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REALLY Need Putting Help 10 GIRs and not a single Par - Page 4

post #55 of 137
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lihu View Post
 

 

 

Nothing personal, at all. I just wanted you to understand that Erik's position has scientific merit, and that you might want to digest what he writes before responding.

I honestly am confused about what this is supposed to mean. But I really don't need/want an explanation by it. My response was to simply explain that is not what I meant by the word "lock".

post #56 of 137
Quote:
Originally Posted by dbrock504 View Post
 

I honestly am confused about what this is supposed to mean. But I really don't need/want an explanation by it. My response was to simply explain that is not what I meant by the word "lock".

 

Sorry if I offended you, but you have to understand that if you say "lock" then you did not mean "lock" it does lend itself to confusing other people. We can't read your mind over the internet. The only thing we understand is what you write.

 

So, putting is a skill I have learned absolutely nothing about yet (although I got lucky today with 15 putts on the front 9), but the putting thread looks really intriguing to me. When I am ready to learn putting I will definitely learn as much as I can. This includes any research data that I am given for free.

post #57 of 137
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lihu View Post
 

 

Sorry if I offended you, but you have to understand that if you say "lock" then you did not mean "lock" it does lend itself to confusing other people. We can't read your mind over the internet. The only thing we understand is what you write.

 

So, putting is a skill I have learned absolutely nothing about yet (although I got lucky today with 15 putts on the front 9), but the putting thread looks really intriguing to me. When I am ready to learn putting I will definitely learn as much as I can. This includes any research data that I am given for free.


No sir, you aren't offending me. You just aren't communicating clearly to me when you tell me to slow down and read an article when all I doing was correcting my grammatical usage in a post. I understand what you mean by not being able to read my mind through the internet. As I said, I couldn't find another word that conveyed "not flipping your wrists or pushing elbows" in one word at the time. That's why I made sure to correct myself in response to Erik.  I understand we are all here to try and become better golfers by bouncing ideas and theories off of one another.

 

I have a feeling we are both misunderstanding each others intentions. Either way, learn on.

 

P.S. Good job putting today! 15 putts on 9 is awesome!

post #58 of 137
Quote:
Originally Posted by dbrock504 View Post
 


No sir, you aren't offending me. You just aren't communicating clearly to me when you tell me to slow down and read an article when all I doing was correcting my grammatical usage in a post. I understand what you mean by not being able to read my mind through the internet. As I said, I couldn't find another word that conveyed "not flipping your wrists or pushing elbows" in one word at the time. That's why I made sure to correct myself in response to Erik.  I understand we are all here to try and become better golfers by bouncing ideas and theories off of one another.

 

I have a feeling we are both misunderstanding each others intentions. Either way, learn on.

 

P.S. Good job putting today! 15 putts on 9 is awesome!

 

Just luck. My normal putting average is around 18 to 19 on 9 holes. I got a lucky one putt and chip in, which brought it down to 15.

post #59 of 137
Quote:
Originally Posted by dbrock504 View Post
 


No sir, you aren't offending me. You just aren't communicating clearly to me when you tell me to slow down and read an article when all I doing was correcting my grammatical usage in a post. I understand what you mean by not being able to read my mind through the internet. As I said, I couldn't find another word that conveyed "not flipping your wrists or pushing elbows" in one word at the time. That's why I made sure to correct myself in response to Erik.  I understand we are all here to try and become better golfers by bouncing ideas and theories off of one another.

 

I have a feeling we are both misunderstanding each others intentions. Either way, learn on.

 

P.S. Good job putting today! 15 putts on 9 is awesome!

 

 

Even then, I wouldn't classify that as a generalization. If someone is able to put with a weird putting stroke, then all power to them. There are some funky putting strokes on the PGA tour. 

 

Still I would be hesitant to use the word "Lock" with wrists. I don't mind elbows. A lot of golfers today keep their elbows locked in the side of their body. Still, find what works for you. 

post #60 of 137
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lihu View Post
 

 

Just luck. My normal putting average is around 18 to 19 on 9 holes. I got a lucky one putt and chip in, which brought it down to 15.

Do you find your self not 2 putting much or just not sinking putts? In other words, do you often have a +10 ft putt and lag it up there going 6 ft past the hole and now have a challenging 2 putt left and consequently miss then tap in for a 3 putt, or do you have a +10 ft putt and hit it within 3 ft of the hole and miss the "gimmee" ending up in a 3 putt?

 

My point is the approach to how you approach the game might be wrong in comparison to the physical part of putting (club, tempo, ball striking, form, etc.)

post #61 of 137
Quote:
Originally Posted by dbrock504 View Post

Do you find your self not 2 putting much or just not sinking putts? In other words, do you often have a +10 ft putt and lag it up there going 6 ft past the hole and now have a challenging 2 putt left and consequently miss then tap in for a 3 putt, or do you have a +10 ft putt and hit it within 3 ft of the hole and miss the "gimmee" ending up in a 3 putt?

My point is the approach to how you approach the game might be wrong in comparison to the physical part of putting (club, tempo, ball striking, form, etc.)

Yes, I putt a tiny bit more than twice per hole on average. My short game is pretty nonexistent at the moment. Still working on the long game.
post #62 of 137
Quote:
Originally Posted by saevel25 View Post
 

 

 

Even then, I wouldn't classify that as a generalization. If someone is able to put with a weird putting stroke, then all power to them. There are some funky putting strokes on the PGA tour. 

 

Still I would be hesitant to use the word "Lock" with wrists. I don't mind elbows. A lot of golfers today keep their elbows locked in the side of their body. Still, find what works for you. 


And that's completely true. There are some things however that will create inconsistencies and I have noticed one of the biggest ones is people flipping their wrists to hit the ball rather than use their shoulders. My dad does this. Drives me nuts. That's why I used the word "lock" to use a verb that enstiles the imagery of not rolling, flipping, jerking or any other synonym you can think of that relates here. This does not mean to be stiff, grip tight, rigid with your wrists. Always be relaxed with the grip and the wrists, but no funny business. I don't "lock" my elbows either if we are using your literal definition of lock. I don't suggest anyone lock anything in their game. Be fluid, natural, and smooth. I'm going to stop repeating my self now.

post #63 of 137
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lihu View Post

 

Just luck. My normal putting average is around 18 to 19 on 9 holes. I got a lucky one putt and chip in, which brought it down to 15.

 



I'm not much of a fan of the total putts stat. There's too much difference between 36 putts while hitting most of the greens and 36 putts while missing most (or all) of the greens.

I know one guy that's always talking how how few putts he has and how many one putts he has. If you overheard the conversation you would think he's a great putter. What he never throws into the conversation is that he almost never hits a green and is usually chipping for par from just off of the green and "one-putting" for bogey.
post #64 of 137
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lihu View Post


Yes, I putt a tiny bit more than twice per hole on average. My short game is pretty nonexistent at the moment. Still working on the long game.


Although you did not answer my question the way I wanted you to (with the examples), I will TRY and help you here.

 

I used to be this same way. My friend instilled this "new" way of looking at it for me. Most people can't sink a 10 ft putt. 3ft and in, yes. So instead of trying to make it (because in doing so, it means you hit it AT LEAST to the hole) start playing under the hole and just get it as close as possible. This will begin to GUARANTEE 2 putts. You aren't going to miss a 4" putt. Get my point there? Now if you have an 8 ft putt with break for birdie, go for it.

 

That's the way I was doing things and it brought me from a 40's putter to a low 30's putter. Hope it helps.

post #65 of 137
Quote:
Originally Posted by dbrock504 View Post
 


Although you did not answer my question the way I wanted you to (with the examples), I will TRY and help you here.

 

I used to be this same way. My friend instilled this "new" way of looking at it for me. Most people can't sink a 10 ft putt. 3ft and in, yes. So instead of trying to make it (because in doing so, it means you hit it AT LEAST to the hole) start playing under the hole and just get it as close as possible. This will begin to GUARANTEE 2 putts. You aren't going to miss a 4" putt. Get my point there? Now if you have an 8 ft putt with break for birdie, go for it.

 

That's the way I was doing things and it brought me from a 40's putter to a low 30's putter. Hope it helps.

 

 

I try to make every putt I see. I try to make 50 foot putts. I don't get the whole just trying to 2 putt thing. If you have good distance control then might as well try to make it. Given the odds of making a putt outside of 20 feet is slim, but I would at least want the odds. Downhill 3 foot putts don't scare me :-D

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by dbrock504 View Post
 


And that's completely true. There are some things however that will create inconsistencies and I have noticed one of the biggest ones is people flipping their wrists to hit the ball rather than use their shoulders. My dad does this. Drives me nuts. That's why I used the word "lock" to use a verb that enstiles the imagery of not rolling, flipping, jerking or any other synonym you can think of that relates here. This does not mean to be stiff, grip tight, rigid with your wrists. Always be relaxed with the grip and the wrists, but no funny business. I don't "lock" my elbows either if we are using your literal definition of lock. I don't suggest anyone lock anything in their game. Be fluid, natural, and smooth. I'm going to stop repeating my self now.

 

Tell that to Arnie!! Watch old videos of him putting. He hardly had any shoulder movement. It was all slap movement

post #66 of 137
Quote:
Originally Posted by dbrock504 View Post
 

No no no. You misunderstood what I meant by "lock". Lock does not mean stiff. Lock means do no allow movement. Do not flip wrists or flare elbows among impact. I didn't mean be super stiff. In golf, I was always told to be relaxed.

 

I did not misunderstand you.

 

I prefer a little movement of the wrists during the putting stroke. Locking them to disallow movement - which is how I took your use of the word "lock" - inhibits touch and feel. I prefer soft wrists, that allow for a little motion, and soft elbows that orbit around the body gently.

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by dbrock504 View Post
 

I had a feeling that word would have been misunderstood... I really didn't know another word for "don't allow free movement". Be soft, be smooth, be relaxed.

 

Soft and locked are almost antonyms. Something locked in place is unlikely to be described as soft. Soft things tend to allow for movement.

post #67 of 137
Quote:
Originally Posted by saevel25 View Post
 

I try to make every putt I see. I try to make 50 foot putts. I don't get the whole just trying to 2 putt thing. If you have good distance control then might as well try to make it. Given the odds of making a putt outside of 20 feet is slim, but I would at least want the odds. Downhill 3 foot putts don't scare me :-D

 

Tell that to Arnie!! Watch old videos of him putting. He hardly had any shoulder movement. It was all slap movement


Arnie was Arnie. Enough said.

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by iacas View Post
 

 

I did not misunderstand you.

 

I prefer a little movement of the wrists during the putting stroke. Locking them to disallow movement - which is how I took your use of the word "lock" - inhibits touch and feel. I prefer soft wrists, that allow for a little motion, and soft elbows that orbit around the body gently.

 

 

Soft and locked are almost antonyms. Something locked in place is unlikely to be described as soft. Soft things tend to allow for movement.


I have noticed the more movement I allow for myself, the more I seem to push or pull more often. I try to instill consistent strokes every single swing. In doing this, I limit any movement possible other than the natural pendulum motion.

post #68 of 137
Quote:
Originally Posted by dbrock504 View Post
 

Arnie was Arnie. Enough said.

 

That's not much of an argument. :P

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by dbrock504 View Post
 

I have noticed the more movement I allow for myself, the more I seem to push or pull more often. I try to instill consistent strokes every single swing. In doing this, I limit any movement possible other than the natural pendulum motion.

 

I think the relatively small potential cost to accuracy is more than made up for the increased sense of touch and feel one gets from allowing for a little bit of movement in the wrists. I can't say I've ever seen a good "locked wrist" putter.

 

Putting Video (Click to show)

You probably can't even see much wrist motion in this video, but it's there.

 

post #69 of 137
Quote:
Originally Posted by MS256 View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lihu View Post

 

Just luck. My normal putting average is around 18 to 19 on 9 holes. I got a lucky one putt and chip in, which brought it down to 15.

 



I'm not much of a fan of the total putts stat. There's too much difference between 36 putts while hitting most of the greens and 36 putts while missing most (or all) of the greens.

I know one guy that's always talking how how few putts he has and how many one putts he has. If you overheard the conversation you would think he's a great putter. What he never throws into the conversation is that he almost never hits a green and is usually chipping for par from just off of the green and "one-putting" for bogey.

Yeah, by itself it really means nothing.
post #70 of 137
Quote:
Originally Posted by iacas View Post
 

 

That's not much of an argument. :P

 

 

I think the relatively small potential cost to accuracy is more than made up for the increased sense of touch and feel one gets from allowing for a little bit of movement in the wrists. I can't say I've ever seen a good "locked wrist" putter.

 

Putting Video (Click to show)

You probably can't even see much wrist motion in this video, but it's there.

 


I did not see much movement from your wrists there on the down swing and most importantly, on impact. In that video, that person (I guess it was you?) was not flipping their wrists, rolling over on the ball causing the face of the putter to change angle etc. That to me is having relatively locked, still wrists. Same goes to your elbows. Other than the shoulder rotation to maintain a proper pendulum, you remained relatively still from your head to your feet.

post #71 of 137
Quote:
Originally Posted by dbrock504 View Post
 


I did not see much movement from your wrists there on the down swing and most importantly, on impact. In that video, that person (I guess it was you?) was not flipping their wrists, rolling over on the ball causing the face of the putter to change angle etc. That to me is having relatively locked, still wrists. Same goes to your elbows. Other than the shoulder rotation to maintain a proper pendulum, you remained relatively still from your head to your feet.

He doesn't have much movement, and even said so himself.  It's just that when you use the word "lock" or "locked," it means, to most people at least, that there is NO room  AT ALL for movement.  Locked equates to rigid.  I think your statement above that I bolded would be fine if it just said "relatively still wrists."  The word "locked" and "relatively" can't be put together.

 

So it sounds like maybe you agree with him, but are just being, let's say, cavalier with your vocabulary. :beer:

 

P.S.  Hey Erik, nice golf shoes. :-P

post #72 of 137
Quote:
Originally Posted by Golfingdad View Post
 

He doesn't have much movement, and even said so himself.  It's just that when you use the word "lock" or "locked," it means, to most people at least, that there is NO room  AT ALL for movement.  Locked equates to rigid.  I think your statement above that I bolded would be fine if it just said "relatively still wrists."  The word "locked" and "relatively" can't be put together.

 

So it sounds like maybe you agree with him, but are just being, let's say, cavalier with your vocabulary. :beer:

 

P.S.  Hey Erik, nice golf shoes. :-P


You guys really do love to take something and run with it. I do not advise moving your wrists at all. In doing so, you can easily move something off line. All it takes is 1 mm to move that putter face at an angle that disrupts your ball contact. That is how I was taught by a respected coach and that's how I play. It serves me well, and the folks I have played with that move their wrists like Erik did, miss more putts. Maybe that's why Erik missed all 3 putts? ;-) Correct me if I'm wrong, but Phil Mickelson and many other players set a hinge in their wrist right before they start the back swing. Then the LOCK that hinge and do not move their wrists. This is to ensure little funny business throughout the stroke.

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