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High handicapper "blow up holes" - Page 2

post #19 of 58

As long as you are convinced that you will have a blow up hole every round, you will. Each shot is independent of all others and counts as 1 on the scorecard. No matter what happened up to any given point, you have to assess where you are and what it will take to get the ball into the hole in the fewest strokes possible. I used to go out with the thought that I would have that magical round. As soon as I hit a bad shot or had a bad hole, I would throw in the towel thinking I've screwed up any possibility to shoot a good number. Now I realize that a double followed by two birdies is even par.

 

Here are a few thoughts:

 

Don't try a hero shot unless you know (and I mean KNOW) you can execute it. If you get in trouble, take your medicine, get the ball back in play and FORGET ABOUT IT.

 

Always focus on the shot at hand and not the result. If you're putting for birdie or triple bogey, just think about line and distance. They all count as 1 at the end of the day.

 

Focus on the target and only on the target, whatever it may be. Also, pick good and realistic targets.

 

Finally and most important, if you want to improve, seek professional help.

post #20 of 58
Quote:
Originally Posted by inthehole View Post
 

Eliminating blow up holes is done by playing smart.      Rather than hitting driver off a hole that looks pretty tight - hit a 5 or 6 iron off the tee - or maybe a hybrid you have confidence in ... a 160-180 yard drive on the fairway is better than an OB and starting over 2 shots down.     

 

Here's the thing. A high handicap player can mishit an iron as well. Now you are in trouble and still ways away from the green. I say just play the driver and work on the swing so the misses become less and less. Even if lets say OB is a 10% option, rough is 60% and fairway is 30%. I would still hit the driver. To me being closer to the hole still makes it the best opportunity to hit the green. 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by David in FL View Post

 

It's cliché but true, all you can do is play one stroke, one hole at a time.  Strive for solid ball striking, don't follow a bad shot with a stupid shot, and work on consistency.  When a bad stroke/hole happens, and it does for all of us, you have to be able to let it go and move on.  That next hole doesn't care that you're coming off a bad hole either.  ;-)

 

 

I do agree, that in some regard taking your medicine and moving on is the best thing. Last week I hit a horrible drive, straight into a tree about 30 yards from the tee box. My ball landed 10 yards from the front tees. I had 280 to the green. Water is on the left. I stood over the ball and though, ok play this hole like you are teeing up from right here. Basically I wanted to get the ball in the hole in the next 3-4 shots. I ended up bogeying the hole, but I had a good look at par. 

 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by rdsandy View Post
 

Dave Pelz says it's not the bad shot that give you those blow up holes, it's the recovery shots. He says when you hit a ball behind a tree for instance, your goal will be to advance the ball to a spot as good or better than a good first shot would have been, take the extra stroke and try to negate it with a good chip and/or putt. If you can't then a bogey instead of trying to hit a shot between two trees to get it on the green and you clip a branch and it careens out of bounds etc. etc. 

 

My philosophy is advance the ball as far as you can by playing a high percentage shot. If I feel comfortable threading the needle on a shot, I'll take it. If I am just in jail, then punch it out side ways. To me, I always wants to get as close to the pin as I can on any shot. 

post #21 of 58
Quote:
Originally Posted by saevel25 View Post

Here's the thing. A high handicap player can mishit an iron as well. Now you are in trouble and still ways away from the green.
Thank you! I get so tired of arguing thus with people sometimes, as if the driver is the only club I miss with.

I wish scoring was as simple as "you hit the ball far, so hit a shorter club," but it's not.
post #22 of 58
Quote:
Originally Posted by MattyMFC View Post

Apologies for the loose term, just read it on another thread and it certainly applies to me.

Been playing since July last year. Nearly a year in and I've still only shot a personal best of 102 and forever staying a handicap of 28.

Lately I've improved a lot (last round 103), and I feel I'm starting to make great progress, albeit slowly. There's ALWAYS one hole though where I self destruct and completely bottle it. It tends to be an 8 on a par 4, sometimes worse ... I shot a 12 on a par 4 a couple of months ago.

This may be a daft question but how do I get this stupid hole outta my game? Is it a mental thing?


Got a 9 on a par 5 on Sunday after hitting it OB.  Ended up with an 87.  3 putted 5 times that morning.  That's what really caused me to shoot a higher number, not the one bad hole.

 

This is how I deal with a bad hole.  I tell myself:  "This was bad, but how about you par the next 2-3 holes, and you will be ok."  I try not to look backwards, since there is nothing I can do to change what just happened.  I look at the rest of the round and see opportunities.

 

Good luck. :)

post #23 of 58
Quote:
Originally Posted by MattyMFC View Post

Apologies for the loose term, just read it on another thread and it certainly applies to me.

Been playing since July last year. Nearly a year in and I've still only shot a personal best of 102 and forever staying a handicap of 28.

Lately I've improved a lot (last round 103), and I feel I'm starting to make great progress, albeit slowly. There's ALWAYS one hole though where I self destruct and completely bottle it. It tends to be an 8 on a par 4, sometimes worse ... I shot a 12 on a par 4 a couple of months ago.

This may be a daft question but how do I get this stupid hole outta my game? Is it a mental thing?

 

Take heart, I was in your boat less than 2 years ago, and fumbled around the golf course for almost 2 years before that. If you find good instruction (which I did on this site though 5SK instruction), you will be hitting more greens and have less frustrating moments on the course. Most of my previous frustration was skulling and shanking shots, and when I eliminated those, golf became fun.

 

Learn to swing well enough to hit the same part of the face every time (this should get your "hole outta my game"), improve your ball striking (can't really be more specific since this is what I am still learning), then work on a "bulletproof" short game (so I've been told).

post #24 of 58

Play in easier course maybe?  :-D

 

My take is if someone is over 20 hc, he/she has many aspects of game missing, not just one or two, that is including myself.  What I mean by that is this.  If someone says he/she is only missing one part of game such as driver, try to eliminate that driver and see how much score improves.  I have tried and it wasn't better.  In fact, it was as close as I would've shot with driver.  I thought my iron game was better but it in fact wasn't at all.  

 

Sometimes I score a bogey after 3 putts in par 4 while the other someone scrambles all over the place and still a bogey.  It's the same score yet the latter is not the route you want to go.  That's where the blow-up happens.  For high-handicappers like you and me I realized it's better to go for the safer route like pitch to fairway for 90 yds rather than try to hit 190 yd from rough behind the tree.  I was watching Players yesterday, Kaymer did the same thing after rain delay.  He hit 190 behind tree which settled to the left side with no green to work with and ended up shooting double.  It even affected next hole where he was very lucky ball didn't fall into water and somehow miraculously saved par and went on to win.  

 

Stop trying to hit 3w from 260 yd rough; just hit 150 with 6-7i and hit 9-pw for rest of 110.  Eliminating flag hunting mentality was really key for better score for me because I no longer try to hit the maximum distance for each club, which happens once in maybe 10 tries, but rather try to swing 75-80% to stay safe.  Having said all that, I still have to learn driver better, hit approach better, effectively pitch, sand save, putt.... Did I say high handicappers have a lot of holes to fill?  

post #25 of 58
Quote:
Originally Posted by jsp9999 View Post
 

Play in easier course maybe?  :-D

 

My take is if someone is over 20 hc, he/she has many aspects of game missing, not just one or two, that is including myself.  What I mean by that is this.  If someone says he/she is only missing one part of game such as driver, try to eliminate that driver and see how much score improves.  I have tried and it wasn't better.  In fact, it was as close as I would've shot with driver.  I thought my iron game was better but it in fact wasn't at all.  

 

Sometimes I score a bogey after 3 putts in par 4 while the other someone scrambles all over the place and still a bogey.  It's the same score yet the latter is not the route you want to go.  That's where the blow-up happens.  For high-handicappers like you and me I realized it's better to go for the safer route like pitch to fairway for 90 yds rather than try to hit 190 yd from rough behind the tree.  I was watching Players yesterday, Kaymer did the same thing after rain delay.  He hit 190 behind tree which settled to the left side with no green to work with and ended up shooting double.  It even affected next hole where he was very lucky ball didn't fall into water and somehow miraculously saved par and went on to win.  

 

Stop trying to hit 3w from 260 yd rough; just hit 150 with 6-7i and hit 9-pw for rest of 110.  Eliminating flag hunting mentality was really key for better score for me because I no longer try to hit the maximum distance for each club, which happens once in maybe 10 tries, but rather try to swing 75-80% to stay safe.  Having said all that, I still have to learn driver better, hit approach better, effectively pitch, sand save, putt.... Did I say high handicappers have a lot of holes to fill?  

 

Good advice, but I think the main issue is trying to hit any club to a "distance" is detrimental to good golf. The mentality needs to change to hit the same spot on the club every time, no matter how slow. Select the club that seems to go the distance you need that day, as the distances change on your club from day to day.

 

The strokes I seem to have lost and the improvement in score consistency was the direct result of swinging well within myself.

 

BTW, a 3w out of rough is just asking for trouble, and a 260 yard 3w will translate to 184 yards with a 7i.

post #26 of 58

Random notes on this thread ;-):-P:pound::whistle:

 

  • Play on easier course wide wide fairway, huge green, no water or bunkers.   Or, don't play on easy course.  You will never learn to be accurate. 
  • Been there, done that, and still doing it.  No fun in golf without blown up holes.   Golf is boring when you hit fairway, green, 2 putt all the time.   Ever seen a scratch golfer having fun in a course?   I mean really having fun?
  • Blown up holes is why golfer resort to cheating.  At least, it is one of the major reasons.  
  • Blown up holes help us stay good in math, fuzzy math that is.
  • If you are a high handicapper, laying up just means screwing up with a shorter club.   Stick to driver (or longest club for every shot) so that if your ball ends in lateral hazard, at least you get the distance.
  • Yesterday, I had 10 pars and failed to break 90.  Life is good.  Golf isn't.   Time to pick up a different hobby.

 

More ranting to come on this subject ... 

post #27 of 58
Quote:
Originally Posted by rkim291968 View Post
 
  • Yesterday, I had 10 pars and failed to break 90.  Life is good.  Golf isn't.   Time to pick up a different hobby.

 

Ouch. But then there is that one shot that keeps you coming back. ;-)

post #28 of 58

I had a 490-yard uphill par 5 that was killing me: OB left and right, with a gusting crosswind and a drive over a cross-bunker. Ends up at plateau green with bunkers left and right. Took a lot of 8s.

 

First time I played this year,  I hit a 4H off tee, a 4H uphill to a level area, and a 6i just over back - bypassed the bunkers at least. Only got a bogey 6, but was a big improvement over several trips last year.

 

If you just don't feel good on the tee box, play it safe. On a longer par 4, a safe tee shot and a lay-up approach leaves you a half-wedge from fairway. And, an outside chance at a par. Lots of bogies and a few pars is the route to breaking 90!

 

Don't try a shot you can't commit to. And, it will vary day to day.

post #29 of 58

Even playing safe at our level can screw you - played too pretty uneventful rounds this weekend, pretty much GIR +1 and a 2 putt on almost every hole (a couple of pars and doubles sprinkled in)

 

Then yesterday on the 16th hole, one of our shortest par 4s that plays at 365ish, it all came apart.

 

Tee shot was a little too left for me to go over the trees for the GIR, so I laid up to the stream, proceeded to chunk my 85 yard approach shot into the stream/ditch 5 yards in front of me, 2nd attempt - bunker right, tried to putt out of the sand and failed, out of the bunker and a one putt for a snowman.

post #30 of 58
Quote:
Originally Posted by saevel25 View Post
 

Even if lets say OB is a 10% option, rough is 60% and fairway is 30%. I would still hit the driver. 

 

...

 

My philosophy is advance the ball as far as you can by playing a high percentage shot.

 

somewhat conflicting, but to each his own.

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by billchao View Post


Thank you! I get so tired of arguing thus with people sometimes, as if the driver is the only club I miss with.

 

at least for me, a miss with an iron is generally still straight.  it doesn't go the distance i wanted, but i at least have a make-up shot from the fairway.  

a miss with a wood is generally OB or on an adjacent hole, which can actually add more distance for my second shot than if i had simply played an iron off the tee.

 

again, to each his own.  what works for one person won't work for another.  my point was just not to get caught up in distance, and play a round or two w/o driver and woods.  usually anyone who gives that an honest try surprises themselves.

post #31 of 58
Quote:
Originally Posted by RoyJeeBiv View Post
 

 

somewhat conflicting, but to each his own.

 

 

at least for me, a miss with an iron is generally still straight.  it doesn't go the distance i wanted, but i at least have a make-up shot from the fairway.  

a miss with a wood is generally OB or on an adjacent hole, which can actually add more distance for my second shot than if i had simply played an iron off the tee.

 

again, to each his own.  what works for one person won't work for another.  my point was just not to get caught up in distance, and play a round or two w/o driver and woods.  usually anyone who gives that an honest try surprises themselves.

 

No, highest percentage I mean, what ever gives me the highest percentage of hitting the green, not what is the highest percentage off the tee. 

 

Lets say that from the rough with the wedge I can get 60% green in regulation from fairway or rough. Lets say I can only get 50% from the fairway 20 yards back, and only 30% from the rough 20 yards back hitting a 3 wood. Lets say I improve my fairway percentage to 50%, and negate the OB. 

 

If I hit driver, mathematically I would have 60% x (30% + 60%) = 54%, and the rest is OB or missing the green from short distance. 

 

If I hit 3 wood, I would have 50% x 50% + 30% x 50% = 40% chance. The rest is just missing the green from 20 yards back. 

 

Just to show how the math works. Because the chanced of hitting a green really do decrease pretty fast as you get into the longer irons, even at the PGA level.  Bubba Watson doesn't hit many fairways, but he hits a lot of greens. Wedge from the rough isn't that big of a deal. 

 

So that is what I mean from highest percentage. If I know I can get a near 15% advantage hitting driver, I would take that option. 

post #32 of 58
Quote:
Originally Posted by meenman View Post
 

Even playing safe at our level can screw you - played too pretty uneventful rounds this weekend, pretty much GIR +1 and a 2 putt on almost every hole (a couple of pars and doubles sprinkled in)

 

Then yesterday on the 16th hole, one of our shortest par 4s that plays at 365ish, it all came apart.

 

Tee shot was a little too left for me to go over the trees for the GIR, so I laid up to the stream, proceeded to chunk my 85 yard approach shot into the stream/ditch 5 yards in front of me, 2nd attempt - bunker right, tried to putt out of the sand and failed, out of the bunker and a one putt for a snowman.

Of course, it's game of golf:-O  We all have been there done that.  Playing "safe" isn't always laying up and hit wedge.  It doesn't always generate the best result for one particular hole but it will help reduce expectations of high hcp golfers which results in better score.  One of my friends with hcp ~35ish who recently switched from longest club to always laying up.  His scores were pretty much the same because he doesn't yet know how to chip, putt, sand save within reasonable strokes and adding strokes by laying up from ~160 to 170yd.  Before he was going all over the places, now he goes close to fairway but with a lot of short swings, chips, and putts.  But overall I think he will eventually learn to lower his score since he knows his limit and try to go safer route

post #33 of 58
I'm surprised when people are surprised when they have an 8 in a round of 100+
For eg, OP is struggling to break 100, If he is shooting 108 then his average score per hole is 6.... 8 isn't a "blow up", it's an expected variance.

The "unlucky" blow up hole isn't unlucky and isn't what needs to be addressed.
It's the standard of golf, your swing, your course strategy etc.
Seeking solace with the mentality of "If I could only eliminate these occasionally blow up holes I'd be ok" is the wrong way to look at it.

These "occasional" blow ups come as a result of "consistent" problems with several elements of our game.

I went from shooting high 90's to mid 80's over the last 12 or so months.
Plenty of reasons but to sum them all up, 5 iron.

I was that soldier that got annoyed with people telling me to hit less drives. I don't know how many times I muttered the words "sure I'm just as likely to miss hit an iron"

Then one day it just clicked, I finally looked at my shiny and very much unused 5i that I had a fear of hitting and said, I'm going to hit this well.

I can now hit it with confidence and it has helped every part of my game.
The shorter irons are even easier to hit as a result, but more importantly, I have a club that I know will get me 190 down the fairway.
For any par 4 ranging between 300-360, I feel very comfortable hitting a 5i now (this doesn't come easy, a lot of work went into it but it's much more beneficial to your game than working on your drive... I went 3 months over the winter without hitting my driver at the range, many times I just brought 4i,5i,6i with me.

I was laughing at some of the comments as I read them, not at the posters but laughing because what they were typing was me 12 months ago.
OP, you said that you have 1 wild drive every 3 rounds.... I know scratch golfers that will average 1 a round.
Look at the pros, they will have a wild one per round. But you're better than this???

I'm not having a go at you, I guess I'm just trying to make my point.
12 months ago if I hit a drive 250 and fairly straight only for it to land into a fairway bunker or behind a tree I would have considered it a good drive. It's not.
A hybrid hit fairly straight would have come up short of that bunker. That's a good shot.

And if you go and take a few months of work to get confident with your 5i. The chances of that 8 on the par 3 will be severely reduced.
It may still happen but it'll happen an awful lot less.

Just my 2c, and I don't know why I even typed it up as 12 months ago I would have read something similar and said, that guy is talking sh1t :)
I only learned through countless mistakes, the advice helped but ultimately it was me just thinking - I need to change something about my approach (pun intended ;) ) to this.
post #34 of 58

Some people would disagree with the wide sweeping statement to use a 5i. One or two posters mentioned that they would rather go far and in the rough than short and left with a mid iron to the green.

 

Ultimately, it really depends upon the type of courses you play. If it's a narrow and small sub-6000 yard country club style course, 5i makes a lot of sense many times off the tee. If you're on a 7000 plus yard golf club course, I don't think a 5i is going to help you make pars.

post #35 of 58
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lihu View Post

Some people would disagree with the wide sweeping statement to use a 5i. One or two posters mentioned that they would rather go far and in the rough than short and left with a mid iron to the green.

Ultimately, it really depends upon the type of courses you play. If it's a arrow and small sub-6000 yard country club style course, 5i makes a lot of sense many times off the tee. If you're on a 7000 plus yard golf club course, I don't think a 5i is going to help you make pars.

I thought the OP was shooting 100+
& having blow up holes rather than being at the level were he is looking for pars???

He is averaging about 6 strokes a hole. Assuming par 4 as an average, he has to get away from double bogey golf and onto bogey golf before par golf.

It wasn't a sweeping statement btw.
I said my change was as a result of many things. But the 5i scenario sums it all up nicelyn for me.
I also said that I only use it on 300-360 yard holes... I wouldn't have more than an 7i left at that higher end.

And my point being, if a high HC'er who is shooting 100 works hard to make a 5i a comfortable club and are confident with it, then having a 7i approach will be no problem either.
I'm not saying a 5i is the key and I'm not saying it should be used on every Par 4 or 5.

I was looking back on my stats.
I shot an 83 this year on the same course I had a 97 on 12 months ago.
14 drivers v 7 drivers used.
The "other" 7 were not all 5i's but they were clubs that benefited from my work done tackling my "fear " or long irons (a fear I think most HC'ers have).

The OP is fooling himself if he thinks he only has 1 wild drive every 3 rounds.
That's 1 wild drive in rounds that he's taking somewhere between 310 -340 strokes to complete the 3 rounds. I think not.
post #36 of 58
Quote:
Originally Posted by hopefulhacker View Post


I thought the OP was shooting 100+
& having blow up holes rather than being at the level were he is looking for pars???

He is averaging about 6 strokes a hole. Assuming par 4 as an average, he has to get away from double bogey golf and onto bogey golf before par golf.

It wasn't a sweeping statement btw.
I said my change was as a result of many things. But the 5i scenario sums it all up nicelyn for me.
I also said that I only use it on 300-360 yard holes... I wouldn't have more than an 7i left at that higher end.

And my point being, if a high HC'er who is shooting 100 works hard to make a 5i a comfortable club and are confident with it, then having a 7i approach will be no problem either.
I'm not saying a 5i is the key and I'm not saying it should be used on every Par 4 or 5.

I was looking back on my stats.
I shot an 83 this year on the same course I had a 97 on 12 months ago.
14 drivers v 7 drivers used.
The "other" 7 were not all 5i's but they were clubs that benefited from my work done tackling my "fear " or long irons (a fear I think most HC'ers have).

The OP is fooling himself if he thinks he only has 1 wild drive every 3 rounds.
That's 1 wild drive in rounds that he's taking somewhere between 310 -340 strokes to complete the 3 rounds. I think not.

 

I agree with everything else you wrote, but this one stuck out a little bit. I guess I still consider the 7i a mid iron (anything over 150 yards), I would feel more comfortable with only 50 to 100 yards left on the approach. It really depends upon the course, and how good is your ball striking.

 

The main issue is that as a high handicap, the driver is what dictates the score on the hole. If the drives are good, then the hole score is better. 5i is much more difficult to control even off the tee. Plus, if you are able to hit 5i 190 yards (assume 184 carry), then you would have the swing mechanics to hit a driver ~270 yards with pretty decent accuracy.

 

I would venture to guess that most high handicappers are lucky to get 5i out to 150, and driver out to 200. At those distances, it is possible he only has one wild drive per 3 rounds.

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