or Connect
TheSandTrap.com › Golf Forum › The 19th Hole › Sports › Derby day!
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:

Derby day! - Page 2

post #19 of 34
Thread Starter 

There was no way the New York race commission was not going to make that change.  They are the only state that does not allow nasal strips without an exemption.  If they California Chrome did not race it would cost them lots of money.  They were wise to make a swift decision and make this a non-story.  I was only two when Affirmed won the last Triple Crown so I am hoping this will be the first that I will be able to remember.  

post #20 of 34

"I was alone in my living room watching and as he came down the stretch pulling away I applauded, and I cried."

(Jack Nicklaus)

 

"Jack don't you understand? All of your life in your game you've been striving for perfection. At the end of the Belmont you saw it."

(Heywood Hale Broun)

 

Looking forward to the Belmont tomorrow and so here's part of my favorite Sports Century episode.

post #21 of 34
I wonder how busy Bethpage Black will be tomorrow morning. Nothing better than a round of golf in the morning and the track in the afternoon.
post #22 of 34
Quote:
Originally Posted by tmac20 View Post

I wonder how busy Bethpage Black will be tomorrow morning. Nothing better than a round of golf in the morning and the track in the afternoon.


Sounds like a really great day to me. :-D

post #23 of 34
Sore loser? d1_bigcry.gif
http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/news/video-california-chrome-owner-angrily-710063

I was rooting for California Chrome to win the Triple Crown but this is ridiculous IMO.

There has never been, and likely never will be, any requirement that horses run in either of the first two legs before running in the Belmont.

There are many reasons such a requirement would be foolish. First and foremost is the health and safety of the horses. A decent owner and/or trainer has some responsibility to not send a horse to post if the horse isn't healthy and fit enough to run the race.

To say that a horse that's scratched as a precautionary measure can't run the future races is nuts.

Some horses are bred for early speed and owners would want them in the Preakness, maybe not the Derby, and certainly not the Belmont.

Other horses are bred for distance and the Belmont would be right up their alley.

The reason the Triple Crown is so hard to win is that a horse has to be dominant in the different distances over horses bred to specialize in those distances.
(Eric Heidens don't come along often and neither do Secretariats and Affirmeds).

That's what makes a Triple Crown winner so special.

Man O War didn't even run in the Derby because his owner thought that was too early in the year for that distance and he may have been the best horse ever (although my generation would beg to differ because we saw Secretariat and didn't see him).
Edited by MS256 - 6/8/14 at 5:38pm
post #24 of 34

 

Stupid.

 

Fake but similar scenario: Tiger wins the first three majors in a calendar year, while Phil MIckelson is out with an injury. Phil wins the PGA, and Tiger finishes second. Phil shouldn't have been allowed to play in the PGA, and Tiger wins the grand slam?

 

You have to beat the field, buddy. Sorry.

post #25 of 34

There needs to be more time between the last two races. Don't blame the other owners for working the system, but the system needs to be adjusted to the times if the Triple Crown is going to ever be viable again. The nature of breeding and conditioning has changed, so the system should adjust. Or either quit pushing the triple crown.

post #26 of 34
Quote:
Originally Posted by shootaglock View Post
 

There needs to be more time between the last two races. Don't blame the other owners for working the system, but the system needs to be adjusted to the times if the Triple Crown is going to ever be viable again. The nature of breeding and conditioning has changed, so the system should adjust. Or either quit pushing the triple crown.

 

Good solution.


But, I think there's also something to be said for something being difficult to win… And who is to say that the length of the race wasn't the determining factor.

post #27 of 34
Quote:
Originally Posted by iacas View Post




Stupid.

Fake but similar scenario: Tiger wins the first three majors in a calendar year, while Phil MIckelson is out with an injury. Phil wins the PGA, and Tiger finishes FOURTH. Phil shouldn't have been allowed to play in the PGA, and So Tiger COMES IN THIRD in the PGA.

You have to beat the field, buddy. Sorry.
FTFY. It's not like his horse barely lost this race or anything. He wasn't even close.
post #28 of 34
Quote:
Originally Posted by Golfingdad View Post

FTFY. It's not like his horse barely lost this race or anything. He wasn't even close.

 

Where did CC finish? Did the other horses who beat him race in the other two events?

post #29 of 34
Quote:
Originally Posted by iacas View Post

 

Where did CC finish? Did the other horses who beat him race in the other two events?

 



Totalist and Commisioner didn't run in either race and Medal Count and Wicked Strong didn't run in the Preakness.

No doubt the grind of those three races makes winning them all close to impossible and it takes something very special and very lucky to pull it off.

If Chrome has an excuse it's an injury he got just after the start. Who knows if that's why he didn't have it that day, because I did and do think he was the best horse, even at a mile and a half.

I would speculate that Chrome beats all of them if equally rested, and if the injury wasn't a major factor.

The Belmont is just so hard to predict because none of those 3 year olds have ever run that far before in a race.
post #30 of 34

The triple crown has always been a very difficult accomplishment. It has never been easy. It takes a one in a billion horse. Physically and heart wise.

 

There is no way to know if the win was b/c of a different track length, conditions, etc. etc. What is known is that the time between the races is a negative for those horses running in all three. It just isn't enough time for them to fully recover to top form.

 

That is what I would like to know. Which is the best horse when on top of their game, not which works the system to win one race, which is a huge accomplishment all it's own. I don't look down on owners/trainers that go for the win by entering one race. They are working within the rules, not cheating. But it is a huge handicap. 

 

If you look back over the years, there are many that have won the first two races and not the last. And it often happens just like this weekend's race. The favorite has no kick/finish.

 

The extra distance of the Belmont may be the biggest factor, but the lack of recovery time is something that could be addressed and taken off the table if the racing industry is interested in ever having another 3 crown winner. 

post #31 of 34
Quote:
Originally Posted by shootaglock View Post

The triple crown has always been a very difficult accomplishment. It has never been easy. It takes a one in a billion horse. Physically and heart wise.


There is no way to know if the win was b/c of a different track length, conditions, etc. etc. What is known is that the time between the races is a negative for those horses running in all three. It just isn't enough time for them to fully recover to top form.


That is what I would like to know. Which is the best horse when on top of their game, not which works the system to win one race, which is a huge accomplishment all it's own. I don't look down on owners/trainers that go for the win by entering one race. They are working within the rules, not cheating. But it is a huge handicap. 


If you look back over the years, there are many that have won the first two races and not the last. And it often happens just like this weekend's race. The favorite has no kick/finish.


The extra distance of the Belmont may be the biggest factor, but the lack of recovery time is something that could be addressed and taken off the table if the racing industry is interested in ever having another 3 crown winner. 


 



I agree with all of that so it just comes down to whether the horse racing community would rather change things to make a Triple Crown easier or not.

It might even be good for horse racing to have Triple Crown winners more often????

But then if it was easier and happened more often would it mean the same thing to people?

I think it's very similar to entering Olympic events. Enter too many and you not only have to be better than everybody else but you have to be better than they are when you are tired and they are not.

I wouldn't be opposed to spreading the races out more, for the good of the horses as much as anything else, but having more Triple Crown winners just for the sake of having Triple Crown winners doesn't interest me much.

Grand Slams in golf and Triple Crowns in horse racing should be something we think we may (but may not) see in a lifetime. But that's just my opinion and may not be in the best interests of either sport.
post #32 of 34

It has been 36 years. By far the longest stretch without a TC winner. They seem to come in spurts.

 

It would be good for the sport. Most people could care less about horse racing in general, but they get exited about these three races. Winning any one of them is a big achievement.

 

I think it is not a matter of easier, rather slightly more possible.

post #33 of 34

Well it looks like Cali Chrome's owners lived up to their partnership name with that sore loser comment.  DAP - Dumb Ass Partners.

post #34 of 34
Quote:
Originally Posted by boogielicious View Post
 

Well it looks like Cali Chrome's owners lived up to their partnership name with that sore loser comment.  DAP - Dumb Ass Partners.

 

This is what happens to you when you go to New York and act like an idiot. You shouldn't be surprised when they pile on.

 

Always there is a moment when it is time for a tourist like Coburn to leave town, go back to wherever it is he comes from, just because New York is going way too fast for him, the way three other horses were going too fast for California Chrome in the last loud stretch of the Belmont Stakes.

 

http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/more-sports/horse-owner-steve-coburn-sore-loser-article-1.1822032

 

Dude, it's SUPPOSED to be hard. That's why it's been 37 years since the last one.

New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:
  Return Home
  Back to Forum: Sports
TheSandTrap.com › Golf Forum › The 19th Hole › Sports › Derby day!