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Tiger will have to earn his way onto Ryder Cup team says Captain Tom Watson - Page 7

post #109 of 133
If Watson picks Moore over Tiger and Moore doesn't play well he will get absolutely murdered. Especially if they don't win the cup. Thats the hard part for Tom. He has to have some thoughts on the aftermath if it goes bad and he leaves Tiger at home. Id probably pick him if he improves at all. They all seemed to have a good time at the president's cup and i like having the experience of Tiger and Phil. How many times has Sergio or Ian killed it in the Ryder cup without playing well up to that event.
post #110 of 133

Personally I would pick Tiger, I think they need him for singles.  I would like to see him against Rory.

post #111 of 133

Surely if Watson picks Moore over Tiger it will only be because Tiger hasn't hit his straps.

 

Are you therefore saying that the great American public will crucify Tom under these circumstances in the belief that had he picked Tiger they'd have won a cup which incidentally they've never previously done with Tiger being on the team (in Europe). I'd honestly expect most of them to not just be able to appreciate why Tom did what he'd have done, but also to get behind his decision. Unlike Tom, they won't have the benefit of hindsight, and the luxury of after timing, but doubtless if the result goes the wrong way they'll come flooding out of the woodwork (can you flood out of woodwork?)

 

It actually might even be the breakthrough golf needs. For far too long it seems golf has been trading off the coat tails of Tiger bloody Woods in the US. My own suspicion is that the fickle sports fans will associate with success over failure (unless you're a British tennis fan whose been turning up at Winbledon every year for the best part 7 decades). The best thing that could happen for golf is for a seriously competitive match, going down to the last putt, and Ricky Fowler to sink it securing a half point win

 

Tiger who?

 

I somehow suspect that if the teams are evenly posied going into the Sunday, television viewing figures will respond to that, and not whether a single player is on the team or not

post #112 of 133

Ryan Moore? Eh.....I'd rather have Tiger at 50%. Moore has no experience and he's proven to be able to not play well under pressure. Seems like he's always on the leaderboard and disappears at the end. Heck, the British is a perfect example. He only has one top-10 in his career in a major and that was a T9, so he's not proven on the big stage. I'd take Stricker or Mahan over Moore.

post #113 of 133
Almost everyone I know only watches golf when Tiger is paying and playing well at that. I won't have a single friend who will even turn on the Ryder cup if Tiger isn't playing. He is the ONLY draw in the sport for my group of friends.
post #114 of 133
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jakester23 View Post

If Watson picks Moore over Tiger and Moore doesn't play well he will get absolutely murdered. Especially if they don't win the cup. Thats the hard part for Tom. He has to have some thoughts on the aftermath if it goes bad and he leaves Tiger at home. Id probably pick him if he improves at all.

Good point.

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jakester23 View Post

Almost everyone I know only watches golf when Tiger is paying and playing well at that. I won't have a single friend who will even turn on the Ryder cup if Tiger isn't playing. He is the ONLY draw in the sport for my group of friends.

Another good point.

 

I'm thinking that Watson would get roasted if he did pick Tiger and Tiger played poorly ... but you guys are probably right.  He get roasted MORE if whomever he picked instead of Tiger played poorly.

 

I think Tiger just needs to play decent for the next few weeks to make it easier on Tom to make the picks.  Assuming that happens, it's a fair bet then that he picks Tiger, Phil and Keegan, eh???

post #115 of 133
Quote:
Originally Posted by Golfingdad View Post

 

 

I think Tiger just needs to play decent for the next few weeks to make it easier on Tom to make the picks.  Assuming that happens, it's a fair bet then that he picks Tiger, Phil and Keegan, eh???

 

As long as Zach makes the team on points. If Zach slips out of the top 9, then I think he and Phil get 2 of those Captain's picks and you need to decide between Keegan, Tiger and everyone else for that last spot.

post #116 of 133
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jakester23 View Post

Almost everyone I know only watches golf when Tiger is paying and playing well at that. I won't have a single friend who will even turn on the Ryder cup if Tiger isn't playing. He is the ONLY draw in the sport for my group of friends.

 

Well if the American public are really so fickle as that, then golf might as well give up now, because guess what? One day Tiger won't be very good, and won't be able to play.  That's why i made the point about riding on his coat tails etc America needs to start building up its next generation of golfers in the public imagination, but a short cut to that is being successful. 

post #117 of 133
Quote:
Originally Posted by FarawayFairways View Post

Well if the American public are really so fickle as that, then golf might as well give up now, because guess what? One day Tiger won't be very good, and won't be able to play.  That's why i made the point about riding on his coat tails etc America needs to start building up its next generation of golfers in the public imagination, but a short cut to that is being successful. 
Golf in America is what we call a fringe sport. Tiger is a transcend figure. Over here he brought millions of people to a game they would have never had an interest in. He will fade as will the popularity of golf to the CASUAL golf fan. Its no different than MJ. I don't know where you're from or what sports are popular there. But in the US we have to many to keep up with. Golf along with boxing tennis hockey ect... aren't as popular as the big 3 or the big 2 college sports. In order for us to watch a fringe sport we need a larger than life personality to peak our interest
post #118 of 133
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jakester23 View Post


Golf in America is what we call a fringe sport. Tiger is a transcend figure. Over here he brought millions of people to a game they would have never had an interest in. He will fade as will the popularity of golf to the CASUAL golf fan. Its no different than MJ. I don't know where you're from or what sports are popular there. But in the US we have to many to keep up with. Golf along with boxing tennis hockey ect... aren't as popular as the big 3 or the big 2 college sports. In order for us to watch a fringe sport we need a larger than life personality to peak our interest

Yup.  Go to espn.com and look at the list of shortcuts at the top of the page.  There are 8 sports listed - 5 of which are not even in season right now - and golf isn't even one of them.  You have to hover on "more sports" to find a list that includes golf.

post #119 of 133

Only question I have is Tom Watson taking into consideration who is going to watch across the pond back at home or is he more worried about trying to bring the Cup back to the USA? I just don't see Tom Watson as the kind of guy who will pick Tiger Woods based on tv ratings. Some captains might....Tom doesn't seem like one of those guys.

post #120 of 133
Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisP View Post

Only question I have is Tom Watson taking into consideration who is going to watch across the pond back at home or is he more worried about trying to bring the Cup back to the USA? I just don't see Tom Watson as the kind of guy who will pick Tiger Woods based on tv ratings. Some captains might....Tom doesn't seem like one of those guys.
Tom won't but don't underestimate the power of the network execs. There will be immense pressure on him to pick Tiger and Phil, regardless of form at the time.
post #121 of 133
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jakester23 View Post


Golf in America is what we call a fringe sport. Tiger is a transcend figure. Over here he brought millions of people to a game they would have never had an interest in. He will fade as will the popularity of golf to the CASUAL golf fan. Its no different than MJ. I don't know where you're from or what sports are popular there. But in the US we have to many to keep up with. Golf along with boxing tennis hockey ect... aren't as popular as the big 3 or the big 2 college sports. In order for us to watch a fringe sport we need a larger than life personality to peak our interest

 

MJ is ? Michael Johnson, Michael Jordan, Magic Johnson or Michael Jackson!

 

Reading that just makes me think America might have gone down the easy route. Ryder Cup should be different, and should be presented to the people differently. If the USPGA could but see it, they've actually got a competitive event that other sports in the US can't rival. That is to say, you've got a genuine international team event, that's compelling and played over a time frame that fits very nicely on the schedules. With the possible exception of football (which America is only modest at) you don't play any other sport that has an international dimension to it. Furthermore, it's got a degree of needle to it as well which is something boxing has traded off for decades. Surely that's your USP? The bottom line is that your opponents really want to win, and actually enjoy doing so. Can they really have missed such an obvious trick? Match Play is much more accessible to the casual viewer and more exciting. If you wanted to promote golf, you'd start with matchplay. Just look at the temporary wave of popularism football generated last month. The big difference with golf, is that America could actually win the Ryder Cup.  

 
Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisP View Post
 

Only question I have is Tom Watson taking into consideration who is going to watch across the pond back at home or is he more worried about trying to bring the Cup back to the USA? I just don't see Tom Watson as the kind of guy who will pick Tiger Woods based on tv ratings. Some captains might....Tom doesn't seem like one of those guys.

 

I think it's not very likely to be a consideration. Indeed, I've just received an email from Gleneagles in the last 15 minutes offering me a free Ryder Cup baseball cap if I spend £60 with them. Sounds like business is flat on the American focused merchandise!. Coming off the back of these mysterious 20,000 tickets that have gone on sale (general feeling is that they're unsold American allocations) it doesn't sound as if the Americans are coming anyway. Not to worry, more European fans then.

 

I'll give you an example actually of an event that took place just over a year ago, which also has paralells with selection dilemmas. The British Lions (rugby) were one each with Australia going into the decider. We took 40,000 fans to Sydney to watch the final game (Australia being both very expensive and 12 times zones away from Europe). Going into that match the Coach had to make a decision to go with Irelands greatest ever player and erstwhile talisman, or to pick a form player. He chose the latter. The Irish media in particular went into meltdown and it all turned very nasty. The result? The Lions won by a record margin, the selection was fully vindicated, and not a single Irish complainant could be found on the Monday morning radio shows. 

 

In terms of attendances at Gleneagles, it won't be a problem. We'll keep selling our allocation. If the USPGA want to give us the tickets for 2016 we'll sell those too. The idea that we'd only watch the Ryder Cup dependent on a single players participation is frankly an anathema to us. We actually watch it because its the Ryder Cup. It's the event that brings in the casual sports fan. In fact its the only golf event that does transcend the sporting landscape. There is a reason why Sky laid out a fortune for the rights to it

post #122 of 133
Quote:
Originally Posted by FarawayFairways View Post
 

 

MJ is ? Michael Johnson, Michael Jordan, Magic Johnson or Michael Jackson!

the second one

post #123 of 133
Quote:
Originally Posted by FarawayFairways View Post
 

 

MJ is ? Michael Johnson, Michael Jordan, Magic Johnson or Michael Jackson!

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Grndslmhttr3 View Post
 

the second one

Nope, none of the above. ...

 

post #124 of 133
Quote:
 

it doesn't sound as if the Americans are coming anyway. Not to worry, more European fans then.

 

I know there is a perception (rightly or wrongly) that golf appeals to a moneyed demographic.

 

But one factor for Americans passing up the chance of a Scottish vacation that includes the Ryder Cup might be related to the outrageous cost of airline tickets these days.

 

(Sorry for the off-topic - but I spend a fair amount of time looking for flights from Atlanta to Manchester, because I'd love to get back to Liverpool much more frequently to see my Dad). Even flying in cattle class at the back of the plane, I'm expected to lay out $1200. Changing from Manchester to Heathrow might save a few bucks, but not many (not enough to justify the extra train fare from Euston to Lime Street).

 

From what I can gather, it costs a minimum of $1200 to cross the Atlantic these days. Period. It didn't always used to be like that, especially outside of Christmastime or the height of summer....but then a few years ago there was still some competition. Since then, United bought Continental, American bought US Airways, Delta bought Northwest, etc etc. Guess what? Fewer flights, higher fares, crappier service. (To be fair, British Airways have always been much nicer, and also much more expensive).

 

Flying today, (unless, presumably, you are wealthy enough to snap your fingers and summon up the company Learjet) is a wholly miserable experience and is also incredibly expensive for the everyday person.

 

Out of interest, I just had a quick look on Expedia for flights from a large American city (Atlanta seemed as convenient as any) to both Edinburgh and Glasgow in time for the Ryder Cup. The cheapest ones with the very worst layovers and connections were....(take a guess)....$1200.

 

So, for a US resident, to go to the Ryder Cup and take your wife along for a Scottish vacation means an outlay of at least $2400 before even spending a dime on the rest of the trip. That's quite a lot of money in this economy - or, think how many rounds of golf that would buy back home....

post #125 of 133

Still cheaper than flying London to Sydney though.

post #126 of 133
Quote:
Originally Posted by FarawayFairways View Post
 

 

In terms of attendances at Gleneagles, it won't be a problem. We'll keep selling our allocation. If the USPGA want to give us the tickets for 2016 we'll sell those too. The idea that we'd only watch the Ryder Cup dependent on a single players participation is frankly an anathema to us.  We actually watch it because its the Ryder Cup. It's the event that brings in the casual sports fan. In fact its the only golf event that does transcend the sporting landscape. There is a reason why Sky laid out a fortune for the rights to it

 

 

 

To me, you have the right attitude. If an American won't watch the Ryder Cup simply because Tiger isn't playing then by definition he is more of a Tiger fan than a golf fan. In theory this type of fan won't be watching any golf in the future, because after all Tiger can't play forever.

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