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Unplayables in a Bunker - Let's Change a Rule of Golf! - Page 10

post #163 of 170
Quote:
Originally Posted by iacas View Post
 

 

Thanks for playing devil's advocate.

 

I don't know that I agree with A. Bunkers might sometimes turn out to be more penal than a hazard (and this rule is a big part of that), but I don't know that they're "supposed" to be. Who says? I think the overwhelming majority of the time, they're less penal, and they're generally regarded as such. Take for example the Road Hole bunker… people have managed to hole out from it. If instead of sand there were two feet of water there, everyone would take a one-stroke penalty.

 

And I don't know that I agree with B either. Water hazards have distinct lines, and thus you can estimate where they crossed the lines. There are no such lines in tall grass (through the green), and since you've lost track of your golf ball, stroke and distance makes sense.

 

Hazards (water or sand) are not through the green. You can play your ball - without grounding your clubs - from either hazard. Yet from a bunker, you can't drop outside the bunker as you can from a water hazard, despite there being a very clear line that separates "bunker" from "through the green."


I remember watching the Memorial a few years back - and it was discussed that Jack removed every other tyne from the rakes, so that the bunkers couldn't be raked perfectly smooth. As the bunkers should be a penalty... and the way bunkers are manicured on most courses, players almost always prefer a bunker opposed to being in the rough.

post #164 of 170
Quote:
Originally Posted by Finn725 View Post
 


I remember watching the Memorial a few years back - and it was discussed that Jack removed every other tyne from the rakes, so that the bunkers couldn't be raked perfectly smooth. As the bunkers should be a penalty... and the way bunkers are manicured on most courses, players almost always prefer a bunker opposed to being in the rough.

I think that was the same year they had the Open at Oakmont because I remember the discussion about this coming up in regards to the Open as well.  I guess "furrowed" bunkers was a thing a long time ago, and he and the USGA were considering the idea of bringing them back.  That would be fine by me.

 

It's simply about knowing what to expect.  I don't have any problem with hard bunkers or soft bunkers, but I should be able to plan for it.  I would be able to plan for intentional furrows.  It's the unraked footprints that can be a little frustrating, because they can make what should have been a do-able shot into a really difficult shot.  The other thing about bunkers that's frustrating is when they vary a lot within a course.  Some really hard, some really soft sand, some in between.

 

There is nothing at all wrong with bunkers being penal unless it's a situation that you can't plan your strategy around.

post #165 of 170
Quote:
Originally Posted by Golfingdad View Post
 

I think that was the same year they had the Open at Oakmont because I remember the discussion about this coming up in regards to the Open as well.  I guess "furrowed" bunkers was a thing a long time ago, and he and the USGA were considering the idea of bringing them back.  That would be fine by me.

 

It's simply about knowing what to expect.  I don't have any problem with hard bunkers or soft bunkers, but I should be able to plan for it.  I would be able to plan for intentional furrows.  It's the unraked footprints that can be a little frustrating, because they can make what should have been a do-able shot into a really difficult shot.  The other thing about bunkers that's frustrating is when they vary a lot within a course.  Some really hard, some really soft sand, some in between.

 

There is nothing at all wrong with bunkers being penal unless it's a situation that you can't plan your strategy around.


I hate hitting out of footprints too, especially when they're my own from the last attempt. ;-)

 

I remember the year that Jack went with furrowed bunker rakes. As if his bunkers aren't penal enough. Last Friday, I watched Villegas' shot come up short of the bunker on 18. The guy next to me was said, "At least it didn't go in the bunker." I replied that he would prefer that it went in. He gave me a funny look until Camillo's next shot sailed out of the spinach onto the 10th tee box. Personally, I think thick grass bunkers penalize you more than sand bunkers.

post #166 of 170
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Finn725 View Post
 

As the bunkers should be a penalty... and the way bunkers are manicured on most courses, players almost always prefer a bunker opposed to being in the rough.

 

They say that, but no, the stats don't really bear that out. Only on the PGA Tour do they get close, but the grass always wins. And the gap gets wider from there.

post #167 of 170
Quote:
Originally Posted by David in FL View Post
 

 

Speaking of sod-faced bunkers, this is the pic depicting the thread on this site.....

 

300x150px-ZC-cfb7867d_lee_8.jpeg

 

Interestingly, it's tough to tell from this pic, but if this were a sod-faced (stacked turf) bunker, the player would be entitled to drop as far back behind the bunker as he likes, keeping this point between him and the hole. 

Assuming that this in considered to be outside the bunker (through the green) and the course in question was playing the embedded ball rule through the green, would you be entitled to a free drop if it end up getting into this position on the fly?  Would the nearest point of relief likely be behind the bunker?

post #168 of 170
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by MEfree View Post
 

Assuming that this in considered to be outside the bunker (through the green) and the course in question was playing the embedded ball rule through the green, would you be entitled to a free drop if it end up getting into this position on the fly?  Would the nearest point of relief likely be behind the bunker?

 

Off topic and easy to answer for yourself.

 

25-2. Embedded Ball

A ball embedded in its own pitch-mark in the ground in any closely mown areathrough the green may be lifted, cleaned and dropped, without penalty, as near as possible to the spot where it lay but not nearer the hole. The ball when dropped must first strike a part of the coursethrough the green. “Closely mown area” means any area of the course, including paths through the rough, cut to fairway height or less.

Simple suggestion for you @MEfree - post about golf, not about golf rules. You've burned too many bridges and the patience of too many on that.

post #169 of 170
Quote:
Originally Posted by iacas View Post
 

 

Off topic and easy to answer for yourself.

 

25-2. Embedded Ball

A ball embedded in its own pitch-mark in the ground in any closely mown areathrough the green may be lifted, cleaned and dropped, without penalty, as near as possible to the spot where it lay but not nearer the hole. The ball when dropped must first strike a part of the coursethrough the green. “Closely mown area” means any area of the course, including paths through the rough, cut to fairway height or less.

 

I am familiar with the embedded ball rule, but wanted to confirm that a line drive into a sod bank would be considered its "own pitch-mark"

post #170 of 170
Quote:
Originally Posted by MEfree View Post
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by iacas View Post
 

 

Off topic and easy to answer for yourself.

 

25-2. Embedded Ball

A ball embedded in its own pitch-mark in the ground in any closely mown areathrough the green may be lifted, cleaned and dropped, without penalty, as near as possible to the spot where it lay but not nearer the hole. The ball when dropped must first strike a part of the coursethrough the green. “Closely mown area” means any area of the course, including paths through the rough, cut to fairway height or less.

 

I am familiar with the embedded ball rule, but wanted to confirm that a line drive into a sod bank would be considered its "own pitch-mark"

 

Of course it is.  If the ball is embedded in the depression it created by impact with the ground, then it's in it's pitch mark.  Why would you have any question about that?

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