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NBA Finals - Page 4

post #55 of 141
Quote:
Originally Posted by iacas View Post
 

Marino must have been a really sucky QB.

 

You can't really use records in team sports to measure an individual very well.

Jim Kelly and Warren Moon too. Poor bastards were turrible.

post #56 of 141

Guarantee Heat will win the next game, but spurs will probably still pull it out in the end.

post #57 of 141
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lucas View Post

Guarantee Heat will win the next game, but spurs will probably still pull it out in the end.
I wouldn't be so sure about that, Spurs will finish them off
post #58 of 141
Spurs close it tomorrow at home!
post #59 of 141
Spurs WIN!
Spurs WIN!
Spurs WIN!
post #60 of 141
Wooooh Spurs!
post #61 of 141
Quote:
Originally Posted by Righty to Lefty View Post
 


That is just about the silliest statement and shows that most people on here are simply just haters and not truly looking at the big picture. How many titles did MJ win before Phil showed up..................I'm still waiting.......oh that's right the Pistons and the Celtics were dump trucking them and they never made it to the finals. MJ has NEVER won a title when he was on an inferior team. Jordan scored a lot of points but didn't have anything to show for it until Phil showed up and put it all together.

 

 I bet you can't even name 5 players on the Cleveland team that LeBron lead to the finals and I'll spot you three (LBJ, Mo Williams, Ilgauskis).

 

Boobie Gibson, Shannon Brown, Anderson Varajao, Sasha Pavlovic, Donyell Marshall, Eric Snow, Drew Gooden, Larry Hughes...want me to keep going? BTW, Mo Williams wasn't on that team...

 

Maybe check my location before asking that question...lol.

 

I've watched LeBron's entire career...regular season, and Playoffs. Jordan elevated his game in the playoffs, especially on the biggest stage. LeBron routinely shrinks and struggles. He'll have his great games, and then come back and score 2 points in the fourth quarter of a loss. Even with the massive genetic advantage that LeBron has over Jordan, he doesn't come close...sorry. And I said the same thing when LeBron was in Cleveland. If Ray Allen didn't bail out his poor effort in the "win or go home" game 6 last year, he'd be 1-4 in the finals.

 

Watch LeBron's final Cavs playoff series against Boston, and then find me a series of Jordan's where he gave up like that. Oh, and before people point out that he had no team around him, they were the best team in the league...won more games than anyone else...and had a higher winner percentage than the Heat did in their 2012 championship season.

 

The NBA tries to make him better than he actually is. Don't get me wrong, he's a great player...one of the best ever, and without a doubt the best in the NBA today. But the NBA is trying to make him seem better than Jordan, and he just isn't. Sorry, he just isn't.

post #62 of 141
Quote:
Originally Posted by Slice of Life View Post

Boobie Gibson, Shannon Brown, Anderson Varajao, Sasha Pavlovic, Donyell Marshall, Eric Snow, Drew Gooden, Larry Hughes...want me to keep going? BTW, Mo Williams wasn't on that team...

Maybe check my location before asking that question...lol.

I've watched LeBron's entire career...regular season, and Playoffs. Jordan elevated his game in the playoffs, especially on the biggest stage. LeBron routinely shrinks and struggles. He'll have his great games, and then come back and score 2 points in the fourth quarter of a loss. Even with the massive genetic advantage that LeBron has over Jordan, he doesn't come close...sorry. And I said the same thing when LeBron was in Cleveland. If Ray Allen didn't bail out his poor effort in the "win or go home" game 6 last year, he'd be 1-4 in the finals.

Watch LeBron's final Cavs playoff series against Boston, and then find me a series of Jordan's where he gave up like that. Oh, and before people point out that he had no team around him, they were the best team in the league...won more games than anyone else...and had a higher winner percentage than the Heat did in their 2012 championship season.

The NBA tries to make him better than he actually is. Don't get me wrong, he's a great player...one of the best ever, and without a doubt the best in the NBA today. But the NBA is trying to make him seem better than Jordan, and he just isn't. Sorry, he just isn't.
Forgot to mention Turdo Sandowich ;)
post #63 of 141
Quote:
Originally Posted by Slice of Life View Post
 

 

Boobie Gibson, Shannon Brown, Anderson Varajao, Sasha Pavlovic, Donyell Marshall, Eric Snow, Drew Gooden, Larry Hughes...want me to keep going? BTW, Mo Williams wasn't on that team...

 

Maybe check my location before asking that question...lol.

 

I've watched LeBron's entire career...regular season, and Playoffs. Jordan elevated his game in the playoffs, especially on the biggest stage. LeBron routinely shrinks and struggles. He'll have his great games, and then come back and score 2 points in the fourth quarter of a loss. Even with the massive genetic advantage that LeBron has over Jordan, he doesn't come close...sorry. And I said the same thing when LeBron was in Cleveland. If Ray Allen didn't bail out his poor effort in the "win or go home" game 6 last year, he'd be 1-4 in the finals.

 

Watch LeBron's final Cavs playoff series against Boston, and then find me a series of Jordan's where he gave up like that. Oh, and before people point out that he had no team around him, they were the best team in the league...won more games than anyone else...and had a higher winner percentage than the Heat did in their 2012 championship season.

 

The NBA tries to make him better than he actually is. Don't get me wrong, he's a great player...one of the best ever, and without a doubt the best in the NBA today. But the NBA is trying to make him seem better than Jordan, and he just isn't. Sorry, he just isn't.

Very well said.  I was listening to sports talk radio after game 3 or 4 and one of the guys on the show made a great point. Someone interviewed LBJ after the loss and asked him how long would a loss like that stick with him. His response was something like" Im already over it. My kids want to know where we are going for dinner". The observation the radio guy made was "its not like he doesn't want to win its just that he doesn't hate to lose."  When you look at Jordan, Kobe, Bird, ect... they just hated to lose.  It fueled them to work harder throughout their careers.  I like LBJ but he hasn't ever had chip on his shoulder like a lot of other all time greats. Jordan would almost make up some sort of slight as a reason to be motivated.  I don't know if its todays 24/7 sports coverage or what but it seems like in every sport the media is crowning someone as the GOAT before they've even done all that much.  I mean let these guys finish their careers before we start talking about how great they are.

post #64 of 141
Quote:
Originally Posted by Slice of Life View Post
 

 

Boobie Gibson, Shannon Brown, Anderson Varajao, Sasha Pavlovic, Donyell Marshall, Eric Snow, Drew Gooden, Larry Hughes...want me to keep going? BTW, Mo Williams wasn't on that team...

 

Maybe check my location before asking that question...lol.

 

I've watched LeBron's entire career...regular season, and Playoffs. Jordan elevated his game in the playoffs, especially on the biggest stage. LeBron routinely shrinks and struggles. He'll have his great games, and then come back and score 2 points in the fourth quarter of a loss. Even with the massive genetic advantage that LeBron has over Jordan, he doesn't come close...sorry. And I said the same thing when LeBron was in Cleveland. If Ray Allen didn't bail out his poor effort in the "win or go home" game 6 last year, he'd be 1-4 in the finals.

 

Watch LeBron's final Cavs playoff series against Boston, and then find me a series of Jordan's where he gave up like that. Oh, and before people point out that he had no team around him, they were the best team in the league...won more games than anyone else...and had a higher winner percentage than the Heat did in their 2012 championship season.

 

The NBA tries to make him better than he actually is. Don't get me wrong, he's a great player...one of the best ever, and without a doubt the best in the NBA today. But the NBA is trying to make him seem better than Jordan, and he just isn't. Sorry, he just isn't.


I stand corrected on the Mo Williams statement as he arrived a year later but I'm sure that you understand what I mean when I said name some players from that team. 99% of people can't name anyone off that roster until you did. The fact that can't be refuted is that Jordan never played in the finals on an inferior team. Lets be real, no player is "giving up" in the finals but the other team can impose their will as such that it appears like that. Did the Broncos "give up" against the Seahawks in the super bowl this year? Heck no they didn't but their game plan was so ineffective that their was nothing they could do on that particular day. The fact of the matter is that when Jordan wasn't on the better team, his team lost despite his efforts, like when he scored 60 points against the Celtics, and they still lost.

 

Lebron had 31 points, 10 boards, and 5 assists in the final game against the Spurs....so did he give up....or was he simply not on the better team.  The better team is going to win more often than not in sports. Everyone acts like Jordan is god or something and never missed a shot.  A lot of people will say that Magic was better than Jordan and make a good case for it.

 

Nevertheless time will take care of this just like it always does in sports.

post #65 of 141
post #66 of 141
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jakester23 View Post

No one say magic was better than Michael.
http://www.landofbasketball.com/player_comparison/j/magic_johnson_vs_michael_jordan.htm


Like I said...people who actually played in that era have said Magic was better because of his value to his team as a whole. Not just with points but in his ability to distribute the ball and make the team work efficiently. The very same formula that the Spurs use to win.

 

Kareem's numbers are very much in line with MJ's:

http://www.landofbasketball.com/player_comparison/a/kareem_abdul_jabbar_vs_michael_jordan.htm

 

What about Wilt:

http://www.landofbasketball.com/player_comparison/c/wilt_chamberlain_vs_michael_jordan.htm

 

 

I also believe that this is also a pretty good summation:

 

I would say Magic Johnson was better than Jordan for following reasons

Versatility
Magic could easily play point guard, shooting guard, small forward, and power forward. He once played center in 1980 nba finals and won with kareem injured in game 6. The bulls struggled when Jordan played the point because he was not good at distributing. Jordan was too small in size and did not have the strength to play small forward at his prime.

Overall Talent
While I do give Michael Jordan the edge in scoring, Magic had more all around talent. He has 100 more triple doubles than Michael Jordan did even though he retired at only 32. Magic Johnson was the best passer the game has every seen not even john stockton, jason kidd, steve nash, or chris paul can pass as good as Magic Johnson. Magic Johnson was best rebounder who played out of any guard position averaging 7.2 rebounds a game for his career.

Competitiveness
While Jordan did win 6 rings. Magic Johnson won 5 rings in the 1980's era that was best in basketball there was celtics who had bird, mchale, and parish. Pistons who had isaih thomas, dennis rodman, joe dumars. 76ers that had moses malone and Dr. J. and Magic beat all those teams which were the only other teams to win a championship beside lakers in 1980's. The teams Jordan beat had only one top 50 player of all time or at most 2 like jazz.

post #67 of 141
Quote:
Originally Posted by Righty to Lefty View Post
 


I stand corrected on the Mo Williams statement as he arrived a year later but I'm sure that you understand what I mean when I said name some players from that team. 99% of people can't name anyone off that roster until you did. The fact that can't be refuted is that Jordan never played in the finals on an inferior team. Lets be real, no player is "giving up" in the finals but the other team can impose their will as such that it appears like that. Did the Broncos "give up" against the Seahawks in the super bowl this year? Heck no they didn't but their game plan was so ineffective that their was nothing they could do on that particular day. The fact of the matter is that when Jordan wasn't on the better team, his team lost despite his efforts, like when he scored 60 points against the Celtics, and they still lost.

 

Lebron had 31 points, 10 boards, and 5 assists in the final game against the Spurs....so did he give up....or was he simply not on the better team.  The better team is going to win more often than not in sports. Everyone acts like Jordan is god or something and never missed a shot.  A lot of people will say that Magic was better than Jordan and make a good case for it.

 

Nevertheless time will take care of this just like it always does in sports.

 

As far as "inferior", it depends on what you mean. And regardless, LeBron has now lost two Finals series while not playing on an "inferior" team. The Cavs team was inferior, by a lot. But not the Heat. 

 

And sure, LeBron had a good stat-line in the last game. I didn't say he always gives up, but there are games where the effort just isn't there...that's the difference. When the bulls were in the playoffs, nobody questioned Jordan's effort, desire, or leadership. There's a reason LeBron's is ALWAYS questioned...

post #68 of 141
Quote:
Originally Posted by Righty to Lefty View Post


Like I said...people who actually played in that era have said Magic was better because of his value to his team as a whole. Not just with points but in his ability to distribute the ball and make the team work efficiently. The very same formula that the Spurs use to win.

Kareem's numbers are very much in line with MJ's:
http://www.landofbasketball.com/player_comparison/a/kareem_abdul_jabbar_vs_michael_jordan.htm

What about Wilt:
http://www.landofbasketball.com/player_comparison/c/wilt_chamberlain_vs_michael_jordan.htm

I also believe that this is also a pretty good summation:

I would say Magic Johnson was better than Jordan for following reasons


Versatility

Magic could easily play point guard, shooting guard, small forward, and power forward. He once played center in 1980 nba finals and won with kareem injured in game 6. The bulls struggled when Jordan played the point because he was not good at distributing. Jordan was too small in size and did not have the strength to play small forward at his prime.


Overall Talent

While I do give Michael Jordan the edge in scoring, Magic had more all around talent. He has 100 more triple doubles than Michael Jordan did even though he retired at only 32. Magic Johnson was the best passer the game has every seen not even john stockton, jason kidd, steve nash, or chris paul can pass as good as Magic Johnson. Magic Johnson was best rebounder who played out of any guard position averaging 7.2 rebounds a game for his career.


Competitiveness

While Jordan did win 6 rings. Magic Johnson won 5 rings in the 1980's era that was best in basketball there was celtics who had bird, mchale, and parish. Pistons who had isaih thomas, dennis rodman, joe dumars. 76ers that had moses malone and Dr. J. and Magic beat all those teams which were the only other teams to win a championship beside lakers in 1980's. The teams Jordan beat had only one top 50 player of all time or at most 2 like jazz.
You do realize that magic wasn't even the best player on his team for the first few titles right? Magic himself even said he thinks Kobe Bryant is the best Laker ever so I doubt he thinks he is in the conversation with MJ as the GOAT.
post #69 of 141
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jakester23 View Post


You do realize that magic wasn't even the best player on his team for the first few titles right? Magic himself even said he thinks Kobe Bryant is the best Laker ever so I doubt he thinks he is in the conversation with MJ as the GOAT.


You do realize that I never asked what Magic thought of Magic. Shoot Jack says that Tiger is better than he was but we still argue that right. I was simply proving that stats don't tell the whole story because if they did then you could make the case that both Kareem and Wilt were better than Jordan but very rarely does anyone make that case. Emmit Smith has better stats than Barry Sanders but I will never tell you that he was a better running back....and I am a diehard Cowboys fan.

post #70 of 141
Barry is better so is tiger. Magic had a better team around him has less titles and has lost more times in the finals. Wilt has how many championships? I would agree that Kareem ia closer to Jordan than magic but still not as good.
post #71 of 141
Comparing LeBron to Jordan isnt the correct comparison at all. You'd do better comapring him to Oscar Robertson, because like LeBron he did it all. The "Big O" averaged a Triple Double for an entire season. I'd much rather Lebron do that as opposed to taking 50 shots per game and dishing out only 2 assists like MJ and Kobe. People like to bang on Lebron and if you're from Ohio you have the right. But anyone else is just a hater in my humble opinion. The Kid made a stupid TV show appearance to announce he was leaving the Cavs...........thats it. If some of the things I did in my 20's were on TV for the world to see I may be in jail right now. If you hate the way the Heat came together then I guess you also hated the Celtics for doing the same thing? Shoot for one season the Lakers had Shaq, Kobe, Gary Payton and Karl Malone in the starting line-up. The NBA has mobbed up refs anyway so who cares, BRING ON NFL TRAINING CAMP!
post #72 of 141
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jakester23 View Post

Barry is better so is tiger. Magic had a better team around him has less titles and has lost more times in the finals. Wilt has how many championships? I would agree that Kareem ia closer to Jordan than magic but still not as good.


You are a hypocrite now with that statement. How is Barry Sanders in any way better than Emmitt by your criteria? Emmitt has more yards, touchdowns, and rings.  Oh let me guess now talent and the team around you counts when it is convenient but Lebron is a bum because he is ultra talented but isn't always on the best team though he's the best individual player. Barry Sanders never even played in a Super Bowl so how can he even be in the conversation for GOAT. Please explain this for me as I am now completely confused.

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