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How Would You Play It (16 at Saddleback Golf Course in Firestone) - Page 3

post #37 of 122
Quote:
Originally Posted by iacas View Post
 

 

Isthmuses are land. I think you mean the little bit of water right?

Whoops ... why in my head do I think that an isthmus is the opposite of a peninsula?

 

I'm guessing because I learned it as a kid (and either learned it incorrectly or just remember my cheat incorrectly) and never had any reason to try and use it again until now. :8)

 

Yes, I meant the little bit of water.  That little bay :-P is what makes the design, and thus makes you have to think.  Without it (similar to ms's picture) then you just take the club that will clear the water and aim as far left as you dare.

post #38 of 122

By number 16 I'll know if I'm hitting well (enough) that day.

 

I think 90% of the time I'd normally play it as a par 3.  (here it's a 2h or 5w with an 'easy' swing - at altitude, it might even play like a 200 yard shot for me - I like that shot even better 5i or 4h).

Here's another big point in favor - I like the bunkers to gather up anything a bit 'off' - I'm comfy with my bunker game such that I'm playing the odds better by going straight at it.

 

If I'm not straight that day, probably a 6 iron layup then.  But, frankly, if I'm not hitting well, I'm just putting off the troubling bit to my second shot anyway.

 

 

Quote:
Iacas - You hit something at the green. It's 55 yards wide and 75 yards deep. Take enough club, favor the right a little, and hit it.

 

this


Edited by rehmwa - 5/19/14 at 2:26pm
post #39 of 122

With no wind, at this elevation, all carry, 19 hybrid, which carries 205-210 on a good hit.  Might actually do a 3 wood, since carry is about 230-235 on good strike, grip down on it.  BUT there is no way I could consistently hit that green at this length, at my level.

 

Full 3 wood could actually carry all the trouble everywhere out there. Call me crazy, but I might try to aim for that water in the middle between the fairway and the green.  If I pull it, over the green in the bunker (hopefully), if I fade/slice, on the fairway.  If I hit it perfectly straight, it should be on the little strip of land.

 

Tough hole.

post #40 of 122
Quote:
Originally Posted by Golfingdad View Post
 

Whoops ... why in my head do I think that an isthmus is the opposite of a peninsula?

 

I'm guessing because I learned it as a kid (and either learned it incorrectly or just remember my cheat incorrectly) and never had any reason to try and use it again until now. :8)

 

Yes, I meant the little bit of water.  That little bay :-P is what makes the design, and thus makes you have to think.  Without it (similar to ms's picture) then you just take the club that will clear the water and aim as far left as you dare.

a-ya.  If you were from Maine, you'd call it a cove.  A bay is pretty big. ;-)

 

That is why I mentioned to have enough distance to clear that little nasty tongue of water and not just land on the green.  My driver is the least controllable club, but a miss right and long is not bad.

post #41 of 122
Id have to go bubba watson style with slicing driver. Roll that ball along fairway. But the angle of that cove is too sharp in my opinion.

Id tee off with hybrid and get to about the farther tree - rightside of fairway.

Ive hit 200 carry hybrid like... once thusfar. 21deg hybrid.
post #42 of 122

I've played this hole, and found that for me the best option is to hit to the fairway so as to leave a wedge up the chute between the traps guarding the green. A good wedge is one put bird, par if only fair.

 

I have birdied this hole from this strategy, the slope of the green from this perspective is uphill right to left so attacking from here makes sense to me.

 

Too many bad results possible for me to risk driving the green for a one in a thousand chance at an eagle.

post #43 of 122

Too tempting.  I'm going for the green every time.  Maybe I'd shy away if there was some nasty wind or something.  But a 210 yard carry at 5000 ft. is too tempting.  I COULD GET AN EAGLE NOM NOM NOM NOM

post #44 of 122

To be fair, this hole is a par three. It's a long par three, but calling it a par four is dumb. The only eagles on this hole are holes in one.

post #45 of 122
Quote:
Originally Posted by Aguirre View Post
 

Too tempting.  I'm going for the green every time.  Maybe I'd shy away if there was some nasty wind or something.  But a 210 yard carry at 5000 ft. is too tempting.  I COULD GET AN EAGLE NOM NOM NOM NOM


It's not the carry that tests one on this hole, it's accuracy, distance control, and stop. More than a few eagle hopes have turned to double bogeys here. :doh:

post #46 of 122
Quote:
Originally Posted by CR McDivot View Post
 


It's not the carry that tests one on this hole, it's accuracy, distance control, and stop. More than a few eagle hopes have turned to double bogeys here. :doh:

Well, I have eagle hopes on every hole and I definitely make more doubles than eagles. So it'll be just like normal.

post #47 of 122
Quote:
Originally Posted by iacas View Post
 

You hit something at the green. It's 55 yards wide and 75 yards deep. Take enough club, favor the right a little, and hit it.


Measure again! You seem to be counting the traps, slopes, and rough in your estimation. Go for it distance to center of the green from the tips is 265, standard men's tees 230-245.

 

If I remember right the traps are steep and deep, the slopes severe and the rough surrounding the green thick and deep. A miss of the 30x27 yard green rewards your risk with a wet ball or a tough recovery.

post #48 of 122
Quote:
Originally Posted by CR McDivot View Post


Measure again! You seem to be counting the traps, slopes, and rough in your estimation. Go for it distance to center of the green from the tips is 265, standard men's tees 230-245.

If I remember right the traps are steep and deep, the slopes severe and the rough surrounding the green thick and deep. A miss of the 30x27 yard green rewards your risk with a wet ball or a tough recovery.

That's the thing, though, every second shot that's not in the middle of the green is a tough recovery. You could hit a beautiful layup to the middle of the fairway and you've still got water and sand encircling the hole. Might as well have that second shot from as close as possible.
post #49 of 122
Quote:
Originally Posted by jamo View Post


That's the thing, though, every second shot that's not in the middle of the green is a tough recovery. You could hit a beautiful layup to the middle of the fairway and you've still got water and sand encircling the hole. Might as well have that second shot from as close as possible.


The best layup leaves a wedge from the fairway 70 yards to the center, to a 30 yard wide target. I'll take that rather than 240 carry, one hop and stop any day! :roll:

post #50 of 122
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave2512 View Post
 

I have played it a few times, Saddleback is just down the road from me. What he didn't mention is it is almost always breezy there...

Last time I played Saddleback my son-in-law sank a 6 ft putt on 15 that the wind blew a good 8 inches left!

 

Agree totally with your assessment of 16.

post #51 of 122
Quote:
Originally Posted by CR McDivot View Post
 


The best layup leaves a wedge from the fairway 70 yards to the center, to a 30 yard wide target. I'll take that rather than 240 carry, one hop and stop any day! :roll:

You know, it's possible to stop a ball on the green without spin checking it. Especially since the green slopes back towards the tee, the ball just needs to come down from a high apex and it will lose most of its energy, even bounce backwards in some cases without having a high amount of spin. Ball speed and launch angle are also important for stopping the ball, especially with the long clubs. It's not a finesse shot to stop those long approaches, it's a power shot. Hoist the ball into the air and carry everything, the ball will be in the air for so long it will be too tired to roll.

 

There's an ENTIRE STROKE to be gained here. If you can hit to the same target in one shot vs 2 shots, no matter how much tougher the longer approach is, you want to do it. You'll end up so much better off so much of the time it will offset the difficulty. The risk is also probably just as high on the layup, it's quite possible to send it into trouble, but since you spent the stroke to hit the fairway you really NEED to get it close. If you just don't have the carry yardage to reach the green, then you play it from the tees that allow you to do so. Like I said, play it from the ladies tee. That's what laying up will accomplish. Even if you are a short hitting senior, you can carry 130 yards. If you're a beast then hitting 5 iron over water is a thrill.

 

It's also possible to hit into the water on the layup or the approach, doubling the risk. The trouble doesn't magically know when you hit a layup and repel your shot onto the green for you; you can get burned on the layup, plus you already wasted a stroke laying up.

post #52 of 122
Quote:
Originally Posted by jamo View Post


That's the thing, though, every second shot that's not in the middle of the green is a tough recovery. You could hit a beautiful layup to the middle of the fairway and you've still got water and sand encircling the hole. Might as well have that second shot from as close as possible.


That's the way I see it too. The risk of tough up and down or a tough on and two putt is worth it considering there is also a chance of a 2 or a 3 on the hole.

 

Hard for me to say what percentage of shots would go in the water without playing it and I'm not sure what that percentage would have to be to make it no longer worth it to go for the green.

 

My guess is that if I thought there was more than a 10% chance of going in the water I would lay up (unless the match situation forced my hand).

 

Anybody know what percentage of water balls should throw up a red light on a shot like that?

(Which of course we would all have to guestimate according to how we thought we were hitting the ball).

post #53 of 122
Quote:
Originally Posted by CR McDivot View Post
 


The best layup leaves a wedge from the fairway 70 yards to the center, to a 30 yard wide target. I'll take that rather than 240 carry, one hop and stop any day! :roll:

 

 

Still think "going" for the green is the better play. I'd rather have a putt, bunker shot or a 20 yard pitch shot than a 70 yard shot.

post #54 of 122
Quote:
Originally Posted by CR McDivot View Post
 

Measure again! You seem to be counting the traps, slopes, and rough in your estimation. Go for it distance to center of the green from the tips is 265, standard men's tees 230-245.

 

At 5000 feet elevation. And of course I'm measuring that stuff. That's all area that leaves me with a reasonably short shot to the green.

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by CR McDivot View Post
 

If I remember right the traps are steep and deep, the slopes severe and the rough surrounding the green thick and deep. A miss of the 30x27 yard green rewards your risk with a wet ball or a tough recovery.

 

It's not tougher than a 70+ yard shot to the same target.

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by CR McDivot View Post
 

The best layup leaves a wedge from the fairway 70 yards to the center, to a 30 yard wide target. I'll take that rather than 240 carry, one hop and stop any day! :roll:

 

The best layup is a 240-yard shot to an even smaller target, and that doesn't even put you greenside.

 

Here's a 70-yard shot. I didn't even measure to the middle of the green.

 

The fairway there is not even 20 yards wide. It's narrower than the green. And it's still 240+ yards away. Lay back and the fairway shrinks to 17 yards or so. And the water is still there.

 

70 yards, that yellow line.

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by mvmac View Post
 

Still think "going" for the green is the better play. I'd rather have a putt, bunker shot or a 20 yard pitch shot than a 70 yard shot.

 

Uh hmmmmmmm.

 

This isn't a par four.

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