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Out of bounds, no white stakes

post #1 of 12
Thread Starter 
Same round, played on hole3. In the local rules is stated that out of bounds is marked by white stakes. Also is stated that playing on hole3, hole6 is out of bounds.

Last year there were white stakes between 3 and 6. At this moment no stakes! I played my ball and it came at rest in the rough between 3 and 6. Oob or not?

It is my belief that when stakes in place, I would have been oob. But this is a competition, winner gets honour and maybe a couple of balls.
post #2 of 12
Quote:
Originally Posted by MacDutch View Post

Same round, played on hole3. In the local rules is stated that out of bounds is marked by white stakes. Also is stated that playing on hole3, hole6 is out of bounds.

Last year there were white stakes between 3 and 6. At this moment no stakes! I played my ball and it came at rest in the rough between 3 and 6. Oob or not?

It is my belief that when stakes in place, I would have been oob. But this is a competition, winner gets honour and maybe a couple of balls.

Stroke play?

I'd play a second ball under 3-3 and bring it to the committee.

Without a well defined OB, unless your ball was in the 6 fairway, I'd struggle to call it OB. While you know where the stakes have been in the past, fellow competitors may not.
post #3 of 12
Quote:
Originally Posted by David in FL View Post


Stroke play?

I'd play a second ball under 3-3 and bring it to the committee.

Without a well defined OB, unless your ball was in the 6 fairway, I'd struggle to call it OB. While you know where the stakes have been in the past, fellow competitors may not.

 

I'd agree. If it is in course out of bounds it must be marked by white stakes. Unless it specifically is in the fairway, there is no way of telling where the out of bounds is. 

post #4 of 12
Quote:
Originally Posted by David in FL View Post
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by MacDutch View Post

Same round, played on hole3. In the local rules is stated that out of bounds is marked by white stakes. Also is stated that playing on hole3, hole6 is out of bounds.

Last year there were white stakes between 3 and 6. At this moment no stakes! I played my ball and it came at rest in the rough between 3 and 6. Oob or not?

It is my belief that when stakes in place, I would have been oob. But this is a competition, winner gets honour and maybe a couple of balls.

Stroke play?

I'd play a second ball under 3-3 and bring it to the committee.

Without a well defined OB, unless your ball was in the 6 fairway, I'd struggle to call it OB. While you know where the stakes have been in the past, fellow competitors may not.

 

How can the committee even say what is out of bounds when there is no marked boundary?  The committee was quite negligent in not making sure that the course was properly set up.  

post #5 of 12
Thread Starter 
I think Davids answer is the best. I did not do that, it didn't even come to mind. Maybe because my marker said it was not oob and I wanted to believe that.

It was a strokeplay competition, so next time I will do as David suggested. Not that it mattered, my score was 93, no sigars for me.a5_crying.gif
post #6 of 12
Quote:
Originally Posted by David in FL View Post


Stroke play?

I'd play a second ball under 3-3 and bring it to the committee.

Without a well defined OB, unless your ball was in the 6 fairway, I'd struggle to call it OB. While you know where the stakes have been in the past, fellow competitors may not.

 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by saevel25 View Post
 

 

I'd agree. If it is in course out of bounds it must be marked by white stakes. Unless it specifically is in the fairway, there is no way of telling where the out of bounds is.

 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fourputt View Post
 

 

How can the committee even say what is out of bounds when there is no marked boundary?  The committee was quite negligent in not making sure that the course was properly set up.

Yeah, agree with all of these.  I think David gives you the best playing option.  Matt gives you the likely answer that any reasonable committee is going to come up with.  And Rick is quite right about the committee's negligence.

post #7 of 12
Quote:
Originally Posted by David in FL View Post


Stroke play?

I'd play a second ball under 3-3 and bring it to the committee.

Without a well defined OB, unless your ball was in the 6 fairway, I'd struggle to call it OB. While you know where the stakes have been in the past, fellow competitors may not.


I would do the same, and if there is no committee I would play it as no OB on the hole (very reluctantly).

 

We have a similar hole with OB stakes in the rough between the two holes. I know exactly where the stakes are (because I put them there) but many people would have a hard time knowing if it was a close call without the stakes.

 

The bigger problem would be figuring out what the rest of the field was doing on balls clearly in the other fairway. I honestly don't know what I would do and also don't know what the other guys in our game would do. If any other groups were nearby I would probably drive over and ask them how they wanted to play it.

 

My guess is that we would all take our best guess at whether it was in play or OB and anything on the borderline we would play as in bounds. I'm also almost 100% positive that if I played a ball that I thought was probably OB, even though I might technically be "legal", I would nonchalant the hole and blow the Hell out of playing it well out of subconscious guilt. Not much danger that my score on the hole would gain an advantage over anybody.

post #8 of 12

Personally I see no basis at all for treating the ball as OB.  When you are not off the course property the principle is clear: no stakes, no OB.  For me it is as simple as that.  

 

In a private game the players can decide anything they want.  But in a tournament there is no basis at all in the Rules for a players' group to make a determination of whether a ball is or is not OB.  Whether a ball is OB or not is a question of fact, not a question of interpretation.  And again, no stakes, no OB, IMO.

post #9 of 12

I completely agree.

Quote:
Originally Posted by turtleback View Post
 

Personally I see no basis at all for treating the ball as OB.  When you are not off the course property the principle is clear: no stakes, no OB.  For me it is as simple as that.  

 

In a private game the players can decide anything they want.  But in a tournament there is no basis at all in the Rules for a players' group to make a determination of whether a ball is or is not OB.  Whether a ball is OB or not is a question of fact, not a question of interpretation.  And again, no stakes, no OB, IMO.

 

I agree completely.  Which of the following is the Definition of Out of Bounds?

 

Out of bounds’’ is beyond the boundaries of the course or any part of the course so marked by the Committee.
 

Out of bounds’’ is beyond the boundaries of the course or any part of the course which was marked by the Committee last year but is now left unmarked for those players who actually know it was previously marked to second-guess and for those who weren't around last year to ignore.

It's as simple as turtleback says.  If it isn't marked, it doesn't meet the Definition.  Therefore it cannot be OOB.

 

post #10 of 12
Quote:
Originally Posted by ColinL View Post
 

I completely agree.

 

I agree completely.  

 

Make up your mind, do you agree completely or do you completely agree.  ;-)

post #11 of 12
Quote:
Originally Posted by turtleback View Post

Make up your mind, do you agree completely or do you completely agree.  " src="http://files.thesandtrap.com//images/smilies/new/a2_wink.gif">

 



I am a man of decision. I definitely meant one or the other. Or was it both? Possibly certainly.
post #12 of 12
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fourputt View Post
 

 

How can the committee even say what is out of bounds when there is no marked boundary?  The committee was quite negligent in not making sure that the course was properly set up.  


A lot of courses don't leave hazard stakes out all year. At my course they are brought in for the winter to prevent damage and given a good resanding/painting. All the stakes were put back out on the course just this weekend. In this particular case I believe it was perfectly fine to play the ball as in bounds.

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