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Donald Sterling Banned for Life - Page 6

post #91 of 192
Quote:
Originally Posted by newtogolf View Post
 

I think part of the problem is that you seem willing to make excuses for minorities when they act in a racist or reverse racist manner.  IMO It's insulting for you to dismiss Jay-Z's wearing an offensive medallion because you believe he's too ignorant to know it's offensive or too vain to care but would condemn Jack for doing something similar.   

 

Doesn't equality mean we hold everyone to the same standards and not make excuses for inappropriate and unacceptable behavior?  Would you condone Sterling's comments if you found out his entire family were racists and that he was raised with such values from birth?   

We don't live in a vacuum or in a world devoid of history.  Minorities of all kinds have been persecuted, whereas there isn't a history of oppression directed at white men.  If a Native American kid grows up with a chip on his shoulder towards white people, or a little Afghan boy grows up hating Americans because his family was murdered by our army, I can hardly fault them for that.  Black people, hispanics, Jews, women, basically everybody except white men have been treated unfairly, and so there are somewhat different rules hanging around.

 

It's a double standard that for a long time has existed, and I understand it.

post #92 of 192
Quote:
Originally Posted by Golfingdad View Post
 

We don't live in a vacuum or in a world devoid of history.  Minorities of all kinds have been persecuted, whereas there isn't a history of oppression directed at white men.  If a Native American kid grows up with a chip on his shoulder towards white people, or a little Afghan boy grows up hating Americans because his family was murdered by our army, I can hardly fault them for that.  Black people, hispanics, Jews, women, basically everybody except white men have been treated unfairly, and so there are somewhat different rules hanging around.

 

It's a double standard that for a long time has existed, and I understand it.

 

So what am I supposed to tell my child when he/she meets the Native American child with hate?

 

"Well son, many years ago, white people did very mean things to Native Americans."

 

"Many years ago?, but Dad, what does that have to do with me?  I have not done anything."

 

"I know you haven't, but it still gives them the right to hate white people."

 

Really?  In my experience, what happens is, the hate is returned, and racism continues.  A lose/lose situation.


 

While you are right that we do not live in a world devoid of history, we also do not have time machines to go back and right all of the wrongs.  IMO we need to make the best decisions going forward to do the right thing.  Allowing hate to continue is not going to be helpful to anybody regardless of race.

 

Lets say your wife or friend wrongs you in someway, but then sincerely apologizes and asks for forgiveness.  If you grant that forgiveness, should you still carry a chip on your shoulder (or continue to hold it against them) about it?  IMO, if you continue to hold it against someone, the relation will have a tough time moving forward.

 


 

You are also right that, in history, whites have done the majority of unfair treatment.  Even if it was toward other whites.  That does not mean we should allow hate to continue.  IMO we need to make the right decision moving forward or this never ends.

 


 

Gdad, I like you, and I hope you do not take this personal (I don't/won't), but I really fell that sentiments like this only continue to keep racism alive.

post #93 of 192
Quote:
Originally Posted by Golfingdad View Post
 

We don't live in a vacuum or in a world devoid of history.  Minorities of all kinds have been persecuted, whereas there isn't a history of oppression directed at white men.  If a Native American kid grows up with a chip on his shoulder towards white people, or a little Afghan boy grows up hating Americans because his family was murdered by our army, I can hardly fault them for that.  Black people, hispanics, Jews, women, basically everybody except white men have been treated unfairly, and so there are somewhat different rules hanging around.

 

It's a double standard that for a long time has existed, and I understand it.


Wow! Since I was adopted I don't have any idea who my ancestors were. There could have been some along the line that fell into one of the groups that get a free pass to hate other groups and I don't even know about it.

 

Is there a time limit on how many generations back an ancestor was treated badly to qualify?

post #94 of 192

Hate and racism are taught.  There is no excuse for it regardless of past events.  It could end if we stopped teaching it to our children.  Every culture, religion, race has had evil done to them and done by them in their history.  Perpetuating this conflict is the major problem we have in the world today.  An individual is good or bad, not a culture, religion or race.

post #95 of 192
Quote:
Originally Posted by Golfingdad View Post

We don't live in a vacuum or in a world devoid of history.  Minorities of all kinds have been persecuted, whereas there isn't a history of oppression directed at white men.  If a Native American kid grows up with a chip on his shoulder towards white people, or a little Afghan boy grows up hating Americans because his family was murdered by our army, I can hardly fault them for that.  Black people, hispanics, Jews, women, basically everybody except white men have been treated unfairly, and so there are somewhat different rules hanging around.

It's a double standard that for a long time has existed, and I understand it.

Wow, methinks you've lived in Cali too long. Someone said it best, attitudes such as this perpetuate racism.
post #96 of 192
Quote:
Originally Posted by Golfingdad View Post
 

We don't live in a vacuum or in a world devoid of history.  Minorities of all kinds have been persecuted, whereas there isn't a history of oppression directed at white men.  If a Native American kid grows up with a chip on his shoulder towards white people, or a little Afghan boy grows up hating Americans because his family was murdered by our army, I can hardly fault them for that.  Black people, hispanics, Jews, women, basically everybody except white men have been treated unfairly, and so there are somewhat different rules hanging around.

 

It's a double standard that for a long time has existed, and I understand it.

I'm 2nd generation Italian, my grandfather came here from Italy.  When he and his family arrived in NY they were grateful to be in the land of opportunity despite being very poor. They moved into a neighborhood that was predominantly Irish and at that time Italians were seen as being below the Irish.  My grandfather and his brothers were picked on daily, called horrible names related to their being Italian, spit on and forced to fight until my grandfathers family saved enough money to relocate to a more Italian neighborhood.  

 

I'm not in any way comparing their experiences to the Holocaust or slavery, but let's not make it seem that non-minorities all had an easy time here.  They weren't attacked for skin color or religion, back then it was their nationality.  

post #97 of 192
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gunther View Post


Wow, methinks you've lived in Cali too long. Someone said it best, attitudes such as this perpetuate racism.

 

You don't have to read too deep into a statement like that to get "only white men can be racists".  Or at least, "only white men should be held accountable for being racist".

post #98 of 192
Quote:
Originally Posted by jbishop15 View Post
 

That's what I read too. 

 

But the holding up bit doesn't matter. This isn't a criminal case and they aren't prosecuting him for criminal misconduct. 

You're right. I just assumed that this nut case is going to eventually end up suing somebody (be it the NBA, the girl, whoever) and try to hold his position to spite people. He's 80 and probably won't walk away quietly. In my opinion, his reputation to those who didn't know about his racist past is now tarnished, he's likely about to lose his team and many "friends", etc. I see him as an 80 year old, stubborn old man who has really sad views and a poor outlook on life in general. Why wouldn't he fight for what he thinks is right (again, even though what he thinks is right is garbage).

post #99 of 192
Quote:
Originally Posted by Spyder View Post
 

You're right. I just assumed that this nut case is going to eventually end up suing somebody (be it the NBA, the girl, whoever) and try to hold his position to spite people. He's 80 and probably won't walk away quietly. In my opinion, his reputation to those who didn't know about his racist past is now tarnished, he's likely about to lose his team and many "friends", etc. I see him as an 80 year old, stubborn old man who has really sad views and a poor outlook on life in general. Why wouldn't he fight for what he thinks is right (again, even though what he thinks is right is garbage).

 

Precisely.  I expect that this will become his mission in life.  He's old, and has more money than God.  It'll be nothing to him to spend $100 million or more just to make life difficult for Adam Silver and the NBA.

post #100 of 192
Quote:
Originally Posted by David in FL View Post
 

 

Precisely.  I expect that this will become his mission in life.  He's old, and has more money than God.  It'll be nothing to him to spend $100 million or more just to make life difficult for Adam Silver and the NBA.

Actually he's already found a loophole, his ex-wife will likely assume responsibility for the team since it's part of their shared assets.  He may not be permitted back into the arena but he'll continue to profit and pull the strings in the background.  

post #101 of 192
Quote:
Originally Posted by newtogolf View Post
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by David in FL View Post
 

 

Precisely.  I expect that this will become his mission in life.  He's old, and has more money than God.  It'll be nothing to him to spend $100 million or more just to make life difficult for Adam Silver and the NBA.

Actually he's already found a loophole, his ex-wife will likely assume responsibility for the team since it's part of their shared assets.  He may not be permitted back into the arena but he'll continue to profit and pull the strings in the background.  

 

As a fan, I'm skeptical the NBA will allow him to give/sell the team to anyone in his inner circle. I think if he's associated in any way to the new ownership, NBA players will not want to play for the Clippers, and you'll get something of a fiasco as the team collapses into financial ruin. 

 

It'll be interesting to see what happens. I really think the NBA is going to do all it can to remove any connection to him whatsoever, simply because if his family maintains control, the players will always suspect he's the real owner. 

post #102 of 192
Quote:
Originally Posted by David in FL View Post

You don't have to read too deep into a statement like that to get "only white men can be racists".  Or at least, "only white men should be held accountable for being racist".

Yes sir, agreed. I wish I could say it stuns me but this view is so prevalent today that I know I won't see MLK's vision in my lifetime. Sad.
post #103 of 192
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gunther View Post

Yes sir, agreed. I wish I could say it stuns me but this view is so prevalent today that I know I won't see MLK's vision in my lifetime. Sad.

Don't let that get you down. Unfortunately, our children's grandchildren will not see that vision. Compared to what we have today, that's an unimaginable utopia.

post #104 of 192
Quote:
Originally Posted by newtogolf View Post
 

I'm 2nd generation Italian, my grandfather came here from Italy.  When he and his family arrived in NY they were grateful to be in the land of opportunity despite being very poor. They moved into a neighborhood that was predominantly Irish and at that time Italians were seen as being below the Irish.  My grandfather and his brothers were picked on daily, called horrible names related to their being Italian, spit on and forced to fight until my grandfathers family saved enough money to relocate to a more Italian neighborhood.  

 

I'm not in any way comparing their experiences to the Holocaust or slavery, but let's not make it seem that non-minorities all had an easy time here.  They weren't attacked for skin color or religion, back then it was their nationality.  

My Dad (Irish American) used to throw rocks at the Italians when he was a kid.  He married one though, so feelings can change.

 

My step-grandfather on the other hand was the most bigoted man I knew.  He was awful.  He was so bad though that his grandkids are the exact opposite with regards to race.  So are all our kids.

post #105 of 192
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gunther View Post


Wow, methinks you've lived in Cali too long. Someone said it best, attitudes such as this perpetuate racism.

 

I would say @Golfingdad's statement is relatively true in terms of racial discrimination. In terms of other forms of discrimination he is off by a lot. The type of hatred associated with racism isn't just unique to racism alone. So, yes his comments were a bit short sited. If you look at religious discrimination, that type of thing has no ties to race at all, and many white people have been killed and discriminated based on religion for centuries. 

 

I do agree that minorities can get away with more in the terms of being racists towards whites than whites can towards minorities. Where minorities can say things and they are justified because they are minorities, when in fact its the same way of thinking as any other sort of racism. That sort of thing bothers me a bit. 

 

I do agree, that anybody can be racists. 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Spyder View Post
 

Don't let that get you down. Unfortunately, our children's grandchildren will not see that vision. Compared to what we have today, that's an unimaginable utopia.

 

Utopia is a false ideal anyway, it can never be achieved. 

 

Yea, I doubt I will see MLK's true vision in my lifetime. Though I do think huge strides have been taken, but stills ways to go. 

post #106 of 192
Quote:
Originally Posted by boogielicious View Post
 

My Dad (Irish American) used to throw rocks at the Italians when he was a kid.  He married one though, so feelings can change.

 

My step-grandfather on the other hand was the most bigoted man I knew.  He was awful.  He was so bad though that his grandkids are the exact opposite with regards to race.  So are all our kids.

Exactly, my mom is Irish :beer:.  The point I was trying to make is that too many people forget that before minorities had their issues here, nationalism was just as nasty as racism.   The mentality that some are entitled to harbor deep seated resentment and act out based on how they were treated historically while others cannot doesn't hold up.  We're all in this together, time to leave the past in the past as our families did and move on.  

post #107 of 192
Quote:
Originally Posted by saevel25 View Post
 

 

I would say @Golfingdad's statement is relatively true in terms of racial discrimination. In terms of other forms of discrimination he is off by a lot. The type of hatred associated with racism isn't just unique to racism alone. So, yes his comments were a bit short sited. If you look at religious discrimination, that type of thing has no ties to race at all, and many white people have been killed and discriminated based on religion for centuries. 

 

I do agree that minorities can get away with more in the terms of being racists towards whites than whites can towards minorities. Where minorities can say things and they are justified because they are minorities, when in fact its the same way of thinking as any other sort of racism. That sort of thing bothers me a bit. 

 

I do agree, that anybody can be racists. 

 

 

Utopia is a false ideal anyway, it can never be achieved. 

 

Yea, I doubt I will see MLK's true vision in my lifetime. Though I do think huge strides have been taken, but stills ways to go. 

That's pretty much my point. I don't think racism will ever stop. It can definitely be toned down, but I can't logically say that I personally see any end in sight. That's the sad part.

post #108 of 192

A lot of you guys seem to, fairly quickly, equate me saying that I understand something with me agreeing with it.  @14ledo81 for example.  I didn't say that the Native American kid with hatred towards white people is RIGHT, I said I could understand it.

 

There is an enormous difference there.

 


 

Look, I obviously didn't help my cause any by trying to continue to argue it, so I'll go back to basics and leave it at that:

 

If any of you guys think that Jay-Z wearing a 5% necklace is on the same level as Donald Sterling's comments, or even a hypothetical famous white guy wearing a KKK symbol or Nazi symbol in public, then I don't know what to tell you.  It's not the same, it's not even close to the same, and it will not be for a very long time, if ever.

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