Jump to content
IGNORED

Is it time to abandon Amateur and Professional status classifications?


Pave
Note: This thread is 3576 days old. We appreciate that you found this thread instead of starting a new one, but if you plan to post here please make sure it's still relevant. If not, please start a new topic. Thank you!

0  

  1. 1. Should we abandon Amateur and Professional status?

    • Yes
      5
    • No
      18


Recommended Posts

It seems to me that golf has matured far beyond what the original amateur/professional status rules were designed for.

Why shouldn't an amateur be able to accept prizemoney in Tournament (obviously no hcp ie off the stick)?

Why shouldn't a "Pro" be able to have a hcp and play in amateur events?

Is it time for the governing bodies of the game to have a rethink?

Discuss

Link to comment
Share on other sites


It seems to me that golf has matured far beyond what the original amateur/professional status rules were designed for.

Why shouldn't an amateur be able to accept prizemoney in Tournament (obviously no hcp ie off the stick)?

Why shouldn't a "Pro" be able to have a hcp and play in amateur events?

Is it time for the governing bodies of the game to have a rethink?

Discuss

Tell us what's in it for the skilled amateur player who works from 9 to 5 and hits balls during the evening and gets to play at weekends? He gets to compete on an un-level playing field with the professional ... bet he can't wait for that opportunity.

And, you, the pro, wants to play for the amateurs' cheesy trophies?

"Age improves with wine."
 
Wishon 919THI 11*
Wishon 925HL 4w
Wishon 335HL 3h & 4h
Wishon 755pc 5i, 6i, 7i, 8i & 9i
Tad Moore 485 PW
Callaway X 54*
Ping G2 Anser C
Callaway SuperSoft
Titleist StaDry
Kangaroo Hillcrest AB
Link to comment
Share on other sites


  • Administrator

No.

Should an am be able to accept prize money? No. They can accept up to $750. Good enough.

A pro can have a handicap. It's not commonly done, but nothing says pros have to play at scratch.

Erik J. Barzeski —  I knock a ball. It goes in a gopher hole. 🏌🏼‍♂️
Director of Instruction Golf Evolution • Owner, The Sand Trap .com • AuthorLowest Score Wins
Golf Digest "Best Young Teachers in America" 2016-17 & "Best in State" 2017-20 • WNY Section PGA Teacher of the Year 2019 :edel: :true_linkswear:

Check Out: New Topics | TST Blog | Golf Terms | Instructional Content | Analyzr | LSW | Instructional Droplets

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Awards, Achievements, and Accolades

Tell us what's in it for the skilled amateur player who works from 9 to 5 and hits balls during the evening and gets to play at weekends? He gets to compete on an un-level playing field with the professional ... bet he can't wait for that opportunity.

And, you, the pro, wants to play for the amateurs' cheesy trophies?

?????? Who said I want to do that? Oh and by the way, that's what hcps are for- to level the playing field.

No.

Should an am be able to accept prize money? No. They can accept up to $750. Good enough.

A pro can have a handicap. It's not commonly done, but nothing says pros have to play at scratch.

A pro can't have a recognised hcp.

Erik, are you a member of the US PGA?

Link to comment
Share on other sites


I can't think of a good reason why it should change.

I don't know what kinds of amateur tournaments a pro would like to enter but I wouldn't want to see them in something like the State Am taking wins away from college kids and people with regular jobs.

  • Upvote 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites


Good God, NO!
  • Upvote 1

In David's bag....

Driver: Titleist 910 D-3;  9.5* Diamana Kai'li
3-Wood: Titleist 910F;  15* Diamana Kai'li
Hybrids: Titleist 910H 19* and 21* Diamana Kai'li
Irons: Titleist 695cb 5-Pw

Wedges: Scratch 51-11 TNC grind, Vokey SM-5's;  56-14 F grind and 60-11 K grind
Putter: Scotty Cameron Kombi S
Ball: ProV1

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Awards, Achievements, and Accolades

  • Administrator
A pro can't have a recognised hcp.

I don't see anything that says I can't have a recognized handicap if I want.

http://www.usga.org/Rule-Books/Handicap-System-Manual/Handicap-Manual/

http://www.usga.org/Rule-Books/Handicap-System-Manual/Rule-03/

The word "amateur" doesn't even appear on the page (not counting the menus).

Pros typically don't have handicaps… but nothing's stopping them from having one. I followed a link earlier today that showed the handicaps of several PGA Tour pros. Phil Mickelson, Bubba Watson, etc. They post scores when they play Whisper Rock or wherever, and you can get their handicap.

If I played enough golf I could easily enter my scores just like anyone else, and GHIN would give me a handicap card just like anyone else.

Erik, are you a member of the US PGA?

Yeah.

Erik J. Barzeski —  I knock a ball. It goes in a gopher hole. 🏌🏼‍♂️
Director of Instruction Golf Evolution • Owner, The Sand Trap .com • AuthorLowest Score Wins
Golf Digest "Best Young Teachers in America" 2016-17 & "Best in State" 2017-20 • WNY Section PGA Teacher of the Year 2019 :edel: :true_linkswear:

Check Out: New Topics | TST Blog | Golf Terms | Instructional Content | Analyzr | LSW | Instructional Droplets

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Awards, Achievements, and Accolades

  • Administrator
I think you'll find the reason why you won't find anything is because the USGA is the governing body for the amateurs, so I guess it is assumed it applies to amateurs.

The USGA is the governing body for all of GOLF in the U.S. and Mexico. The PGA Tour, PGA section events, etc. follow USGA rules. We don't have different rules for professionals. The USGA is the governing body for golf.

Ditto the R&A; outside the U.S. and Mexico. Makes no sense to me why they would limit handicaps to amateurs only, but I imagine you're aware that most of the members here are from the U.S.

Erik J. Barzeski —  I knock a ball. It goes in a gopher hole. 🏌🏼‍♂️
Director of Instruction Golf Evolution • Owner, The Sand Trap .com • AuthorLowest Score Wins
Golf Digest "Best Young Teachers in America" 2016-17 & "Best in State" 2017-20 • WNY Section PGA Teacher of the Year 2019 :edel: :true_linkswear:

Check Out: New Topics | TST Blog | Golf Terms | Instructional Content | Analyzr | LSW | Instructional Droplets

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Awards, Achievements, and Accolades

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pave

I think you'll find the reason why you won't find anything is because the USGA is the governing body for the amateurs, so I guess it is assumed it applies to amateurs.

The USGA is the governing body for all of GOLF in the U.S. and Mexico. The PGA Tour, PGA section events, etc. follow USGA rules. We don't have different rules for professionals. The USGA is the governing body for golf.

Ditto the R&A; outside the U.S. and Mexico. Makes no sense to me why they would limit handicaps to amateurs only, but I imagine you're aware that most of the members here are from the U.S.

Perhaps he wishes to play against his members for credits in his Pro Shop. :doh:

"Age improves with wine."
 
Wishon 919THI 11*
Wishon 925HL 4w
Wishon 335HL 3h & 4h
Wishon 755pc 5i, 6i, 7i, 8i & 9i
Tad Moore 485 PW
Callaway X 54*
Ping G2 Anser C
Callaway SuperSoft
Titleist StaDry
Kangaroo Hillcrest AB
Link to comment
Share on other sites


I think you'll find the reason why you won't find anything is because the USGA is the governing body for the amateurs, so I guess it is assumed it applies to amateurs.

I think the majority of the U.S. Open field would be shocked to hear this, as would whatever fraction of guys on TOUR need a new putter in 20 months or so. ;-) I see where the confusion comes from though. Many big national amateur golf events in the U.S. are run by the USGA, and all (even those that aren't run by them) are under USGA rules. Worth noting: USGA and NCAA have different rules of amateur status for golfers. By the way, even if the USGA official handicap system [i]did[/i] limit itself to amateurs, it's easy enough to compute a handicap from the 20 most recent rounds (or at least approximate it, if they're in a tournament or at Augusta). TST ran [URL=http://thesandtrap.com/b/the_numbers_game/calculating_the_handicap_indeces_of_the_pros]an article[/URL] about this a little over seven years ago, showing just how dominant Tiger was at the time (among other things).

-- Michael | My swing! 

"You think you're Jim Furyk. That's why your phone is never charged." - message from my mother

Driver:  Titleist 915D2.  4-wood:  Titleist 917F2.  Titleist TS2 19 degree hybrid.  Another hybrid in here too.  Irons 5-U, Ping G400.  Wedges negotiable (currently 54 degree Cleveland, 58 degree Titleist) Edel putter. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Awards, Achievements, and Accolades

  • Moderator

I voted no.  I think it is important to still have an amateur level of the sport.

Scott

Titleist, Edel, Scotty Cameron Putter, Snell - AimPoint - Evolvr - MirrorVision

My Swing Thread

boogielicious - Adjective describing the perfect surf wave

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Awards, Achievements, and Accolades

It seems to me that golf has matured far beyond what the original amateur/professional status rules were designed for.

Why shouldn't an amateur be able to accept prizemoney in Tournament (obviously no hcp ie off the stick)?

Why shouldn't a "Pro" be able to have a hcp and play in amateur events?

Is it time for the governing bodies of the game to have a rethink?

Discuss

A resounding NO from me too.  No amateur I know wants to be competing in a club tournament against all of the local pros.  Handicaps are a necessity for the game, but they are a less than perfect leveling tool.  The wider the disparity in handicap, the less perfect they become.  I have no issue with pros carrying a handicap, nor with them playing in their own division in a tournament, but I draw the line at competing against them for the same purse.  With a properly run amateur tournament, the bragging rights for winning or placing high is at least as important as whatever little prize might be associated with such success, but I don't want that token gift card or whatever it may be going to someone who makes golf his career.  There are plenty of tournaments where local (and not so local) pros are welcomed, and where they compete straight up against each other.  The pros at my home course play in several each year.

In the US, a pro can apply to the USGA to leave the professional ranks and have his amateur status reinstated.  If he wants to compete in my Men's Club, then that's what he's going to have to do.  We are an amateur tournament club, chartered by the Colorado Golf Association, which like many state associations is an associate member of the USGA.  We play USGA Rules, we maintain our members' handicaps under the USGA GHIN system, and we adhere to the USGA requirements for amateurs.  That's how we like it and if that should change the way you want to do it, I'd probably quit playing competition golf.

Rick

"He who has the fastest cart will never have a bad lie."

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Awards, Achievements, and Accolades

It seems that golf is the only major sport that differentiates between amateurs and professionals.

It's the only one that has any reason to.

In my bag:

Driver: Titleist TSi3 | 15º 3-Wood: Ping G410 | 17º 2-Hybrid: Ping G410 | 19º 3-Iron: TaylorMade GAPR Lo |4-PW Irons: Nike VR Pro Combo | 54º SW, 60º LW: Titleist Vokey SM8 | Putter: Odyssey Toulon Las Vegas H7

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Awards, Achievements, and Accolades

It's the only one that has any reason to.

I can only imagine what a pro-am would look like with the NFL.

-- Michael | My swing! 

"You think you're Jim Furyk. That's why your phone is never charged." - message from my mother

Driver:  Titleist 915D2.  4-wood:  Titleist 917F2.  Titleist TS2 19 degree hybrid.  Another hybrid in here too.  Irons 5-U, Ping G400.  Wedges negotiable (currently 54 degree Cleveland, 58 degree Titleist) Edel putter. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Awards, Achievements, and Accolades

It's the only one that has any reason to.


^^^ :beer:

Yeah it's not like we can "enter" an NFL, MLB, or NBA game so that pretty much takes care of itself...and keeps us from getting killed. :-D

Although the local banker playing middle linebacker, ducking 100mph fastballs or drawing a charge against Labron James might be good entertainment.

Link to comment
Share on other sites


Note: This thread is 3576 days old. We appreciate that you found this thread instead of starting a new one, but if you plan to post here please make sure it's still relevant. If not, please start a new topic. Thank you!

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now


×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

Welcome to TST! Signing up is free, and you'll see fewer ads and can talk with fellow golf enthusiasts! By using TST, you agree to our Terms of Use, our Privacy Policy, and our Guidelines.

The popup will be closed in 10 seconds...