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Playing the right tees

post #1 of 41
Thread Starter 
Please help me settle a discussion. My dad is 72yr old with a 15-16 index. He has been pressured by club members to back up a set of tees, primarily because he's won a few events.

There are 5 sets of tees and he used to play the 2nd set and now he's playing the middle tees. Of the 10 par 4s on the course he can only hit 5/10 in regulation and those that he can hit in regulation usually require driver hybrid.

I tell him he's nuts and should move back up. It's my opinion you should be able to hit every green in regulation if you are playing the correct tees. I take it further to suggest you should average driver 7i, thus some holes are driver wedge yet others might be driver 3 wood but at the end of the day you've averaged 7i out.

Am I nuts to think this? Is there an article in print that suggests how you should choose a tee? Thanks in advance.
post #2 of 41

Usually on the course's score card they list the different tees that go with a given handicap. If not on the score card the starter should know which tee a golfer should use, based on the golfer's handicap. If there is no starter to ask, the counter guy who takes the golfer's should know. Tournament directors should also know which tees a golfer should be using based on their handicap. All that said, on some courses the different tees are so close together, it does not matter which tee box is used. 

post #3 of 41

This is not nuts. If he needs a Driver/hybrid for only 1 or 2 holes it makes sense to stay on his current ones. I also feel that you generally need to use Driver and the 150 club to be considered playing the correct tees. I prefer Driver and wedge.

 

It's not like I'm hitting greens all the time, but it saves a lot of time being right at the green instead of being behind it all the time.

post #4 of 41
If a 30 year old 15 hcp could only reach half of the par-4's in regulation, and those only with a hybrid, I'd tell him he's playing tees too far back. You're exactly right.

Now, those that are playing back should be getting an additional handicap adjustment based on the difference in the course ratings between the two sets of tees.... If that adjustment hasn't been made, your father is receiving an unfair advantage.

But trying to move a 72 year old back? That's just wrong!
post #5 of 41
Yeah he's too far back. I don't mind a few long approach shots but 13/14 holes of it would be tough. Which means the par 3's are probably long for him too.
post #6 of 41
When I look at a new course, I ignore the par-5's and par-3's. I look at the par-4's. If there are more than 2 that would require more than driver/5-iron, the tees are too long. For me, that means no more than 2 par-4's over 425ish.

That usually keeps me south of 6700 yards or so....
post #7 of 41
Quote:
Originally Posted by David in FL View Post

When I look at a new course, I ignore the par-5's and par-3's. I look at the par-4's. If there are more than 2 that would require more than driver/5-iron, the tees are too long. For me, that means no more than 2 par-4's over 425ish.

That usually keeps me south of 6700 yards or so....

That is a good system. We have such a mish-mash of courses here rating is my only consideration. Anything below 70 is usually sub 6500 yards. The longer courses usually have 5-6 tees, some are combo, so it gets a little complicated choosing.
post #8 of 41

I normally play the middle tees. I figure if I can't par a course on these tees there's no need to move back.

 

I sort of get annoyed playing behind players who can't break 90 playing from the long tees. :blink:

post #9 of 41
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave2512 View Post

That is a good system. We have such a mish-mash of courses here rating is my only consideration. Anything below 70 is usually sub 6500 yards. The longer courses usually have 5-6 tees, some are combo, so it gets a little complicated choosing.


Course rating really doesn't tell the whole story. I play a set of tees on a a par 73 course with 5 par-5's, a CR of 73.7 and 6800 yards that is fine for me, while a par 70 course with a CR of 71.9 at 6500 yards is a struggle because the length lies in the par-4's.

It's all about where the length comes, not the overall length or the CR. I'm not much more likely to bogey a 575 yard par-5 than I am a 500 yard par-5. But I'm a lot more likely to bogey a 440 yard par-4 than a 385 yard par-4. Even though the difference in yardage is greater between the 2 par-5's than the par-4's. The difference lies in hitting something close to a 200 yard approach into the long par-4 vs a 135ish approach into the long par-5.

Look at those par-4's...that'll tell most people what tees to play. And FWIW, it makes no difference what color the damn tees are! a2_wink.gif
post #10 of 41
Quote:
Originally Posted by boomergolfer View Post
 

I normally play the middle tees. I figure if I can't par a course on these tees there's no need to move back.

 

I sort of get annoyed playing behind players who can't break 90 playing from the long tees. :blink:


It is a pace of play issue. This is the main reason I wait so long for so many people.

post #11 of 41

In Golf Digest Judy Rankin wrote: "If you can't hit a 7-iron into some par 4s, you're playing the wrong tees."   ( http://www.golfdigest.com/magazine/myshot_gd0409 )   I seem to recall her being even more direct during a tour event broadcast where she said that half of your par 4 second shots should be 7 iron or less or you are playing the wrong tees.

 

Barney Adams (age 72) plays with friends who choose tees that require them to hit driver, hybrid on most par 4s. Here is the basic idea from his analysis: "Adams came up with a system he calls Tour Length. He calculated that for a pro to hit the same clubs on approaches as an amateur averaging 230-yard drives on a 6,700-yard course, the pro's course would have to measure at least 8,100 yards. Conversely, for the 230-yard driver to hit the same clubs into greens as the pro would on a 7,300-yard layout, the amateur would have to play at no more than 6,200 yards. By Adams' calculation, this means the amateur who drives the ball 200 yards (closer to what the average golfer achieves) should be playing courses measuring about 6,000 yards. Many women, routinely forced to play tees in the 5,600-yard range despite hitting drives of about 140 yards, should be playing from approximately 4,600 yards."    ( http://www.golfdigest.com/golf-courses/2011-05/golf-barney-adams-forward-tees )  

 

I hope this helps.

 

Steven

post #12 of 41

Going driver-hybrid into a majority of the par 4's you can reach, and then not being able to reach half of them, is ridiculous. While I do believe that handicap adjustment based off course ratings and slope on a course are necessary, you shouldn't be forced to play golf like that. It takes a lot of the fun out of it.

post #13 of 41
CR is everything in CO due to the effective length factor for altitude. If the course is short the whole course plays short. A 440 yd par 4 is driver 7i here, uphill.

Quote:
Originally Posted by David in FL View Post

Course rating really doesn't tell the whole story. I play a set of tees on a a par 73 course with 5 par-5's, a CR of 73.7 and 6800 yards that is fine for me, while a par 70 course with a CR of 71.9 at 6500 yards is a struggle because the length lies in the par-4's.

It's all about where the length comes, not the overall length or the CR. I'm not much more likely to bogey a 575 yard par-5 than I am a 500 yard par-5. But I'm a lot more likely to bogey a 440 yard par-4 than a 385 yard par-4. Even though the difference in yardage is greater between the 2 par-5's than the par-4's. The difference lies in hitting something close to a 200 yard approach into the long par-4 vs a 135ish approach into the long par-5.

Look at those par-4's...that'll tell most people what tees to play. And FWIW, it makes no difference what color the damn tees are! a2_wink.gif
post #14 of 41
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave2512 View Post

CR is everything in CO due to the effective length factor for altitude. If the course is short the whole course plays short. A 440 yd par 4 is driver 7i here, uphill.
The basis of relative length remains the same. If you're hitting more than 5-iron into more than one or two par-4's you're playing tees tat are too long for you. Those par-4's may be 425 yards, or they may be 475 yards.
post #15 of 41
Quote:
Originally Posted by flintcreek6412 View Post

Please help me settle a discussion. My dad is 72yr old with a 15-16 index. He has been pressured by club members to back up a set of tees, primarily because he's won a few events.

There are 5 sets of tees and he used to play the 2nd set and now he's playing the middle tees. Of the 10 par 4s on the course he can only hit 5/10 in regulation and those that he can hit in regulation usually require driver hybrid.

I tell him he's nuts and should move back up. It's my opinion you should be able to hit every green in regulation if you are playing the correct tees. I take it further to suggest you should average driver 7i, thus some holes are driver wedge yet others might be driver 3 wood but at the end of the day you've averaged 7i out.

Am I nuts to think this? Is there an article in print that suggests how you should choose a tee? Thanks in advance.

Okay we have a members game where we let the 70+ guys play one set of tees forward but they will also lose 1 or 2 strokes from their hdcp also but it still winds up being fair in the end because they usually don't lose any strokes by the courses hdcp. I asked if I could do it once joking of course and got no where.;-)

post #16 of 41

In our choose up games we just assign certain players as "short tee guys" and it doesn't always have anything to do with age.

 

One of the captains is 67 years old and there's not a chance in Hell we are letting him play from the up tees. He would kill us from there. 

 

Another guy is around 45 years old and he's always a short tee guy and he's as happy as a lark playing from the short tees.

 

A couple of other short tee guys are a few years younger than I am.

 

One day I went down to my old club to play in their game and that day only seniors were there. One of them told me to just come up and play from their tees. I told him that wouldn't be right but they all insisted so I told them I wouldn't hit anything with a driver.

 

Now, make no mistake, I'm not worth a crap at golf, but from the senior tees (???) and without having to hit my nemesis driver (???) it was no contest. Somewhere on the back nine one of them looked at me and said "Why don't you hit that driver so the rest of us have a chance?"

 

Since we were all fairly equal players as long as I was hitting from the back and they were hitting from the front I don't think they really knew how much difference it would make when I played from the front tees...But they never made that offer again.

post #17 of 41

I just use whatever tees I am feeling that day. At my favorite local course I usually end up on the white tees, and that has given me a decent level of difficulty but not too much that I can barely get low scores.

post #18 of 41
Quote:
Originally Posted by flopster View Post

Okay we have a members game where we let the 70+ guys play one set of tees forward but they will also lose 1 or 2 strokes from their hdcp also but it still winds up being fair in the end because they usually don't lose any strokes by the courses hdcp. I asked if I could do it once joking of course and got no where.a2_wink.gif

I probably would have taken you up on it.

You'll usually lose a stroke on course hcp, and then have to give back another 2 or so on the difference in CR's. Most people won't necessarily score 3 full strokes better just by moving up on set of tees.
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