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My Secret to pace of play! - Page 3

post #37 of 89
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hardballs View Post

I would think a POP is a max speed! And if your over it, then someone is out there causing delays!

Minimum speed yields maximum time.  I meant I would assume that most all would agree that the recommended POP is a maximum amount of time it should require a foursome to play 18 holes.  And like @Maddog10 said, hopefully nobody is out there "jacking around" to drag it out to the POP recommendation (if people are behind them).  That would include people talking on cell phones when they could be hitting.

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hardballs View Post

Never seen a sign relating to a "POP"
Not sure if the courses I play even have a "POP"

They don't all have them, but many do.  One of the courses I play, for example, has a line at the bottom of the cart GPS that constantly shows you where you are in relation to the pace recommendation.  It says "10 minutes behind pace" or "2 minutes ahead of pace" , etc.

 

Others might just tell you on the scorecard that they expect you to finish in under 4:15.

 

Still others will have a row on the scorecard that lists the time (cumulative) for each hole.  Looks something like:

 

  1      2       3      4      5       6       7       8       9

:12    :24   :40   :52   1:05  1:19  1:32  1:46  2:00

post #38 of 89

My guess is few look at POP hole to hole. Most holes are in the 8-15 minute range and people often exceed that. A golf swing takes seconds. If people are using more than the published POP to complete a hole they are doing more than golfing. Usually it's looking for balls.

post #39 of 89

I always figured POP is more of a guideline than a hard and fast rule. There are days where you have a course jammed and there's nothing you can do about it. Other times, the course is empty and you blow those times away.

 

The few times I've played a course with it listed, I've checked where we stood after 5 holes and then after 13. We're usually pretty good, but once I had to tell my guys to pick up the pace a bit. We did and got out in good time. 

post #40 of 89

Even if the course is jammed a foursome should be able to complete a hole in the maximum time. On holes where people keep balls in play holes can easily be completed in less time.

post #41 of 89
Quote:
Originally Posted by Maddog10 View Post
 

I agree with johnclayton, in theory. If you are playing (as a foursome) within the parameters set my the course in terms of pace of play, then you are fine by me. If you are a twosome, I think it's only fair that you should play in less than the required pace of play and not jack around so that you drag it out to the POP requirement, but I think that's obvious.

 

The key to me is to just be mindful and courteous to the other groups on the course. I don't talk on the phone at the course, but it's because I don't like to, not because I think it's wrong. I'll usually answer and tell them that I'm golfing and will have to call them later. If it's my wife, she knows to text me and I will respond when I can. I do think it's wrong to sit and talk on the phone if a group is currently waiting on you, even if you are still going to make it within the POP limits. If you need to take the call and you think it may take a few minutes, let the group play through.

 

Like I said, just be respectful of the other groups and I think you will find the whole process works pretty smoothly. Like johnclayton, I do not enjoy a rushed round. In fact, I probably enjoy it less than a marathon round. As with most people, I will always offer to let faster groups play through given that there is room for them in front of us. I don't know their plans for the day, they may have a kid's baseball game to get to, or an anniversary dinner with their wife. I have no idea, but if they are in that big of a hurry and I'm not, come on through. It makes the day more enjoyable for both of us. But if the course is backed up and every group is waiting, don't sit back there and huff and puff or hit into our group because you are impatient. Nobody is going anywhere fast, so you might as well just enjoy the day.

I agree. I plan 18 holes as an all day affair. I get to the course around 10 or 11, ask for a tee time an hour out so I can get time on the range, and in the summer on a weekend, if I get done by 5 or 6, I'm happy. If the group ahead is playing faster, I'll play faster. If not, we take our time. I try not to get worked up about it because usually if the group ahead of me is slow, it's because the whole course is backed up from groups that probably aren't even playing anymore. I'm more bothered by the group behind that doesn't realize this, and tries to push us forward as if we have somewhere to go. In that sense, I prefer a round where pace of play is being dictated by the people ahead of me as opposed to the ones behind. I hate feeling rushed more than play taking too long. Unless we're trying to finish before dark, I generally don't care how long play takes. We were playing with a guy last week who was getting really worked up about the group ahead taking too long. He went to confront that group and later the group ahead of them when they were on an adjacent hole. I don't get that intensity, and I frankly dislike playing with the guy who's getting worked up about other groups more than I mind playing behind a slower group.

post #42 of 89

This is the bottom of the scorecard from my home course:

post #43 of 89

A published pace of play is likely the slowest pace the course deems acceptable.  If people are playing to the published POP I have no issues with it.  I know some golfers want to push the pace and the groups in front of them but I'd rather just stay right behind them and never have to wait.

 

IMO, biggest time killer is lost balls.  It's hard to avoid if you have a lot of golfers that mishit so bad that their ball goes deep into the woods.  Courses would help their own pace of play if they kept the rough near the fairway cut tighter so that if a ball lands within 5 - 10 feet of the fairway it doesn't take more than 5 minutes to find it. 

post #44 of 89

I played an afternoon 12 yesterday.  On the par 3 11th I hooked an 8 iron into a greenside bunker.  It was a very poor shot.

 

When I got up to my ball, I was buried somewhat in the face.  I had two options.  One, go high out of the bunker to the middle of the green and try a 10 footer for par.  Or hit low into a slope and try to get it close, but risk the lip.

 

It took me a significant amount of time to make this decision.  The group on the tee behind me started to get agitated doing the "what are you doing" arms raises and whistling.  I played the 12 holes in about 2 hours and 20 minutes, which is a pretty good pace.  But since I took a while on this shot, they started with the grief.

 

I ignored them and hit a decent shot.

 

But its annoying dealing with those people.  Don't be that guy.  If I'm playing briskly and stop for a reason you can't identify, theres probably a good reason.

 

I just get very annoyed at posts like the OP.  I will take as many practice shots as I want.  I will take as long as I need to figure out how to hit out of this bunker.  As long as the overall pace is fine, leave me alone.

 

This is why its annoying to read lists like "don't take a bunch of practice swings" or "you'll play better faster" or "hit immediately when its your turn".  Its all subjective.  1. they aren't true for everyone and 2. its none of your business!  SO you'd rather someone take five hours but do everything "correctly" than have a guy on his phone that takes 3 and a half?

 

The only thing that matters is overall pace.  Period.  All the little nit-picky stuff is annoying and, quite frankly, it probably hurts your game to being constantly monitoring if people in front of you are committing what are, in your own mind, speed faux pas on the course.  If you are at a good pace and you slow down for a hole, you shouldn't get crap from people behind you because your mannerisms aren't what they think of as fast.

post #45 of 89
Quote:
Originally Posted by johnclayton1982 View Post
 

 

It took me a significant amount of time to make this decision.  The group on the tee behind me started to get agitated doing the "what are you doing" arms raises and whistling.  I played the 12 holes in about 2 hours and 20 minutes, which is a pretty good pace.  But since I took a while on this shot, they started with the grief.

 

I ignored them and hit a decent shot.

 

I doubt I'd even notice what you did if you played 12 holes in 2:20. My experience is golfers playing at a reasonable pace rarely have a group right behind them waiting. But if I was someone taking their time to make a few difficult shots here and there wouldn't bother me. I assume once you got out the jam you resumed your previous pace. That's just the way golf is. The slowpokes I get stuck behind aren't playing 4.5 quality golf. You are going to keep pace just because you play decent golf regardless of what your routine is.

post #46 of 89
Quote:
Originally Posted by johnclayton1982 View Post
 

I played an afternoon 12 yesterday.  On the par 3 11th I hooked an 8 iron into a greenside bunker.  It was a very poor shot.

 

When I got up to my ball, I was buried somewhat in the face.  I had two options.  One, go high out of the bunker to the middle of the green and try a 10 footer for par.  Or hit low into a slope and try to get it close, but risk the lip.

 

It took me a significant amount of time to make this decision.  The group on the tee behind me started to get agitated doing the "what are you doing" arms raises and whistling.  I played the 12 holes in about 2 hours and 20 minutes, which is a pretty good pace.  But since I took a while on this shot, they started with the grief.

 

I ignored them and hit a decent shot.

 

But its annoying dealing with those people.  Don't be that guy.  If I'm playing briskly and stop for a reason you can't identify, theres probably a good reason.

 

I just get very annoyed at posts like the OP.  I will take as many practice shots as I want.  I will take as long as I need to figure out how to hit out of this bunker.  As long as the overall pace is fine, leave me alone.

 

This is why its annoying to read lists like "don't take a bunch of practice swings" or "you'll play better faster" or "hit immediately when its your turn".  Its all subjective.  1. they aren't true for everyone and 2. its none of your business!  SO you'd rather someone take five hours but do everything "correctly" than have a guy on his phone that takes 3 and a half?

 

The only thing that matters is overall pace.  Period.  All the little nit-picky stuff is annoying and, quite frankly, it probably hurts your game to being constantly monitoring if people in front of you are committing what are, in your own mind, speed faux pas on the course.  If you are at a good pace and you slow down for a hole, you shouldn't get crap from people behind you because your mannerisms aren't what they think of as fast.

 

I didn't read your other posts in here but to this one I can't believe at least one of the group behind you weren't like "Come on guys let's calm down. The guy in front of us clearly has a tough decision to make and it's more interesting watching him to see what he decides to do than actually playing golf ourselves" 

 

And you don't specify but if you were by yourself and there was a "group" on the box behind you then you were either slow the whole time or a "significant amount of time" was way too long. Also if you were by yourself you were pacing 3.5 hours which is not very quick at all as a one and if that is the case then this post makes you sound like a selfish person who feels like you bought the course for your green fee instead of just paying to play on it and screw anybody else and their desire to play golf. 

 

Of course if you just didn't spell it out and you were in a group with the same amount of people behind you and it took you a reasonable "significant amount of time" then I am sorry. 

post #47 of 89
Quote:
Originally Posted by whatwoodtigerdo View Post
 

 

I didn't read your other posts in here but to this one I can't believe at least one of the group behind you weren't like "Come on guys let's calm down. The guy in front of us clearly has a tough decision to make and it's more interesting watching him to see what he decides to do than actually playing golf ourselves"

 

And you don't specify but if you were by yourself and there was a "group" on the box behind you then you were either slow the whole time or a "significant amount of time" was way too long. Also if you were by yourself you were pacing 3.5 hours which is not very quick at all as a one and if that is the case then this post makes you sound like a selfish person who feels like you bought the course for your green fee instead of just paying to play on it and screw anybody else and their desire to play golf.

 

Of course if you just didn't spell it out and you were in a group with the same amount of people behind you and it took you a reasonable "significant amount of time" then I am sorry.

I had the same questions.

 

How many people in your group?  How many in the group behind?  And most importantly of all, where was the group in front of you?

post #48 of 89

I doubt he let the group ahead get away playing at 11.5 minutes a hole pace, through 12 holes he was on pace to finish in roughly 3.5 hours. Unless he was a single held up by groups ahead it seems he was part of a group. Sounds like he had time to spare. I can't see any reason for anyone around him to be ruffled.

post #49 of 89
Quote:
 How many people in your group?  How many in the group behind?  And most importantly of all, where was the group in front of you?

 

2 (including me) in my group, 2 in the group behind.

 

Group in front was within sight most of the round, and on the next green while I was looking at this shot.  They moved to the 13th tee while I was putting.  So the 12th hole was open in between my group and that group while this was going on.  The group in front had 3, and those 3 were playing faster or about our pace for most of the round.  The group ahead I am assuming were on a local college team as they had matching bags and were pretty good.

Quote:
 Also if you were by yourself you were pacing 3.5 hours which is not very quick at all as a one and if that is the case then this post makes you sound like a selfish person who feels like you bought the course for your green fee instead of just paying to play on it and screw anybody else and their desire to play golf. 

 

I was in a group of 2.  My course does not change POP based on number in the group.

 

Quote:
 And you don't specify but if you were by yourself and there was a "group" on the box behind you then you were either slow the whole time or a "significant amount of time" was way too long

 

This is kinda my entire point, right here.  You don't get to decide if it was too long.  Its my decision how to allocate my time on the course.  You get to complain if I play over the POP, which I shattered.  I get I won't convince some people that the whole "play to the groups around you" thing is silly, but I consider it much more of an etiquiette breach to do stuff like the "whats going on hand gestures", shouting "yip" and doing wolf whistles than playing "slow" (<- I put slow in quotes b/c it wasn't slow.  It just wasn't as fast as the group behind me wanted.).

 

Quote:
  this post makes you sound like a selfish person who feels like you bought the course for your green fee instead of just paying to play on it and screw anybody else and their desire to play golf. 

 

See, this I totally, 100% don't get.  You call me selfish and I want to "screw anybody else and their desire to play golf" but why is it on me?  Why are the guys behind me not selfish for wanting to speed me up?  I want to play at pace X.  You want to play at pace Y.  Why do you win simply because you happen to be placed behind me on the tee sheet?

post #50 of 89
Quote:
Originally Posted by johnclayton1982 View Post
 

 

2 (including me) in my group, 2 in the group behind.

 

Group in front was within sight most of the round, and on the next green while I was looking at this shot.  They moved to the 13th tee while I was putting.  So the 12th hole was open in between my group and that group while this was going on.  The group in front had 3, and those 3 were playing faster or about our pace for most of the round.  The group ahead I am assuming were on a local college team as they had matching bags and were pretty good.

 

I was in a group of 2.  My course does not change POP based on number in the group.

 

 

This is kinda my entire point, right here.  You don't get to decide if it was too long.  Its my decision how to allocate my time on the course.  You get to complain if I play over the POP, which I shattered.  I get I won't convince some people that the whole "play to the groups around you" thing is silly, but I consider it much more of an etiquiette breach to do stuff like the "whats going on hand gestures", shouting "yip" and doing wolf whistles than playing "slow" (<- I put slow in quotes b/c it wasn't slow.  It just wasn't as fast as the group behind me wanted.).

 

 

See, this I totally, 100% don't get.  You call me selfish and I want to "screw anybody else and their desire to play golf" but why is it on me?  Why are the guys behind me not selfish for wanting to speed me up?  I want to play at pace X.  You want to play at pace Y.  Why do you win simply because you happen to be placed behind me on the tee sheet?

 

Someone could go 25 on a one lane road with a posted speed limit of 55. If there isn't a minimum speed limit posted they are not breaking the law. Doesn't make them less of a douche bag for doing it though. As a matter of fact even if there is a minimum posted speed limit of say 35 in a 55, if a person is going 35 just because they can I would consider them a selfish prick who gets their kicks out of making other people wait and go at their pace. 

post #51 of 89
Quote:
Originally Posted by johnclayton1982 View Post
 

 

2 (including me) in my group, 2 in the group behind.

 

Group in front was within sight most of the round, and on the next green while I was looking at this shot.  They moved to the 13th tee while I was putting.  So the 12th hole was open in between my group and that group while this was going on.  The group in front had 3, and those 3 were playing faster or about our pace for most of the round.  The group ahead I am assuming were on a local college team as they had matching bags and were pretty good.

So your twosome was an entire hole behind the threesome in front of you.  You have only two options at this point:  You either speed up to keep pace with them, or you let the guys behind you play through and keep going at your leisurely pace.

 

That's it.

 

And I was going to say something a little similar to what @whatwoodtigerdo said about driving.  Your attitude reminds me of the guy who drives 2 mph over the speed limit in the fast lane and doesn't worry about anybody behind you that wants to go faster because "hey, I'm following the rules."

post #52 of 89
Quote:
Originally Posted by whatwoodtigerdo View Post
 

 

Someone could go 25 on a one lane road with a posted speed limit of 55. If there isn't a minimum speed limit posted they are not breaking the law. Doesn't make them less of a douche bag for doing it though. As a matter of fact even if there is a minimum posted speed limit of say 35 in a 55, if a person is going 35 just because they can I would consider them a selfish prick who gets their kicks out of making other people wait and go at their pace. 


Not a good analogy considering he mentioned playing faster than the POP by a pretty good clip at that.

post #53 of 89
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave2512 View Post
 


Not a good analogy considering he mentioned playing faster than the POP.

 

Right if we are really not going to take into consideration that POP is clearly for foursomes whether posted or not. It's funny being on the other side of this. Because often times I think people rush too much and a weekend POP between 4-4.5 hours is nice and comfortable pace for me and hate speed demons. But if this gentleman was just standing there staring at a bunker shot in front of me for 5 minutes or so I probably would've hit over his head and told him I thought he was waiting for me to play through. 

post #54 of 89
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by johnclayton1982 View Post

It took me a significant amount of time to make this decision.  The group on the tee behind me started to get agitated doing the "what are you doing" arms raises and whistling.  I played the 12 holes in about 2 hours and 20 minutes, which is a pretty good pace.  But since I took a while on this shot, they started with the grief.

This is why its annoying to read lists like "don't take a bunch of practice swings"
hit immediately when its your turn".  Its all subjective. 
SO you'd rather someone take five hours but do everything "correctly" than have a guy on his phone that takes 3 and a half?

The only thing that matters is overall pace.  
You have to remember this is a sport!
Not many other sports will stop play while you take a phone call! Many sports will and do allow you to pause for thought, and that's fine!
But You SHOULD be prepared to take your shot when it's your turn! I never implied you should rush a shot! Just be ready for it!
And If your doing everything correctly it will NOT take 5 hours!
"POP" is not worth a $hit for people with no consideration, and it would appear that the "POP" has been set for these people!
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