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Graffaloy ProLaunch on a Callaway RAZR X Black?

post #1 of 23
Thread Starter 

I currently have a RAZR X Black driver, 9.5*. I've been to two fitters now who both agree that is the correct loft me, but they both want to see me with a stiff shaft. This shaft is going at a great price on RockBottomGolf.com right now, so I thought I'd give it a shot. What do you think? Would this club and shaft be a good match?

 

http://www.rockbottomgolf.com/grafalloy-prolaunch-axis-golf-shaft.html

post #2 of 23
Quote:
Originally Posted by MarshallRaynor View Post
 

I currently have a RAZR X Black driver, 9.5*. I've been to two fitters now who both agree that is the correct loft me, but they both want to see me with a stiff shaft. This shaft is going at a great price on RockBottomGolf.com right now, so I thought I'd give it a shot. What do you think? Would this club and shaft be a good match?

 

http://www.rockbottomgolf.com/grafalloy-prolaunch-axis-golf-shaft.html


I put this shaft in a Ping G10.

 

JUNK

 

After I used it for 6 months and absolutely hated it, I went to the Stiff Aldila VS. Much better.

 

Remember: you get what you pay for

post #3 of 23
Thread Starter 

What didn't you like about it? I don't really know anything about how a shaft is built, so the weights and all that is totally foreign to me. I just know I was told to look for stiff.

post #4 of 23
Quote:
Originally Posted by MarshallRaynor View Post
 

What didn't you like about it? I don't really know anything about how a shaft is built, so the weights and all that is totally foreign to me. I just know I was told to look for stiff.


I completely understand. That is why I put the shaft in. I was told I needed a stiff shaft instead of the regular that was in it (I had the club for a while). I got an older model, not the Axis one that you have listed there. I got the Graffaloy ProLaunch Platinum.

 

As @WUTiger mentioned in another post: When you are considering a new shaft, consider weight and other factors like torque (amount of twisting), flexpoint (where shaft bends - this finetunes ball height), and tip profile (soft to stiff). Also, factor in your transition (how quickly you start your downswing).

 

The ProLaunch Platinum that I put in my G10 was a mid flight- low torque shaft. It just wasn't right... The ball flight was strange (launched correctly but no roll out) and I had a hard time getting the face of the club square on impact because there was a stiff tip profile and didn't allow the club head to "twist". I either hit straight, or hook every one of my clubs in my bag except the G10. Wicked slice. I recommend you go get fit to see what you need as far as specs go, and then go find the right shaft.

 

Some argue the right shaft is the most important part of the club. It allows for proper flight, distance, roll, and more. Be careful before you just start putting shafts in your club. It's expensive and it's time consuming trying to get used to something that isn't right for you. Believe me...

 

I sold the G10 and got a Callaway X Hot 9.5* Stiff flex and it is a thing of beauty. Mid flight, mid torque.

post #5 of 23

Honestly I don't feel like shafts are all that important to the average golfer. You have to get the right flex and length but I really think beyond that there are other things that are more important.  IMO if your a pro who is really trying to tune in a club a shaft can make a difference but to most of us its just a shinny new toy.  We miss hit the ball so many times I doubt a shaft change will do anything measurable.  But again thats just my opinion.

 

PS I put the pro launch red in my R11 last year and I thought it made a big difference and it did for about 3 rounds but it was in my head.  After a  month or so I was back to hitting a high push fade.    What did make a huge difference for me was working on the 5 keys and improving my swing. 

post #6 of 23

Well I can tell you that after I put in a low torque shaft in, it was the only club in bag that would severely slice. Everyone has their own opinions on what truly matters, but I can tell you those things do matter. However, as Jakester has indicated, if you aren't making proper contact, no equipment will fix that.

post #7 of 23
Thread Starter 

Yeah, I'm on the same boat as dBrock. Other than duffing a  wedge every now and then I make pretty consistent contact. My swing isn't perfect, but it's not too shabby. When I was swinging the TM JetSpeed and the Ping G25 with stiff shafts, I could crank them and it was beautiful. With my current driver, if I go full power, I pick up the most tremendous slice, but if I slow my swing down and only go ~75-80%, it flies.

 

I have a fairly slow backswing and a fast downswing (don't know exact), so I'm sure my transition is pretty fast. Would that be where the torque rating matters? I assume playing a 9.5* that a would want to stick with mid-flight? How do I tell the difference?

post #8 of 23
Quote:
Originally Posted by MarshallRaynor View Post
 

Yeah, I'm on the same boat as dBrock. Other than duffing a  wedge every now and then I make pretty consistent contact. My swing isn't perfect, but it's not too shabby. When I was swinging the TM JetSpeed and the Ping G25 with stiff shafts, I could crank them and it was beautiful. With my current driver, if I go full power, I pick up the most tremendous slice, but if I slow my swing down and only go ~75-80%, it flies.

 

I have a fairly slow backswing and a fast downswing (don't know exact), so I'm sure my transition is pretty fast. Would that be where the torque rating matters? I assume playing a 9.5* that a would want to stick with mid-flight? How do I tell the difference?


The flight thing is just preference as well as their swing habits. Some people have a sweeping swing (me), some people hit it on the up-swing (high ball flight), and some people hit down on the ball (low ball flight). It really depends on what you do, but I would say a mid flight will work well for you. If you are slicing with what you have now, it might be because it is a low torque shaft. That is an "upper-level" driver you have there. Go get a mid flight mid kick mid torque and it should suit you just fine, sir. I went from a 10.5* to 9.5* in loft on my driver as well, meaning that I hit it too high with a 10.5* according to my fitter (launch angle around 17* with the 10.5, 14.5* with the 9.5).

 

Funny- you and I sound exactly alike. I too hit my driver with a large hook (although you have a slice) when I try to bomb it. When I swing 80% its 260+ every time beautiful flight. Some drivers, like my X Hot, don't really need to be swung hard. If 75-80% works for you, swing at 75-80%. There is no shame in that.

 

P.S. I'm not a coach, but the reason you are slicing when you go full speed is you are leaving your hands behind, leaving the club face open. Something you can work with...

post #9 of 23
Slicing isn't exclusively caused by an open club face. If your path is to the right (or open) more than the club face is right ( or open) you would be hitting a push draw.
post #10 of 23
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jakester23 View Post

Slicing isn't exclusively caused by an open club face. If your path is to the right (or open) more than the club face is right ( or open) you would be hitting a push draw.


Correction** P.S. I'm not a coach, but the reason you are slicing when you go full speed is you are leaving your hands behind, leaving the club face open. Something you can work with...

 

P.S. I'm not a coach, but a reason you are slicing could be when you go full speed is you are leaving your hands behind, leaving the club face open. Something you can work with...

 

My fault for sounding definitive.

post #11 of 23
The PL Platinum & VS Proto are both "low torque" shafts. Negligible difference between the 2. Don't read something into "torque" that's not there.
post #12 of 23
Dbrock im not trying to be rude or anything like that but I just don't believe that a shaft causes slices if the flex and length are correct or close to correct. I might be wrong and have been many times before. I just feel like a golfer with a good swing can hit any and all clubs straight/draw/fade/low &high.
post #13 of 23
Quote:
Originally Posted by LBlack14 View Post

The PL Platinum & VS Proto are both "low torque" shafts. Negligible difference between the 2. Don't read something into "torque" that's not there.


Woops... my fault AGAIN!! Not the VS, NV 65. Puke green one. I'm sorry. 3.5 torque. Sorry fella.

 

         Quote:

Dbrock im not trying to be rude or anything like that but I just don't believe that a shaft causes slices if the flex and length are correct or close to correct. I might be wrong and have been many times before. I just feel like a golfer with a good swing can hit any and all clubs straight/draw/fade/low &high.

 

No! You're not rude, and I agree with you! I'm simply just saying, I had one club with certain specs and went to a low torque shaft not thinking it would change anything, and it did. Drastically. I honestly don't know how those things TRULY affect a golfer on a monitor, but I do know through personal experience, it changed things for me. That's all I'm saying.

 

P.S. Flex really isn't even THAT big of an issue. Check out this video that was posted in another thread: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8MLDfgiJuFI

post #14 of 23
Thread Starter 

So, if flex isn't an issue (or as big of an issue), can you clear something up for me?

 

Here are my focus points:

1) Two different drives with S flex shafts, stock length, fly straight, while my R flex, stock length, curves. I also experience this problem with a friend's TM RBZ 2.0, which has a stock length, R flex shaft.

2) With both stiff shafts, I can swing as hard as I want to and still go straight. That tells me that my form is good.

3) With my regular shaft, anything I swing over ~75% arcs, which, when combined with the results from the stiffs, tells me that the shaft is flexing too much and the clubhead isn't keeping up.

 

So, at the risk of sounding thick, how is that not a shaft problem? Or am I misunderstanding what you guys are conversing about? When the only difference in the equation is the shaft flex or type, I have to assume that's the problem.

 

Also, I understand and agree that a great golfer can hit any club and make it work. But I'm not a great golfer. I'm really not even a good golfer. I'm an average golfer. And although a skilled golfer can hit any club, I also believe there wouldn't be the market in club customization that there is if the point of the thing wasn't to make it so that you didn't HAVE to conform to the club. They wouldn't do +- shaft lengths, +- lie angle, different shaft flexes if there didn't need to be the availability to make your clubs work for you and not the other way around. That's the whole point of a fitting session, which is one of the biggest things you can do to improve your game. Ya know? I'm not looking for an easy out to my game. I'm just trying to make sure my equipment isn't working against me any more than I am myself. :-)

post #15 of 23
What I am saying is I feel like a swing flaw is 99.9% of the problem for most of us (pro golfers excluded). I feel like correct length & flex are somewhat important but all of the other stuff like low torque high torque, kick points ect.... aren't really that important. I don't want to sound rude but I doubt that you can pick up a club with a stiff shaft and hit 10 perfectly straight drives. Then grab the same club with a softer shaft and hit 10 slices. It just doesn't work like that. At least I don't think it does.
post #16 of 23
Thread Starter 
10/10: Nope.
42/50: I have witnesses. 3 of them, one the club fitter/swing coach that worked with me at the TM fitting. And Trackman data. Not that they do any of you guys any good. But the example should serve to illustrate that my swing is good enough to look past beginner's luck and into some fitting options.

And I don't mean to sound rude, but it seems to me I have laid out plenty of evidence to support that the shafts are quite important IN MY CASE. You have given me an opinion, but haven't offered any evidence to support it. Though I agree with you on some of your points, I was candid in the fact that I don't think they apply to me. Not because I was better than those points, but because I wasn't good enough for your points to matter to me.
I said in my previous thread I'm a muscular 6'3 guy. I'm not a standard, off-the-shelf club guy. Everyone else's case, I don't know. But from the data I have collected, and opinions from club specialists and a swing coach, this is the answer that scientifically makes sense to me. And both of the club reps who watched my flight straighten up as soon as I wasn't swinging a rubber band. And you are very close to the first person I have encountered who downplays the importance of the shaft flex in the swing, especially in strong swingers such as myself.

So please don't critique me or generalize. Even if you don't think this is the answer, it's the avenue I am choosing to pursue. Humor me.
post #17 of 23

If I could make a suggestion here. I don't recall you having said that you hit your driver with a fitter present, and if they had a trackman, or similar launch monitor. If not, why not get fitted for a shaft..? There are big differences in shafts, i.e. a stiff shaft from Aldila for example, can a few different characteristic's, and those shafts would be different form other makers, but be rated as a stiff shaft.

 

Graffaloy in case you didn't know was famous long time ago, now they mainly make fishing rods. And high quality shafts sell for as much as 400.00, most in the 200.00 to 300.00 range. Anyhow, if I were to buy a new shaft, I'd go see a fitter.

 

As an example, my Aldila NV stiff has a low kick to it, and for an old mans slower tempo and swing speed, it feels whippy to me, if hit at full speed, I get hooks, so I try to compensate by not turning my hands over, I tend to "hold on" a bit, and hit what I call power fades, not a slice, but more fade than I like, normally I hit draws with every other club, my irons have DG S300's, mid flight shafts.

 

And just for the heck of it, I doubt a to flimsy shaft would cause a slice, hook or other unwanted shot. there's a vid on you tube, where a dude hits a Ladies driver over 300 yds, and fairly straight.

post #18 of 23
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hammer 4 View Post

I doubt a to flimsy shaft would cause a slice, hook or other unwanted shot. there's a vid on you tube, where a dude hits a Ladies driver over 300 yds, and fairly straight.
This^^^
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