky?  It just seems like bad psychology to me and a pipe dream that people who start under "relaxed" rules will ever get over that transition and become golfers.

 

I also do not get the purpose of having outings under the relaxed rules with guys who are already golfers.

 

 

Totally agree. I liken the "relaxed" golf rules to playing basket ball, and you don't have to dribble the ball when you move. IMHO, playing by the rules of golf can be just as much fun, IF you stay clam, and don't take your mistakes to seriously.

post #48 of 144

It seems to me that GC is just trying to appear as if they have come up with a new idea to help stop the game's decline.  In reality there is nothing new here.  These points have been postulated before (I don't have a reference but I've seen them around).  It didn't take a stroke of genius to put them on the Drive.  

 

Stop me if I'm wrong, but aren't these ideas all things that beginners already do without needing to feel secure that they are following a rule?  In fact isn't it more likely to confuse or disillusion a player who carries these "rules" around with him, then gets told regularly that he's not actually playing by the rules?  Or he enters a small competition that asks for his handicap and he gives them an estimate based on his play by those rules, but this tournament plays by the real rules, and he shoots 20 strokes over what he thought was his handicap because he incurs a 2 stroke penalty every time he uses "common sense".

 

In my mind, it's better that the beginner plays much like those "rules" suggest, but that he is aware from the start that he isn't actually playing by the rules and that he should gradually start to learn the correct procedures as his game progresses.  I'm all for encouraging beginners to play in a way that's fun for them, but I'm opposed to any actual suggestion that makes it seem as if that is a recognized mode of play.

post #49 of 144

Yes I see people doing all of that and more all the time, some "serious" golfers. Not a new thing but maybe their initiative is to absolve the guilt, if there is any to begin with. Honestly I think some of the situations they mention can be avoided for many by just moving up. If the goal is to make golf easier why not just make it easier by moving up and give your yourself a legit chance to make pars and bogeys playing it straight. Rules 1-4 could be minimized or avoided completely on some holes.

 

IMO golfers end up in those places because the course is too difficult and long for them not because an inability to follow rules. You wouldn't need to improve your lie if you didn't slice it off the course because you lack the precision to hit it 250 and somewhat straight on a 400 yard par 4. If that hole was 300 yards the inexperienced, unskilled and those with health issues can hit a hybrid and short iron and still have a chance to two putt for par.

post #50 of 144
Quote:
Originally Posted by isukgolf View Post
 

 

I have discovered as you play the game and improve, there is actually a progression to wanting to play better and in line with the USGA official rules.  At least for me, I play by the rules now, and last year I was very relaxed in my play and scoring.  

 

That is certainly true for many - I think most of us followed that path.  But I have also played with far too many seasoned golfers of many years experience who don't have a clue about the rules but think they are playing by them.

 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave2512 View Post
 

Yes I see people doing all of that and more all the time, some "serious" golfers. Not a new thing but maybe their initiative is to absolve the guilt, if there is any to begin with. Honestly I think some of the situations they mention can be avoided for many by just moving up. If the goal is to make golf easier why not just make it easier by moving up and give your yourself a legit chance to make pars and bogeys playing it straight. Rules 1-4 could be minimized or avoided completely on some holes.

 

I agree with this.  I've finally been able to go out a couple of times in the last week or so and the course I played (Boomerang, in Greeley, if you are familiar with it) has a set of tees about 250 yards shorter than I used to play at my old home course with the next set about 400 yards longer than I am used to.  Since I am a pretty short hitter I played the shorter tees and really enjoyed it.  And since the USGA handicap system takes into account the tees I played from it doesn't render the round useless for handicap purposes, the way playing relaxed rules or 15" hole would.

post #51 of 144
Quote:
Originally Posted by turtleback View Post
 

I agree with this.  I've finally been able to go out a couple of times in the last week or so and the course I played (Boomerang, in Greeley, if you are familiar with it) has a set of tees about 250 yards shorter than I used to play at my old home course with the next set about 400 yards longer than I am used to.  Since I am a pretty short hitter I played the shorter tees and really enjoyed it.  And since the USGA handicap system takes into account the tees I played from it doesn't render the round useless for handicap purposes, the way playing relaxed rules or 15" hole would.

Never been to Boomerang. In fact only been to Greeley a couple of times despite being a native. Most struggling golfers probably don't realize their inconsistency around the greens is directly related to how they get there. A poor shot leads to a poor shot leads to a poor shot. Put yourself in better position to make a par with your tee shot and everything gets easier.

post #52 of 144
Calling them "Rules" is a stretch and like has been said beginners made up those rules for themselves a long time ago.

The biggest thing I would change in those "rules" is that I would make it a bogey limit instead of "double par". Especially if you are in front of me.

The most common words I say to my wife on the golf course are "Pick it up."
post #53 of 144
Quote:
Originally Posted by dnaygs View Post

I play with 17 clubs. I lift clean and place whenever I feel like it, even in bunkers. I take mulligans and gimmes. I drop a ball in the fairway instead of looking for it in the trees. I putt with the flagstick in. I ground my club in hazards. I move my ball out of divots.  Sometimes I'll drive into the rough and move my ball to the fairway.  I'll place a ball instead of dropping it.

Would I do these things in a tournament?  No
If I shot a 90 while doing these things, would I tell people I shot a 90? No

My main goal in golf is simply to have fun, that's it, and personally I don't think following every single rule is the best way to have fun.

If you're not playing in a tournament or for money, and not keeping an official handicap or plan to in the future, do the rules really need to apply?

One could argue that since I'm not following all the rules of golf, I'm not really playing golf.  I'm just walking around a grassy area, hitting a little ball around.  Sounds good to me.

I'm sure a lot of people disagree with me which is good.  What do you think and why?
I'm almost positive this is how John Daly plays golf on the PGA Tour.
post #54 of 144

I think John Daly plays by exactly the same rules as every other golf pro.  Variants of the rules applies only to casual games, and IMO, never for money. E.g., Relaxed Rule #6,  Common Sense.  Precisely Whose Common Sense?  Mine or yours?   If casual,  do as you like but if my $50, and yours, are on the line, we had better agree beforehand. And that is what the Rules are.  

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