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Golf is a dying. How to make it more popular! - Page 3

post #37 of 94
Quote:
Originally Posted by MS256 View Post
 

 

I thought @jakepalm was just having some fun with the misspelled "ridiculous".


Hmmm. I know plenty of people that have no time for golf because they are working 12 or more hours a day. When I was in my 20s and 30s I almost always worked double shifts and always worked 7 days a week. Not a chance in the world I could have played golf back then.

 

Even my wife has no chance to play golf from May to September because she goes to work at 5:00 in the morning and gets home at 7:30 at night (7 days a week) during those months.

 

Every time I started a new job as an engineer, I worked 12-14 hours a day. Whenever I start a new project, the same thing.

post #38 of 94

I can only speak for myself that I've been very busy the last few years and have played 1/10 of the golf that I did before. Our company was bought by another last year AND I had my entire staff turnover within a few months. Hiring and training all knew folks as well as carrying the IT load pretty much killed my spring and summer. Overall, I think people are working longer hours these days as work demands increase.

post #39 of 94

I don't think golf is dying, I think it's adjusting to the new economy, roles of men in family and changes in business.  When I was a kid my father and his friends went fishing all day on Saturday and Sunday from spring until fall weather permitting.  Also, during those times, parents didn't spoil their kids with expensive clothes, smart phones, etc.  We got the necessities but I was taught that if I wanted nicer things I'd have to work for it.    

 

Today, things are different, dads are more involved in their kids lives, share more responsibility with their wives and most parents seem willing to sacrifice spending money or time for their own enjoyment for their kids.  Not only has the economy affected disposable income, but the changes in parenting philosophy have as well.

 

Changes in tax codes which took away the ability for businesses to expense country club memberships, impact of the internet on business relationships and greater demand of ones time has impacted golf participation as businesses no longer use it as a customer perk like they once did.

 

Golf is not like bowling, which is fairly friendly to newbies.  Golf is more fun when you're good at it and if you're not, it's usually more frustrating than fun unless you're drinking large amounts of alcohol.  It takes a lot of time, effort and practice to get good enough so that you don't embarrass yourself on the course.  Most of my family was into golf before I started playing and now none of them play with the exception of charity scramble events because they don't find it enjoyable due to their poor play and lack of practice time.

post #40 of 94

Maybe to many golf courses were built and the market needed a correction...

 

I'd suggest the golf industry follows closely to the housing market..it crashed a few years back and so did golf. Here in Texas some courses are closing, and they probably should as so many were built in the last 10 years.

 

For the average Joe golf is to expensive and takes to much time, most folks have to play on a weekend when the rates are high and the time commitment is long..much easier to do something else with that $100. Courses need to get creative on getting players back to the game..offer deals on monthly range programs that get a discount for walk play in off hours...once someone is hooked they'll find the money to play.

post #41 of 94
Quote:
Originally Posted by MS256 View Post
 

 

I thought @jakepalm was just having some fun with the misspelled "ridiculous".


Hmmm. I know plenty of people that have no time for golf because they are working 12 or more hours a day. When I was in my 20s and 30s I almost always worked double shifts and always worked 7 days a week. Not a chance in the world I could have played golf back then.

 

Even my wife has no chance to play golf from May to September because she goes to work at 5:00 in the morning and gets home at 7:30 at night (7 days a week) during those months.

 

Sure, and who's decision is that?  It certainly isn't the job's decision.  In fact, several years ago I had a job like that, I was working 60-70 hours a week on a survey crew.  The money was excellent and I was eating it up at first but eventually I realized I had no time to spend it.  I made a change and now I have time for hobbies.  The bottom line is nobody is making you work 12 hours a day, you're obviously prioritizing other things (house/car/family/other hobbies/etc) higher than golf.

post #42 of 94

Build mores shorter courses.  Green fees will be cheaper, and will attract more golfers who can't spend an entire day to golf.  

 

Many new golf courses were built during the last housing bubble.   When the bubble burst, some courses had to be closed.   The expected demand never materialized.   But I don't see golf dying.   Bowling!   Now, that's what I call "dying."  

post #43 of 94
Quote:
Originally Posted by rkim291968 View Post
 

Build mores shorter courses.  Green fees will be cheaper, and will attract more golfers who can't spend an entire day to golf.  

 

Many new golf courses were built during the last housing bubble.   When the bubble burst, some courses had to be closed.   The expected demand never materialized.   But I don't see golf dying.   Bowling!   Now, that's what I call "dying."  

 

Great idea.  Courses are going out of business so let's build more.  Better idea, shorten up existing courses that are struggling to make them cheaper to maintain and faster to play.  Then shorten the clubs and the ball to keep some degree of challenge in those courses.  It's all interconnected, you can't just make one change and expect it to cure the problem.  

 

When the problem is expense and time, not much can really be done.  If 4½ hours is too much, then the odds are 4 hours, or 3:45 is also going to be too much.  On most courses there is already the option of playing just 9 holes without changing anything.  Promote that.

post #44 of 94
Quote:
Originally Posted by Strandly View Post
 

 

Sure, and who's decision is that?  It certainly isn't the job's decision.  In fact, several years ago I had a job like that, I was working 60-70 hours a week on a survey crew.  The money was excellent and I was eating it up at first but eventually I realized I had no time to spend it.  I made a change and now I have time for hobbies.  The bottom line is nobody is making you work 12 hours a day, you're obviously prioritizing other things (house/car/family/other hobbies/etc) higher than golf.

Mostly the people we work for. Usually the plant manager put a notice on the bulletin board that said "12 hours a day until further notice." Simple as that.

 

If you are saying we always have the option of quitting our jobs or not putting in those hours trying to start up or run a business you are right. Nobody is making us work.

 

Now that I am thinking about it a big portion of the weekday regulars at the course don't work at all but are signed up for the government tit. Ay least when they play golf I get some of my tax money back from them.

post #45 of 94

So it seems we agree the issues are time and money.

 

I will add one more.  Hopelessness.

 

Meaning, players are no longer playing the game because they can't get better. They just give up and find something else to do.

 

I don't know of any other sport that has more gimmics for sale promising to make you better than golf. All they do is take even more money from the golfer making the game even more expensive and disappointing. What is worse, is that these gimmics always have some popular golfer telling you that the gimmic works! So, golfers spend a lot of time and money to get better but only experience disappointment instead. After a while, they end up just leaving the game.

 

As for cost and time, I do have a suggestion but doubt any golf course would do it. -- Make the cost of 9 holes half the cost of 18 holes. There would be a lot more players each week it you could play 9 holes that were reasonably priced when compared to 18 holes. There are a lot of weeks, maybe EVERY week, that I would play 9 if I could ride 9 holes without losing my shirt to do it. I suspect I'm not the only one.

post #46 of 94
Is golf really dying? Not where I live it isn't! We have 8 courses within a 6 mile radius, 3 x championship links courses inc Royal Lytham, (British open) and a mix of private and municipal, all of which are busy! As far as I'm concerned, I don't feel a need for an influx of new players, I already have to book early for a desired tee time! And as for 15" holes, football golf, and any other wacky stupid idea, can't see that happening round here, there's more than enough golfers who'll not wanting any of that nonesense!
post #47 of 94
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hardballs View Post

Is golf really dying? Not where I live it isn't! We have 8 courses within a 6 mile radius, 3 x championship links courses inc Royal Lytham, (British open) and a mix of private and municipal, all of which are busy! As far as I'm concerned, I don't feel a need for an influx of new players, I already have to book early for a desired tee time! And as for 15" holes, football golf, and any other wacky stupid idea, can't see that happening round here, there's more than enough golfers who'll not wanting any of that nonesense!

 

Thank goodness someone is still in touch with the game of golf.  I haven't seen any such issues in Colorado either.  Nobody pushing for hack golf, and no shortage of players.

post #48 of 94

There are over 200 courses in Maricopa County, AZ.  Quite a few have failed.  The USGA is overly concerning itself with rules infractions and equipment changes. (outlaw long putters???) The best they can do for a "make golf more popular" campaign is the  "While we're young" placards for speeding up play.  Many of the ideas voiced in this thread are viable and well stated.  Perhaps we need to quit preaching to the choir and let the USGA know our thoughts.  Making 9 holes a more acceptable round would go a long way ("Nine is fine!!" makes a good motto)  Some of the courses looking at closure might do well to consider changing their format to Executive. We can't sit around and wait for another Tiger to float our boat.

post #49 of 94

Golf needs someone like Rickie Fowler to win multiple majors and make it look "cool." For the youngins' again. 

Nah but for real, cost seems to be a huge factor. 

post #50 of 94
Quote:
Originally Posted by boomergolfer View Post
 

So it seems we agree the issues are time and money.

 

I will add one more.  Hopelessness.

 

Meaning, players are no longer playing the game because they can't get better. They just give up and find something else to do.

 

I don't know of any other sport that has more gimmics for sale promising to make you better than golf. All they do is take even more money from the golfer making the game even more expensive and disappointing. What is worse, is that these gimmics always have some popular golfer telling you that the gimmic works! So, golfers spend a lot of time and money to get better but only experience disappointment instead. After a while, they end up just leaving the game.

 

As for cost and time, I do have a suggestion but doubt any golf course would do it. -- Make the cost of 9 holes half the cost of 18 holes. There would be a lot more players each week it you could play 9 holes that were reasonably priced when compared to 18 holes. There are a lot of weeks, maybe EVERY week, that I would play 9 if I could ride 9 holes without losing my shirt to do it. I suspect I'm not the only one.

 

Yeah this is a legit argument imo.  Personally I hate only playing 9 holes because it seems like a poor use of time and money for something that is over so fast but if I had a consistent 2 hour window where I could sneak in 9 without getting punished pricewise I'd seriously consider it.

post #51 of 94
Quote:
Originally Posted by Strandly View Post
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by boomergolfer View Post
 

So it seems we agree the issues are time and money.

 

I will add one more.  Hopelessness.

 

Meaning, players are no longer playing the game because they can't get better. They just give up and find something else to do.

 

I don't know of any other sport that has more gimmics for sale promising to make you better than golf. All they do is take even more money from the golfer making the game even more expensive and disappointing. What is worse, is that these gimmics always have some popular golfer telling you that the gimmic works! So, golfers spend a lot of time and money to get better but only experience disappointment instead. After a while, they end up just leaving the game.

 

As for cost and time, I do have a suggestion but doubt any golf course would do it. -- Make the cost of 9 holes half the cost of 18 holes. There would be a lot more players each week it you could play 9 holes that were reasonably priced when compared to 18 holes. There are a lot of weeks, maybe EVERY week, that I would play 9 if I could ride 9 holes without losing my shirt to do it. I suspect I'm not the only one.

 

Yeah this is a legit argument imo.  Personally I hate only playing 9 holes because it seems like a poor use of time and money for something that is over so fast but if I had a consistent 2 hour window where I could sneak in 9 without getting punished pricewise I'd seriously consider it.

 

I think of it like this - you aren't getting gouged for playing 9 holes, you are getting a break for playing 18.  :smartass:

post #52 of 94
I agree with @boomergolfer as well. From a golf course perspective you still have to invest the same infrastructure $$$ wether you play 9 or 18 ... So you have to try and recoup some $$ with the first 9 holes ... Most courses will allow you to play the front or back nine ... So in a way the second is not that much more cost wise for them ... I would think.
post #53 of 94
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeremie Boop View Post
 

Wait, so there wasn't a large increase in players of golf when Tiger first came on the scene and gained widespread notoriety? Funny, because I was pretty sure a lot of parents got into golf as well as getting their kids into golf thinking it they may have the next phenom. I could have mistaken how much of an impact that was on the numbers of people golfing though. I know for a fact that there was a pretty large increase in kids taking up golf during that time in my area and parents along with them. Could have been something that didn't repeat everywhere though.

 

Jeremie, first anyone on this site is a golfer, a passioned one at that.

There was a tremendous amount  of hype, news of what would happen with Mr Woods, once he turned pro, most of which never ever materialized.

through out TW career, his legacy will be that he grew TV awareness, the red Nike shirt on Sundays & prize money. What will not be his legacy will be growth in the youth, minorities, average Joes and Janes picking up clubs or even club/ball sales.

 

If you consider Mr. Woods came on in 1997 there was some initial increase of "participation", (1.5 million + ) but many who did pick up the club have dropped out soon after or elected to do something else since that time.

 

But overall since that time the number of participation has slowly and surely been dropping. Keep in mind and this may sound morbid, but we can all agree that there  has always been an older crowd playing, each year these people die or become unable to play. So when you see a kid begin swinging a club, there are a few more on the back end that are not.  Again I am not blaming Mr. Woods, simple stating data available within the golf industry. Rounds are down , New players are down- all demographics are down each and every year. The only bright side is their are more college educated, middle age and older women playing now.

 

Right now for every new course opening there are 20 that are closing- not resold, but closing.

 

Last year 2013 for example this country experienced the most "golf days" in over a decade, the number of golf days were up almost 15%, no serious storms, great fall weather, and an early spring start for almost all areas of the country, yet despite the spike in the # of golf days, golf rounds were down almost 12%, golfers were down 10% and the number of "new" golfers ( defined as anyone playing 4 rounds in 6 months last year and has only played <2 years) was down over 20%.The economy has been tanking for 6 years now. The economy contrary to what may be reported is not growing or improving.

 

This not merely a market correction or simply blamed on the economy- this trend has been going on since the late 90s and early 2000s. I am  not saying the sky is falling there are still 18-20 million playing- down from almost 28 million.  

post #54 of 94
Quote:
Originally Posted by Spitfisher View Post

Jeremie, first anyone on this site is a golfer, a passioned one at that.
There was a tremendous amount  of hype, news of what would happen with Mr Woods, once he turned pro, most of which never ever materialized.
through out TW career

The trouble is you can't prove golf wouldn't be worse off without Tiger. It could be true that without Tiger things could be much much worse.

My daughter played against a kid from Michigan yesterday. She was black. She started playing because her dad started playing. He started because of Tiger.
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