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driver, how to not-hit down on the ball?

post #1 of 18
Thread Starter 
I was doing some flightscope testing and it was revealed that I hit about -4.5deg down with driver.

The data is clear Im hitting down too much with driver. Cause seems to be unknown sadly as of yet.

Id like to get to about 0deg hit with driver. Or possibly about +2deg upward.

I was hitting cobra biocell driver. My usual ball position is about just barely inside the left heel line. Teeing somewhat up - ball midpoint is slightly above the top of the clubface.

If you dont have good ideas for driver drills, I could use some shortgame exercises at the practice range, some exciting or fun exercises?

We dont have dedicated shortgame area with real grass. We only got hitting mats and fake turf at the driving range. But, atleast we got some small marker flags that we can aim towards.

At my club range -which is longer drive away- we have a real grass shortgame area which is fun definitely!
post #2 of 18

Check out this thread

 

 Hitting Up or Down with the Driver in an Inline Pattern 

 

 

And this drill

 

post #3 of 18

Definitely a drill I will try since I look like the guy on the left. 

 

I just want to know what is preferable for consistent shots?

 

Hitting down with the driver (I always assumed since you're taking loft off it will have a more penetrating flight)

 

OR

 

Hitting up with the driver, I know people put the ball in line with their front heel or toe but can this not cause flipping or casting in the long run?

post #4 of 18
I've been really working on trying to hit up with mr driver but I'm hitting a lot of pulls. Hard to get used to having the ball that far forward. Hey man, that video drill is exactly like one Trackman Maestro made a couple years ago!
post #5 of 18
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hwrehder View Post
 

Definitely a drill I will try since I look like the guy on the left. 

 

I just want to know what is preferable for consistent shots?

 

Hitting down with the driver (I always assumed since you're taking loft off it will have a more penetrating flight)

 

A penetrating flight will result in shorter drives. To utilize today's technology you need to launch it high with less spin, hitting up aids in that.

 Evolution of High Launch and Low Spin 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hwrehder View Post
 

 

Hitting up with the driver, I know people put the ball in line with their front heel or toe but can this not cause flipping or casting in the long run?

 

 

Why? Yes the lead arm and shaft will line up sooner than with an iron, for a couple reason, but unless you have a "flip" already it's not going to cause one.

post #6 of 18
Thread Starter 

I was hitting low penetrating drives with that driver... But I was pretty proud of myself, that a high capper like me performed so well in front of the other people at the demo practice range, in front of manufacturer representatives and customers. :-)

 

according to flightscope

 

cobra biocell

driver loft 11.5deg

 

dynamic loft 7deg

 

AoA -4.5deg

 

This must be true, because dynamic loft is only 7deg?  7deg -11.5deg = -4.5deg

 

smash factor 1.48

 

carry distance 230yards

 

roll distance 270 yards (LOL, I would definitely like more carry distance -instead of roll, even though the end result is still good on firm fairways)

post #7 of 18
Quote:
Originally Posted by late347 View Post
 

cobra biocell

driver loft 11.5deg

 

dynamic loft 7deg

 

AoA -4.5deg

 

This must be true, because dynamic loft is only 7deg?  7deg -11.5deg = -4.5deg

 

It doesn't work that way, no. The shaft flexes, the location where you hit it on the face matters, etc.

post #8 of 18
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by iacas View Post
 

 

It doesn't work that way, no. The shaft flexes, the location where you hit it on the face matters, etc.


well the smash factor is relatively high 1.48 (verified)... I am assuming that the only way high smash factor occurs is when centre strike occurs...?

 

shaft was stock cobra stiff version. Driver was cobra biocell. Balls used were 90% effective range balls, according to cobra rep who operated the flightscope.

 

dynamic loft is 7deg (verified)...

 

carry distance was 230 yard (verified)

 

roll distance was 270 yard (verified)

 

So, therefore, what other option would there  be except for negative Angle of attack?

post #9 of 18
Quote:
Originally Posted by late347 View Post
 


well the smash factor is relatively high 1.48 (verified)... I am assuming that the only way high smash factor occurs is when centre strike occurs...?

 

shaft was stock cobra stiff version. Driver was cobra biocell. Balls used were 90% effective range balls, according to cobra rep who operated the flightscope.

 

dynamic loft is 7deg (verified)...

 

carry distance was 230 yard (verified)

 

roll distance was 270 yard (verified)

 

So, therefore, what other option would there  be except for negative Angle of attack?

 

You're not understanding what I'm saying.

 

First, dynamic loft is calculated. Carry distance is measured, but roll is calculated as well (it's almost never good to choose firm fairways).

 

AoA is measured, too, so don't rely on weird subtraction like you did to figure out your AoA. The FlightScope should have told you what it measured for your AoA.

 

You probably did have a negative AoA, but how MUCH it is remains unknown.

post #10 of 18
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by iacas View Post
 

 

You're not understanding what I'm saying.

 

First, dynamic loft is calculated. Carry distance is measured, but roll is calculated as well (it's almost never good to choose firm fairways).

 

AoA is measured, too, so don't rely on weird subtraction like you did to figure out your AoA. The FlightScope should have told you what it measured for your AoA.

 

You probably did have a negative AoA, but how MUCH it is remains unknown.

 

 

well you could calculate angle of attack from equation. IF you know spin loft and launch angle you can calculate the angle of attack, together with all the other data that I collected

 

spin rpm was really high on that drive shot as I recall... over 3000rpm surely

 

But.... I forgot note on paper the spin loft and launch angle...

 

Have to do some more trackman / flighscope training in the future some other time then:doh: 

post #11 of 18
Dude what was your launch angle with that swing? Had to be a worm burner... hahaha with such little loft and hitting down that much. Holy Moses!!!!
post #12 of 18
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wangus94 View Post

Dude what was your launch angle with that swing? Had to be a worm burner... hahaha with such little loft and hitting down that much. Holy Moses!!!!

Yea, it was a worm burner indeed haha (quite low ball becuz it carried only 230yards) :pound:

 

but smash factor was quite good and presumably clubhead speed was about 105mph which is about averge for me.

 

At least it rolled far, the practice range was very firm grass and the ball seemd to roll forever... So much roll... it was unbelievable

 

even the cobra rep had to increase the loft on the damn  driver up to 11.5deg

 

All this points out to me that I must book for lessons on the driver club from an instructor.

:dance:

post #13 of 18
Yea man no doubt... You should find one of these Trackman guys if you can. I was skeptical at first about all those numbers but this stuff is legit! I went to see this coach Cary Schoen and he's really getting me there quick!
post #14 of 18
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wangus94 View Post

Yea man no doubt... You should find one of these Trackman guys if you can. I was skeptical at first about all those numbers but this stuff is legit! I went to see this coach Cary Schoen and he's really getting me there quick!

ON THE OTHER hand...

 

That good drive of mine 230carry + tons of roll (out to 270)

 

That was achieved with 90% balls, according to cobra rep (presumably they had tested the range balls vs real balls to come up with the figure)

 

So, 230 is 90%

 

1% is 230/ 90 = 2,555 yards

 

2,555 x 100 is about 255 yards carry with real balls.

 

swing speed ought to be about 104-105

 

smash factor 1.48

post #15 of 18
Quote:
Originally Posted by late347 View Post
 

ON THE OTHER hand...

 

That good drive of mine 230carry + tons of roll (out to 270)

 

That was achieved with 90% balls, according to cobra rep (presumably they had tested the range balls vs real balls to come up with the figure)

 

So, 230 is 90%

 

1% is 230/ 90 = 2,555 yards

 

2,555 x 100 is about 255 yards carry with real balls.

 

swing speed ought to be about 104-105

 

smash factor 1.48

 

They probably normalized the results, so you were getting what a normal ball would have done.

post #16 of 18
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wangus94 View Post

Yea man no doubt... You should find one of these Trackman guys if you can. I was skeptical at first about all those numbers but this stuff is legit! I went to see this coach Cary Schoen and he's really getting me there quick!

 



Cary Schoen? Again? LOL

SMH!!!!
post #17 of 18
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by iacas View Post
 

 

They probably normalized the results, so you were getting what a normal ball would have done.

sadly this seems more likely... :cry:

post #18 of 18
Quote:
Originally Posted by late347 View Post

I was hitting low penetrating drives with that driver... But I was pretty proud of myself, that a high capper like me performed so well in front of the other people at the demo practice range, in front of manufacturer representatives and customers. a1_smile.gif

according to flightscope

cobra biocell
driver loft 11.5deg

AoA -4.5deg


So, the changes I made to get rid of my -6.5 degree AoA were to setup the ball further up in my stance, tee up a little higher and increase my reverse K. I ended up with 2 degrees up. 3000 rpm is not that bad, maybe just not that optimal for distance.

The reverse K thing is what my coaches were telling me to do, but everyone said my setup is too low and there is no reason to setup that low, etc, etc. Now that I am back to the lower position, everything is working better. As an aside, my irons are still not flat enough for this stance, so that's changing this week.

Tee up more, move the ball to the inside of your lead foot and do more reverse K. Seems to work for me at least.
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