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2014 NFL Draft Tonight! - Page 3

post #37 of 71
Quote:
Originally Posted by JetFan1983 View Post
 

 

Please use multi-quotes when posting. 

 

It's not something you can agree or disagree with. Kelly calls the shots for Philly. 


I'm not multi-quote because y'all are responding AFTER I write. How can I multi-quote then? There are more than 1 man in any organization. To say 1 man calls all the shots is incorrect.

post #38 of 71
Quote:
Originally Posted by dbrock504 View Post
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shindig View Post

What happened to Woods?


Nothing happened to him, he just isn't great talent. Decent, ya ok, but not Sammy Watkins talent. BUF has not had a true #1 WR

 

Tons of pressure on the Bills and Watkins for this to work out right away. I think it will. He does look amazing....

 

Woods flashed some talent though. I think he could be a good WR2.... Stevie Johnson might be on his way out. 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by dbrock504 View Post
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by JetFan1983 View Post
 

 

Please use multi-quotes when posting. 

 

It's not something you can agree or disagree with. Kelly calls the shots for Philly. 


I'm not multi-quote because y'all are responding AFTER I write. How can I multi-quote then? There are more than 1 man in any organization. To say 1 man calls all the shots is incorrect.

 

 

Hmmm, I'm not sure why you're still arguing this, but being that I can already tell you won't waver at all in your position, I'll just stop trying to get you to understand this. 

 

Edit: spelling errors. 


Edited by JetFan1983 - 5/9/14 at 11:59am
post #39 of 71
Quote:
Originally Posted by JetFan1983 View Post

Tons of pressure on the Bills and Watkins for this to work out right away. I think it will. He does look amazing....

Woods flashed some talent though. I think he could be a good WR2.... Stevie Johnson might be on his way out. 


Hmmm, I'm not sure why you're still arguing this, but being that I can already tell you won't waiver at all in your position, I'll just stop trying to get you to understand this. 

FYI, the Lions took a TE, Eric Ebron. Just one more obstacle for you-know-who to overcome. b2_tongue.gif
post #40 of 71
Quote:
Originally Posted by jamo View Post
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by JetFan1983 View Post

Tons of pressure on the Bills and Watkins for this to work out right away. I think it will. He does look amazing....

Woods flashed some talent though. I think he could be a good WR2.... Stevie Johnson might be on his way out. 


Hmmm, I'm not sure why you're still arguing this, but being that I can already tell you won't waiver at all in your position, I'll just stop trying to get you to understand this. 

FYI, the Lions took a TE, Eric Ebron. Just one more obstacle for you-know-who to overcome. b2_tongue.gif

 

Yes, He-who-shall-not-be-named might finally fall into that black hole he's been side-stepping for the past several months :-D 

post #41 of 71
Quote:
Originally Posted by dbrock504 View Post
 

Best trade of the night. BUF needs WR so bad it isn't funny. Sammy Watkins will be a star. They only have 1 WR, Steve Johnson. How are there no holes? That was an awesome trade up, and I think in 5 months, you are really going to love it.

 

The bills recievers are currently

 

1 Stevie Johnson

2. Robert Woods

3. Mike Williams (rec'd via trade from TB)

4. TJ Graham

5. Marquis Goodwin.

 

Solid but unspectacular.  Watkins could really improve the group.

 

But if Watkins means Stevie Johnson is gone, then its this:

 

1 Watkins

2. Robert Woods

3. Mike Williams (rec'd via trade from TB)

4. TJ Graham

5. Marquis Goodwin.

 

Is that better?  Maybe.  Maybe not.  Basically its adding Watkins and giving up Stevie Johnson, #9 overall this year, and probably #9 overall next year.  That's a lot to give up for the marginal difference between Watkins and Stevie Johnson.  I'd rather have Stevie Johnson and Lewan/Ebron, and the #9 pick next year, than Watkins.  

 

If they keep Stevie Johnson, that's a whole other story.  If Watkins is a stud, then Stevie a very good 2 and Woods/Williams very good 3/4.  That's a very talented receiving group.

 

But these are the bills.  Watch them trade Stevie to draft a replacement for Jarius Byrd.  Instead of going into the next season with the same team plus some good players, they let good players go, then replace them.  Treading water.

 

Sometimes I wish they'd move.  It would release me from this useless cycle.

post #42 of 71
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by dbrock504 View Post
 


The only thing I don't like, is the fact that he went to that division. If you think Johnny Football will get away doing Johnny Football things against the defenses (more specifically the talented LB's) of the AFC North (CIN, PIT, BAL) you are sorely mistaken. He has A LOT of developing to go this the next 3 months. I hope it works out. I like JFF, but I don't think it's going to work. I predict the CLE Browns will be searching for their 20th QB in the 2015 draft. I don't mean to rain on your parade. I would have liked to see him go to Minnesota.

You're thinking that a QB won't be able to scramble in the AFC North? When is the last time you watched this division, decades ago? Trust me, you're not raining on my parade lol. Minnesota has nothing to offer any drafted QB to be quite honest. The only potential "weapon" that they have is Riley Cooper and he's not even on the same planet as the elite WRs of the NFL. The Browns have an improved OL (2 pro bowlers), Josh Gordon, Jordan Cameron, and Ben Tate. Your prediction is bold, but baseless. Only time will tell, but if you ask me it looks like a recipe for success. The Browns are vastly improved since last year and our OL was pretty damn good last year too. 90% of the time, Weeden had more than enough time to do something. He just sucked so bad and held the ball for so damn long that his ridiculous decision-making and lack of instincts reflected poorly on the entire offense. It's no mishap that a decisive and fast QB with scrambling ability (Hoyer) steps in and goes 3-0 as a starter. This team has always needed a QB, period.

On a side note, he will have time to develop as I am quite positive that the starting QB position is Hoyer's to lose, at least for the foreseeable future.

post #43 of 71
Spyder I agree with everything you said besides it's Hoyer's job to lose. If Johnny Football plays anywhere near as good as Hoyer in the preseason he will be the starter week 1. Hes to big of a draw to be on the bench unless Hoyer is clearly better which I don't think will be the case.
post #44 of 71
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jakester23 View Post

Spyder I agree with everything you said besides it's Hoyer's job to lose. If Johnny Football plays anywhere near as good as Hoyer in the preseason he will be the starter week 1. Hes to big of a draw to be on the bench unless Hoyer is clearly better which I don't think will be the case.

I agree 100%, if they drafted Bridgewater or anyone else at QB they would have time to develop behind Hoyer.  With Manziel, Hoyer will get 2-3 bad starts before the fans will chant and cheer for Johnny Football and management will have no choice but to throw him in there.

post #45 of 71
Quote:
Originally Posted by Spyder View Post
 

You're thinking that a QB won't be able to scramble in the AFC North? When is the last time you watched this division, decades ago? Trust me, you're not raining on my parade lol. Minnesota has nothing to offer any drafted QB to be quite honest. The only potential "weapon" that they have is Riley Cooper and he's not even on the same planet as the elite WRs of the NFL. The Browns have an improved OL (2 pro bowlers), Josh Gordon, Jordan Cameron, and Ben Tate. Your prediction is bold, but baseless. Only time will tell, but if you ask me it looks like a recipe for success. The Browns are vastly improved since last year and our OL was pretty damn good last year too. 90% of the time, Weeden had more than enough time to do something. He just sucked so bad and held the ball for so damn long that his ridiculous decision-making and lack of instincts reflected poorly on the entire offense. It's no mishap that a decisive and fast QB with scrambling ability (Hoyer) steps in and goes 3-0 as a starter. This team has always needed a QB, period.

On a side note, he will have time to develop as I am quite positive that the starting QB position is Hoyer's to lose, at least for the foreseeable future.


I love how this guy acts like he knows football, but then uses the wrong players on the wrong team. Riley Cooper is a WR for the Philadelphia Eagles, buddy.

 

Minnesota WR: Greg Jennings, Cordarrelle Patterson, Jerome Simpson

Minnesota TE: Kyle Rudolph

 

Cleveland WR: Josh Gordon, Greg Little, Josh Cooper

Cleveland TE: Jordan Cameron

 

So as you can see. CLE has the upper hand on WR and TE, but not by a landslide. Not to mention having that super strong run game in MIN will offset what Johnny will have to do. CLE has a very poor run game with very poor talent. Ben Tate will continue to be a great backup, but nothing more. When Foster sat and Tate started, he did nothing with it. This sets all eyes on Johnny. I'm not saying he can't scramble, I'm saying in a heavy defensive division, it will make it harder to be as flashy and "lucky" as he was at A&M. You better hope Johnny can throw better with all that time in the pocket. In all of the QB's that were avaliable, Johnny Manziel arguably has the weaker decision making skills and accuracy then the other kids that are in the top 10, in no particular order: Carr, Garrapolo, Savage, Mettenberger, Bortles, McCarron, Murray, Bridgewater, Boyd. Again, I hope it works out for you guys.

 

Lastly, they aren't going to draft a kid like Manziel to have him sit on the bench. Do you know who Kyle Shannahan is? He likes the RG3, Manziel type player. If Manziel can, he will start, not Hoyer. It is Manziel's spot to loose, not Hoyer's.

post #46 of 71
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jakester23 View Post

Spyder I agree with everything you said besides it's Hoyer's job to lose. If Johnny Football plays anywhere near as good as Hoyer in the preseason he will be the starter week 1. Hes to big of a draw to be on the bench unless Hoyer is clearly better which I don't think will be the case.

That's true, there will be pressure to play Johnny for sure. But, again, I just think it's really hard to take a guy that was 3-0 and sit him down in favor of someone who has not yet proven himself in the NFL. Johnny is great, but he's going to need to prove himself before he takes the job. That will happen, I just don't think it's a lock to happen before the start of the season.
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by dbrock504 View Post
 


I love how this guy acts like he knows football, but then uses the wrong players on the wrong team. Riley Cooper is a WR for the Philadelphia Eagles, buddy.

 

Minnesota WR: Greg Jennings, Cordarrelle Patterson, Jerome Simpson

Minnesota TE: Kyle Rudolph

 

Cleveland WR: Josh Gordon, Greg Little, Josh Cooper

Cleveland TE: Jordan Cameron

 

So as you can see. CLE has the upper hand on WR and TE, but not by a landslide. Not to mention having that super strong run game in MIN will offset what Johnny will have to do. CLE has a very poor run game with very poor talent. Ben Tate will continue to be a great backup, but nothing more. When Foster sat and Tate started, he did nothing with it. This sets all eyes on Johnny. I'm not saying he can't scramble, I'm saying in a heavy defensive division, it will make it harder to be as flashy and "lucky" as he was at A&M. You better hope Johnny can throw better with all that time in the pocket. In all of the QB's that were avaliable, Johnny Manziel arguably has the weaker decision making skills and accuracy then the other kids that are in the top 10, in no particular order: Carr, Garrapolo, Savage, Mettenberger, Bortles, McCarron, Murray, Bridgewater, Boyd. Again, I hope it works out for you guys.

 

Lastly, they aren't going to draft a kid like Manziel to have him sit on the bench. Do you know who Kyle Shannahan is? He likes the RG3, Manziel type player. If Manziel can, he will start, not Hoyer. It is Manziel's spot to loose, not Hoyer's.

I put in the wrong name as I"m tied up in a lot of fantasy NBA at this time. I have piles of spreadsheets laying on my desk at this time and I'm preparing NFL DFS data for next season already. The name I meant to make an example of is Greg Jennings, who is on the downside of his career. C Pat is just as streaky as Kenny Stills at best as well. I'm definitely aware of football and I make quite a bit of money from the NFL, so I do believe I know football without acting like it.

And yes, Cleveland does have the WR and TE on lock and by a landslide compared to the Vikings. You're entitled to your own opinions obviously, but if you think Manziel is starting without earning it, you're dead wrong. The only way he's starting is if he proves to be the better QB prior to the season, as it should be. If Farmer and Mikey think Manziel needs more work or development, I can assure you he will ride the pine for a while to develop. He's not going to be tossed to the wolves until he's prepared. 

Mike Pettine: "There will be competition, but I think it will be very difficult, based on my evaluation of this year's draft class, it will be very difficult for anyone in this draft class to come in and beat [Hoyer] out," Pettine told USA Today Sports. "There's that certain 'it' factor he has. Just the way he's attacked his rehab, the way he's attacked learning a new offense.". "What jumped out was his accuracy. I think him going through the drill work that we had put the quarterbacks through in their workouts, and compared it to those [other] guys, it was encouraging to see.".

Time will tell and I'll leave it at that. You can carry on if you like, Adam Schefter Jr.

 

post #47 of 71
Quote:
Originally Posted by JetFan1983 View Post
 

I'm content with what the Jets did. They got a quality safety they can plug in right away

 

The Browns really did good to add a 2015 1st and 4th rounder along with the Bills' 9th overall pick... I dunno if Manziel will be good, but they made a great move here by trading down from 1.4 IMO. 

I'm glad they didn't do anything with the QB like some of the rumors.  Rex always seems to find good safeties.  Another QB would really stunt any growth of Geno IMO.

post #48 of 71
Quote:
Quote:
Originally Posted by JetFan1983 View Post
 

 

That's not true. Kelly calls the shots. This is pretty widely known. The GM, Howie Roseman is more of an advisor to Kelly.

 

Originally Posted by dbrock504 View Post
 


Well, I disagree. Chip Kelly knows as much about defense as Tiger Woods knows about having a faithful marriage. That call came from somewhere else to fill a desperate need at LB. Did the DC, GM, LB Coach make that call? PHI will get what they need eventually.

 

You can disagree all you want but you obviously have no clue about what goes on in Philly. Chip Kelly makes all the calls on personnel including the draft. Howie Roseman and the scout staff assemble the players based on what Kelly wants and needs and together they make up their draft board but Kelly runs the show. There is no way he would have taken the job if he had to cater to Howie Roseman. And what organization in the NFL lets a LB coach make a draft call? The Eagles have a need at multiple positions (WR, CB, safety), not just at OLB.

 

Quote:
I don't know why you mentioned Minnesota. They played no part in any trade with PHI. Minnesota was at 8 picking Anthony Barr who will be the Defensive Rookie of the Year. They moved up from the 2nd round into the 32nd pick with Seattle to secure a QB, Teddy Bridgewater.

 

Pay attention. I said trade down "again" from the 26 spot into the second round with Minnesota before the Vikings made their deal with Seattle. If Kelly was so sold on Smith, he probably could have traded down out of 26 with Minnesota, still got Smith and got another pick as well. Smith had a 2-3 round grade by just about everybody.

post #49 of 71
Quote:
Originally Posted by Spyder View Post
 

That's true, there will be pressure to play Johnny for sure. But, again, I just think it's really hard to take a guy that was 3-0 and sit him down in favor of someone who has not yet proven himself in the NFL. Johnny is great, but he's going to need to prove himself before he takes the job. That will happen, I just don't think it's a lock to happen before the start of the season.
 

I put in the wrong name as I"m tied up in a lot of fantasy NBA at this time. I have piles of spreadsheets laying on my desk at this time and I'm preparing NFL DFS data for next season already. The name I meant to make an example of is Greg Jennings, who is on the downside of his career. C Pat is just as streaky as Kenny Stills at best as well. I'm definitely aware of football and I make quite a bit of money from the NFL, so I do believe I know football without acting like it.

And yes, Cleveland does have the WR and TE on lock and by a landslide compared to the Vikings. You're entitled to your own opinions obviously, but if you think Manziel is starting without earning it, you're dead wrong. The only way he's starting is if he proves to be the better QB prior to the season, as it should be. If Farmer and Mikey think Manziel needs more work or development, I can assure you he will ride the pine for a while to develop. He's not going to be tossed to the wolves until he's prepared. 

Mike Pettine: "There will be competition, but I think it will be very difficult, based on my evaluation of this year's draft class, it will be very difficult for anyone in this draft class to come in and beat [Hoyer] out," Pettine told USA Today Sports. "There's that certain 'it' factor he has. Just the way he's attacked his rehab, the way he's attacked learning a new offense.". "What jumped out was his accuracy. I think him going through the drill work that we had put the quarterbacks through in their workouts, and compared it to those [other] guys, it was encouraging to see.".

Time will tell and I'll leave it at that. You can carry on if you like, Adam Schefter Jr.

 

 

My kind of man with the Fantasy! haha. I completely agree with you there. As I said, "Lastly, they aren't going to draft a kid like Manziel to have him sit on the bench. If Manziel can, he will start, not Hoyer. It is Manziel's spot to loose, not Hoyer's." So we agree and you just don't realize it. Pettine can sing Hoyer's praises all he wants. If Johnny is improving and ready to play, he will. "Adam Schefter Jr." I love it haha. Good talk, bud.

Quote:
Originally Posted by phan52 View Post
 

 

You can disagree all you want but you obviously have no clue about what goes on in Philly. Chip Kelly makes all the calls on personnel including the draft. Howie Roseman and the scout staff assemble the players based on what Kelly wants and needs and together they make up their draft board but Kelly runs the show. There is no way he would have taken the job if he had to cater to Howie Roseman. And what organization in the NFL lets a LB coach make a draft call? The Eagles have a need at multiple positions (WR, CB, safety), not just at OLB.

 

Pay attention. I said trade down "again" from the 26 spot into the second round with Minnesota before the Vikings made their deal with Seattle. If Kelly was so sold on Smith, he probably could have traded down out of 26 with Minnesota, still got Smith and got another pick as well. Smith had a 2-3 round grade by just about everybody.

I believe you and I have different definitions on "making the call". I don't mean to say as if Kelly is not the "last man to run it through". I mean it as the organization, Kelly included, evaluate players and come to a consensus on who fits their highest needs. Not Kelly alone. Kelly has to give the thumbs up to proceed, and I think that's what you are saying and I agree. I'm saying Kelly isn't scouting LB's. He is letting his staff do that. He is the offensive master mind. That's all I meant by it.

 

I suppose I misunderstood that initial comment you made. My mistake. I do agree they could have squeezed more out of MIN if they wanted to.

post #50 of 71
Quote:
Originally Posted by dsc123 View Post

The bills recievers are currently

1 Stevie Johnson
2. Robert Woods
3. Mike Williams (rec'd via trade from TB)
4. TJ Graham
5. Marquis Goodwin.

Solid but unspectacular.  Watkins could really improve the group.

But if Watkins means Stevie Johnson is gone, then its this:

1 Watkins
2. Robert Woods
3. Mike Williams (rec'd via trade from TB)
4. TJ Graham
5. Marquis Goodwin.

Is that better?  Maybe.  Maybe not.  Basically its adding Watkins and giving up Stevie Johnson, #9 overall this year, and probably #9 overall next year.  That's a lot to give up for the marginal difference between Watkins and Stevie Johnson.  I'd rather have Stevie Johnson and Lewan/Ebron, and the #9 pick next year, than Watkins.  

If they keep Stevie Johnson, that's a whole other story.  If Watkins is a stud, then Stevie a very good 2 and Woods/Williams very good 3/4.  That's a very talented receiving group.

But these are the bills.  Watch them trade Stevie to draft a replacement for Jarius Byrd.  Instead of going into the next season with the same team plus some good players, they let good players go, then replace them.  Treading water.

Sometimes I wish they'd move.  It would release me from this useless cycle.

http://m.espn.go.com/nfl/story?storyId=10908194&src=desktop

Stevie Johnson to the 49ers for a 4th round pick. So Sammy Watkins > Stevie Johnson + 2 first round picks?????

I hope they move to LA.
post #51 of 71
Thread Starter 

Wow, for a 4th round pick?! The Browns should have jumped on that one too.

post #52 of 71
Quote:
Originally Posted by boogielicious View Post
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by JetFan1983 View Post
 

I'm content with what the Jets did. They got a quality safety they can plug in right away

 

The Browns really did good to add a 2015 1st and 4th rounder along with the Bills' 9th overall pick... I dunno if Manziel will be good, but they made a great move here by trading down from 1.4 IMO. 

I'm glad they didn't do anything with the QB like some of the rumors.  Rex always seems to find good safeties.  Another QB would really stunt any growth of Geno IMO.

 

Haha, I gotta be honest.... When the Jets were on the clock, I was kinda hoping they'd take Johnny Football. I have no clue if he'll be good, but the off-season would have been hysterical.... maybe I'm just a glutton for punishment (I'd have to be as a Jets and golf enthusiast). 

 

Good trade for both teams re: Stevie Johnson. He wouldn't have meshed well with Watkins in town, I think. 

post #53 of 71
Quote:
Originally Posted by JetFan1983 View Post
 

 

Haha, I gotta be honest.... When the Jets were on the clock, I was kinda hoping they'd take Johnny Football. I have no clue if he'll be good, but the off-season would have been hysterical.... maybe I'm just a glutton for punishment (I'd have to be as a Jets and golf enthusiast).

 

Good trade for both teams re: Stevie Johnson. He wouldn't have meshed well with Watkins in town, I think.

I didn't think they would, the Jets have wasted too many high picks on QB busts, plus they needed WR and CB's.  I was actually surprised they took a safety, but I like the pick.  I'm hoping Vick wins the job so Smith can learn on the bench for a season.  Smith takes too long reading defenses and has been really hesitant to run with the ball so watching Vick might help him.

 

I think Watkins is going to be a top 10 WR if he has a decent QB.  It was time to let Johnson go and they got decent value for him.  49'ers have a major need at WR and they are getting a guy with at least a year or two left.

post #54 of 71
Quote:
Originally Posted by newtogolf View Post
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by JetFan1983 View Post
 

 

Haha, I gotta be honest.... When the Jets were on the clock, I was kinda hoping they'd take Johnny Football. I have no clue if he'll be good, but the off-season would have been hysterical.... maybe I'm just a glutton for punishment (I'd have to be as a Jets and golf enthusiast).

 

Good trade for both teams re: Stevie Johnson. He wouldn't have meshed well with Watkins in town, I think.

I didn't think they would, the Jets have wasted too many high picks on QB busts, plus they needed WR and CB's.  I was actually surprised they took a safety, but I like the pick.  I'm hoping Vick wins the job so Smith can learn on the bench for a season.  Smith takes too long reading defenses and has been really hesitant to run with the ball so watching Vick might help him.

 

I think Watkins is going to be a top 10 WR if he has a decent QB.  It was time to let Johnson go and they got decent value for him.  49'ers have a major need at WR and they are getting a guy with at least a year or two left.

 

Yea, I'm a tad surprised, but given Rex's love for hard-hitting defenders, it makes sense he would lobby for a guy like this. Idzik and Rex seem like they're on the same page, which is good.

 

But, I thought they would go CB1. Dennard for example. That position is so important to Rex's scheme that I'm surprised they didn't address this need. 

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