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2014 U.S. Opens (Plural!) at Pinehurst #2 Discussion Thread - Page 4

post #55 of 1034

Since I can't go, I'll let Twitter help me virtually experience it:

 

 

post #56 of 1034

http://golfweek.com/news/2014/jun/07/us-open-pinehurst-2014-DQ-jason-millard-memphis/

 

Quote:

Millard, who shot a pair of 68s to advance out of the Memphis qualifier June 2, was playing his third shot on the 18th hole at Colonial Country Club’s North Course, his 27th hole, when he grounded his club in a bunker.

“I didn’t see anything for sure but I felt something and I saw a small indentation," said Millard, a two-time All-American at Middle Tennessee State. "It happened so fast, I really don’t know 100 percent but deep down, I believe I did. I couldn’t find peace about it. For five days, I practiced and I couldn’t get it off my mind.

 

People will invariably say this is a shining example of what sets golf apart, and they're right to a certain degree, but I can't help but wonder in these kinds of situations… what took the guy so long?

 

June 2 was Monday. He DQed himself on Saturday. He saw a small indentation and felt something.  It's not something that requires five days of thought.

post #57 of 1034
Quote:
Originally Posted by iacas View Post
 

http://golfweek.com/news/2014/jun/07/us-open-pinehurst-2014-DQ-jason-millard-memphis/

 

 

People will invariably say this is a shining example of what sets golf apart, and they're right to a certain degree, but I can't help but wonder in these kinds of situations… what took the guy so long?

 

June 2 was Monday. He DQed himself on Saturday. He saw a small indentation and felt something.  It's not something that requires five days of thought.

I may be in the minority here, but goddamnit "a small indentation and felt something." does not = cheating or effecting the round in any way in my personal opinion. Dude needed to just get over it. The only thing I can imagine is that he tried to get over it and couldn't...it just weighed in on his mind too heavily. Some people take 5 mins to apologize for something, some people take a month, some people never do. 

post #58 of 1034
Quote:
Originally Posted by Crim View Post
 

I may be in the minority here, but goddamnit "a small indentation and felt something." does not = cheating or effecting the round in any way in my personal opinion. Dude needed to just get over it. The only thing I can imagine is that he tried to get over it and couldn't...it just weighed in on his mind too heavily. Some people take 5 mins to apologize for something, some people take a month, some people never do. 

 

It's against the rules, and you can't begin to try to define "how much of an indentation is enough to affect play."

 

Dude should not have just gotten over it - he should have called it out immediately and dealt with it right away. That he DQed himself five days later is a small saving grace, but I still don't know what took five days.

post #59 of 1034
The US Open web page gives a break down of who is playing and who was playing in the qualifiers... Their accomplishments ect. Is just amazing! I enjoy following golf and I have had my favorites over the years. (Duval, Norman, Payne,) I cant believe the level they have to play at to be where they are professionally. The US is awesome because a no namer per say can go from an essential zero to hero in one weekend and then have 10yrs worth of opportunities to continue to excell in the sport. I think with Mickelson dealing with his trade stuff?, he isnt going to be there mentally. My guess its open to the best guys paired together that will have their own shootout for the win.
post #60 of 1034

Getting back on the topic of contenders this week-

 

I really think the number of contenders is a good bit less than what most people are handicapping. Yes the course isn't punitive off the tee but the combination of distance, high ball flight, and precision around the greens that will be required leaves at most 10 guys with a legitimate chance to win this week- and it's the usual suspects. I don't think this will be a repeat of 2005 when a nobody comes out of nowhere to win. Rory, Scott, and Bubba are the clear choices to me and I'll throw Phil in their camp for obvious reasons despite his play this year. I'll put Segio and DJ in the next contender bucket.  I'd like to put Spieth in with them as well and would love to see him make a run, but I just don't know if he has the distance or ball flight to get it done here.

post #61 of 1034
Quote:
Originally Posted by iacas View Post
 

 

It's against the rules, and you can't begin to try to define "how much of an indentation is enough to affect play."

 

Dude should not have just gotten over it - he should have called it out immediately and dealt with it right away. That he DQed himself five days later is a small saving grace, but I still don't know what took five days.

He stated that when it happened, he wasn't 100% sure it did. At that point do you always call foul on yourself? I'd be surprised if *how much did it affect play* doesn't go through a golfer's mind in that situation...at least when you aren't sure I mean. 

Maybe pros never think about that, i dunno. 

post #62 of 1034

Let me just go ahead and call it right here.

Rory wins!

Schwartzel comes in 2nd

A few guys ties 3rd

post #63 of 1034
Quote:
Originally Posted by Crim View Post
 

He stated that when it happened, he wasn't 100% sure it did. At that point do you always call foul on yourself? I'd be surprised if *how much did it affect play* doesn't go through a golfer's mind in that situation...at least when you aren't sure I mean. 

 

If that goes through a player's mind, he's a scoundrel and a dishonest person looking to rationalize things.

 

If I see my ball move or I see my club make an indentation in the sand, I'm calling a penalty on myself immediately. Heck, if someone else says my ball moved or I made an indentation in the sand, and I have no reason to doubt the accuracy of their testimony (i.e. I'm not fully convinced they were seeing things), I'll also call a penalty on myself.

 

It doesn't take five days to decide this kind of thing, and the amount of praise he deserves for being "honest" should be tempered by the fact that it took him five days.

 

Plus, presumably if he had not qualified, someone else would have from his site. That person might be sitting at home instead of playing at Pinehurst this week.

post #64 of 1034
Quote:
Originally Posted by iacas View Post
 

 

If that goes through a player's mind, he's a scoundrel and a dishonest person looking to rationalize things.

 

If I see my ball move or I see my club make an indentation in the sand, I'm calling a penalty on myself immediately. Heck, if someone else says my ball moved or I made an indentation in the sand, and I have no reason to doubt the accuracy of their testimony (i.e. I'm not fully convinced they were seeing things), I'll also call a penalty on myself.

 

It doesn't take five days to decide this kind of thing, and the amount of praise he deserves for being "honest" should be tempered by the fact that it took him five days.

 

Plus, presumably if he had not qualified, someone else would have from his site. That person might be sitting at home instead of playing at Pinehurst this week.

He didn't see anything though, he felt something and saw a small indentation. At that point should you always call penalty even if you aren't 100% sure? Depending on the *feel and indentation*, I suppose one might not call a penalty on themselves. I wouldn't look at them as a scoundrel.  

post #65 of 1034
Quote:
Originally Posted by Crim View Post
 

He didn't see anything though, he felt something and saw a small indentation. At that point should you always call penalty even if you aren't 100% sure? Depending on the *feel and indentation*, I suppose one might not call a penalty on themselves. I wouldn't look at them as a scoundrel.

I get where you're coming from, and I think this sort of reasoning might be OK when you are playing a casual round by yourself but in ANY sort of competition, it's one of the most basic and easy to follow rules.  There is no grey area.

 

And I agree with Erik's skepticism here.  What happened over the course of those 5 days that made him realize something he didn't know all along??  There were no cameras there, there was nobody else telling him they saw what happened.

 

Sounds to me like he was trying to rationalize what he knew had happened (I'd NOT go so far as to call him a scoundrel though) and finally realized he couldn't do it.  He certainly did the right thing, but the fact that it took him 5 days to do so only means that the little devil on his left shoulder was almost more persuasive then the angel on his right shoulder for a short time.

post #66 of 1034
Quote:
Originally Posted by jdw1989 View Post
 

Hi guys, new to the forum and really looking forward to the US Open this week, always a good tournament and a true test for players. If you can't hit the fairways you're going to struggle in any US Open and it's also refreshing watching a tournament where the winning score is pretty high, gets so boring watching people making birdie after birdie after birdie, at a US Open it's more about making sure you save your pars than making sure you're birdieing every hole. I want to see players struggle and in a US open players are pushed to their absolute limits.

 

These are my picks:

 

1) Stenson - Really fancy him for a major this year and when he's at his best he's not only very straight off the tee but he's also long and incredibly accurate with his irons. He played well in the Scandinavian masters in his last start and I expect him to go close.

 

2) Mcdowell - Very straight off the tee, good around the greens and a great putter, no surprise he's won a US Open before and played well in a few others, expect him to go close.

 

3) Furyk - Like Mcdowell he's very straight off the tee, his iron play is incredibly accurate when he's on form, if anything lets him down it's his putting and the fact he's choked when in some good positions in the last few years. It would be nice to see him put one away though.

 

4) Z. Johnson - Not much different to the reasons I've chosen Mcdowell, pretty straight off the tee, good iron play but an incredibly good putter and if he's on form there's no doubt he'll be in with a chance on the final day for me.

 

My 5th pick is my outsider of the bunch, although I expect he'll be tipped by alot of people to have a good week. It's Billy Horschel, one of the straightest off the tee on tour and high up on the greens in regulation stats, he's a streaky putter but there's no doubt if he can get it going he's a contender for a tough US open which relies heavily on good stats in the 2 areas mentioned above. Also he's coming off a good week at the St Judes classic.

 

Welcome to the forum. Good picks. One thing I will almost gaurantee is the winner won't be someone coming in on bad form, because if you're not playing well coming in, Pinehurst is not the place to re-discover your game. Stenson and Furyk are two guys coming in with a lot of confidence. Not sure about G-Mac and Zach. Both started well last week but faded over the weekend.

 

Some sleeper names coming in I with the best form and have been really consistent of late are Brendon Todd and Joost Luiten. Those are my two "out of nowhere" picks that would shock the world but not shock me as much. They both are coming in with good consistent play. I picked Matt Kuchar, though, in the contest so I'm sticking with him. Put a few bucks in Vegas on Phil just because I really want to see him win more than anything.

post #67 of 1034
Quote:
Originally Posted by Golfingdad View Post
 

I get where you're coming from, and I think this sort of reasoning might be OK when you are playing a casual round by yourself but in ANY sort of competition, it's one of the most basic and easy to follow rules.  There is no grey area.

 

Understandable. I'm still getting used to golf rulings. 

I'm very curious as to how many players *feel something* and don't penalize themselves. Obviously you'll never get an honest answer. But it has to happen in tournament play, maybe not often, but on occasion. 

post #68 of 1034
Quote:
Originally Posted by Crim View Post
 

I'm very curious as to how many players *feel something* and don't penalize themselves. Obviously you'll never get an honest answer. But it has to happen in tournament play, maybe not often, but on occasion.

Oh, I would totally agree with this.  We see what happens in all of the other sports.  No matter how much people in here might want to disagree, there is not extra "integrity" gene that all golfers are born with.

post #69 of 1034
Quote:
Originally Posted by Golfingdad View Post
 

Oh, I would totally agree with this.  We see what happens in all of the other sports.  No matter how much people in here might want to disagree, there is not extra "integrity" gene that all golfers are born with.

 

No, but we're almost all born with "the peer pressure gene," if you know what I mean…

 

In other sports peer pressure encourages you to skirt the rules, and in golf, very nearly the opposite.

post #70 of 1034
Quote:
Originally Posted by iacas View Post

 

In other sports peer pressure encourages you to skirt the rules, and in golf, very nearly the opposite.

That's probably why my mindset is so different. I played almost every other sport but golf growing up. An oscillation to me is like meh, no big deal. I wonder if a pro like Graham DeLaet is more apt to not call a penalty on himself because he also grew up playing hockey. :-P 

post #71 of 1034
Quote:
Originally Posted by Crim View Post
 

That's probably why my mindset is so different. I played almost every other sport but golf growing up. An oscillation to me is like meh, no big deal. I wonder if a pro like Graham DeLaet is more apt to not call a penalty on himself because he also grew up playing hockey. :-P 

 

I played every other sport too.

 

appreciate that golf is different in this sense. It's one way of showing respect to the game and those who play it.

post #72 of 1034
Quote:
Originally Posted by iacas View Post
 

 

I played every other sport too.

 

appreciate that golf is different in this sense. It's one way of showing respect to the game and those who play it.

Fair enough. Gentleman's game!

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