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Do You Have Concealed Carry Permit... - Page 5

post #73 of 195
Quote:
Originally Posted by Always an 80 View Post
 

NOT state law.  Company law.  I know of no state laws, except for that of taverns, that say you cannot carry.  And that is the law.  Look them up, please.  Oh, yeah, and know the difference  legally.

 

I'm not arguing with you about the laws in Indiana.  I don't know them and don't claim to.  I'm just pointing out that what you called a constitutional right is 100% not that.  It is Indiana state law.  It is entirely constitutional for a state to allow commercial establishments to post signs disallowing firearms on the premises.

post #74 of 195
Quote:
Originally Posted by mdl View Post
 

 

I'm not arguing with you about the laws in Indiana.  I don't know them and don't claim to.  I'm just pointing out that what you called a constitutional right is 100% not that.  It is Indiana state law.  It is entirely constitutional for a state to allow commercial establishments to post signs disallowing firearms on the premises.

Correct.  And if they ask you to leave, you should.  Secure your weapon and return unarmed.  What is the problem here?

post #75 of 195
Quote:
Originally Posted by Always an 80 View Post

Correct.  And if they ask you to leave, you should.  Secure your weapon and return unarmed.  What is the problem here?

The sign on the door is them asking, is it not?
post #76 of 195
Quote:
Originally Posted by jamo View Post


The sign on the door is them asking, is it not?

I have been asked to kiss someone's @#s before.  I refused that as well.

post #77 of 195
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shorty View Post
 

As you would know, most of these are youths shooting each other because they were "disrespected".

You having a gun in a supermarket is not saving lives in actuality or potentially.

 

Sorry to be OT, but I really find the idea of feeling the need to be armed quite sad in the face of so much evidence to show it is counterproductive and potentially fatal to the wrong people. But the desire to have no guns in their premises is founded on a desire to save life, not infringe on your desire to be a cowboy.

Actually, it has on numerous occasions publicly and privately.

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by jamo View Post


The sign on the door is them asking, is it not?

That is right and if you want to do business there it should be respected IMO.

post #78 of 195
Quote:
Originally Posted by Always an 80 View Post
 

Correct.  And if they ask you to leave, you should.  Secure your weapon and return unarmed.  What is the problem here?

 

No I'm saying that it is 100% constitutional for state law to say that instead of asking you to leave they may call the police and have you arrested.

post #79 of 195
Quote:
Originally Posted by mdl View Post
 

 

No I'm saying that it is 100% constitutional for state law to say that instead of asking you to leave they may call the police and have you arrested.

They can't have you arrested!!  The police will want to see your permit and will then ask you to follow that establishments wishes.

post #80 of 195
Quote:
Originally Posted by Always an 80 View Post
 

They can't have you arrested!!  The police will want to see your permit and will then ask you to follow that establishments wishes.

 

Again you're misunderstanding my point.  You seem by all rights to know Indiana gun law quite well.  In your earlier posts you claimed this as a constitutional right.  I'm just pointing out that this is without question 100% not a constitutional right.  It is Indiana state law.  It is 100% constitutional for states to instead legislate that you could be arrested instead of asked to leave.

post #81 of 195
Quote:
Originally Posted by mdl View Post
 

 

This is a myth propagated by American pro gun groups.  Those increases came from a change in police statistics and bureaucratic reporting which happened at a similar time.  

Exactly. Thankyou.

If you look up Martin Bryant, the guy who slaughtered 30 odd people at Port Arthur, the act which lead to the buyback, you will find mainly links to crackpots who believe the government did it in order to "disarm" the population. Paranoid people have a vested intetest in wanting to keep their guns. Clearly, most people with a C&C licence are decent law abiding people, but if you look at the big picture, it's crazy. To carry a gun into a hospital because there might be a lunatic in there makes two lunatics with a gun. One real, one imaginary.

post #82 of 195

Guys..... think of your responses, PLEASE!!  This is not a philosophy test.  I am speaking from a legal stance.  You are more than welcome to believe and speak as you wish.  That is your First Amendment Right!  

 

Historically, the Second Amendment secured that First Amendment Right that you are now employing.

post #83 of 195
Quote:
Originally Posted by mdl View Post
 

 

Again you're misunderstanding my point.  You seem by all rights to know Indiana gun law quite well.  In your earlier posts you claimed this as a constitutional right.  I'm just pointing out that this is without question 100% not a constitutional right.  It is Indiana state law.  It is 100% constitutional for states to instead legislate that you could be arrested instead of asked to leave.

Praise Be!!  Now you are almost understanding what you are arguing against.  Keep thinking, Bro.  You are almost there!!

post #84 of 195
Quote:
Originally Posted by Always an 80 View Post

 

Historically, the Second Amendment secured that First Amendment Right that you are now employing.

 

All right.  You don't seem to want to acknowledge what I'm actually saying.  I'll just say one more time that the gun rights you have in Indiana that you so strongly agree with are NOT 2nd amendment rights.  They are simply legislated by the Indiana state government.  You in fact have a quite limited set of places where you're constitutionally protected to carry your gun.

post #85 of 195
Quote:
Originally Posted by Always an 80 View Post
 

Praise Be!!  Now you are almost understanding what you are arguing against.  Keep thinking, Bro.  You are almost there!!

 

I quite understand what I'm arguing against.  I'm arguing against your conflation of state law and constitutional rights.

post #86 of 195
Quote:
Originally Posted by Always an 80 View Post

NOT state law.  Company law.  I know of no state laws, except for that of taverns, that say you cannot carry.  And that is the law.  Look them up, please.  Oh, yeah, and know the difference  legally.

There are several states where a business owner can post that guns are not allowed. Texas as one notable example. Most states vary in their laws, and some of the differences can be a little perplexing.....Indiana's prohibition against carrying at the State Fair as one example you're certainly familiar with. That's why I specifically worded my response the way I did.

Those that carry outside of their home state must familiarize themselves with the specific laws of each individual state before doing so. Reciprocal carry rights do NOT mean reciprocal laws.....so yes, look them up, please!
post #87 of 195

I must mow the lawn now.  Leave you with one last thought.

 

Look up DC murder rate.  Firearms are illegal in DC.  Look up Chicago murder rate, etc...

 

Are you really not getting the reasoning yet as to why law abiding citizens want to be armed??  And why gun laws are ridiculous?  You know the old saying, and looking up these stats will reinforce it....If you outlaw guns, then only outlaws will have guns.

 

BTW, Aussie guy, America defeated your tyranny already cause we had guns.  Go kiss the queens picture and shut the f@*k up.:-)   Cheers mate.

post #88 of 195
Quote:
Originally Posted by Always an 80 View Post
 

I must mow the lawn now.  Leave you with one last thought.

 

Look up DC murder rate.  Firearms are illegal in DC.  Look up Chicago murder rate, etc...

 

Are you really not getting the reasoning yet as to why law abiding citizens want to be armed??  And why gun laws are ridiculous?  You know the old saying, and looking up these stats will reinforce it....If you outlaw guns, then only outlaws will have guns.

 

BTW, Aussie guy, America defeated your tyranny already cause we had guns.  Go kiss the queens picture and shut the f@*k up.:-)   Cheers mate.

 

I'll take this as a tacit admission that you understand that you're wrong about 2nd amendment rights, given you retreated to general arguments about why we should have almost unrestricted gun rights, not that we actually do on a constitutional basis.

post #89 of 195

I have not read all the post's here, but...what I believe is this. buying back guns, and making them illegal for Responsible people to own or to get a CCP does 2 things imho. It takes away the possibility of a gun owner to protect his or her life against a deadly threat.

 

The second thing it does is arms the criminals, as they don't play by the Laws.

 

One thing that needs to be addressed is this. If you apply for a CCP, or you apply to buy a gun resulting in a background check, someone needs to look into the the Mental state of these people. Sane folks don not go around shooting people in schools, or publis places, i.e. malls, theaters ect. There needs to be a good way to check on peoples mental health, and this is where I believe all states fail for the most part.

 

Here in cali, L.A. to be more specific, the cops take illegal guns off criminals all the time, or find them when they do search warrants. Most if not all of these criminals are somewhat mentally challenged, and don't think twice about shooting someone in a crowded public place.

 

I still own guns. I shoot for fun. In the past I went to Jeff Coppers combat school, but never shot in competition. I also believe that in some circumstances being allowed to carry a weapon could save lives. A mentally unbalanced person goes into a restaurant, and starts shooting people, If someone had a CCP, they might be able to neutralize the person shooting thus saving innocent lives.

 

Places like NY, Cali and others states are doing an disservice to it's people by Not allowing CCP's. I know here in my state, if someone breaks into my house, I have specific laws that need to be met to use deadly force, which is stupid imho.

 

Mental, and criminal screening to purchase a weapon should paramount. 

post #90 of 195
Quote:
Originally Posted by mdl View Post
 

 

All right.  You don't seem to want to acknowledge what I'm actually saying.  I'll just say one more time that the gun rights you have in Indiana that you so strongly agree with are NOT 2nd amendment rights.  They are simply legislated by the Indiana state government.  You in fact have a quite limited set of places where you're constitutionally protected to carry your gun.

 

 

I do agree with this. I believe we do have a federal constitutional right to OWN a gun. From there it is up to the states on which type of guns, how they shall be carried. States do have a right to say you can not carry your gun out in public. They can not how ever ban you from owning your gun on your residence because that would go into violating the 2nd amendment rights. 

 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by mdl View Post
 

 

I'm not arguing with you about the laws in Indiana.  I don't know them and don't claim to.  I'm just pointing out that what you called a constitutional right is 100% not that.  It is Indiana state law.  It is entirely constitutional for a state to allow commercial establishments to post signs disallowing firearms on the premises.

 

Correct, private property has the right to grant access to anyone they want, and restrict access. They can restrict a person's access if they are carrying a gun. That is not a state or federal law, it is a private owner's prerogative. 

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