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Tuning Drivers with Lead Tape - Page 2

post #19 of 33
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lihu View Post
 

Okay, I had a little mishap in the dewy morning grass. The tape came off after the duct tape started to come loose.

 

I re-applied the tape, but this time 3 layers with 3 wide for a 1.5" wide. The epoxy is just a layer of protection for the lead. We'll see if that works on the soft lead.
 

 

 

 


48 grams!?!?!?!   I thought the factory 13 gram weight in the heel of my Razr Fit Xtreme was a load....   48 grams is a LOT of weight you are moving around!!

post #20 of 33
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by teamroper60 View Post


48 grams!?!?!?!   I thought the factory 13 gram weight in the heel of my Razr Fit Xtreme was a load....   48 grams is a LOT of weight you are moving around!!

Just tried a couple shots into a net. Feels okay, but the test will be on the course tomorrow. a2_wink.gif
post #21 of 33
Thread Starter 

Will do more testing tomorrow morning in a controlled environment, will film my swing.

post #22 of 33
Thread Starter 
Finally started to make full swings.



The adhesive on the lead tape is not all that good, it only lasted about 50 shots. It failed just as I was "getting going".
Well, I did tune it with lead tape, I just need to find a permanent solution to retain the tuning.

Next thread topic, adding weight permanently to your driver.
post #23 of 33
Is the conclusion that tuning with lead tape is really just not a good idea?
post #24 of 33
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Abu3baid View Post

Is the conclusion that tuning with lead tape is really just not a good idea?


The conclusion should be something like "Lead tape is fine for tuning the driver, but will not make for a permanent solution."

 

I need to research cheap ways to add hot melt, and source some good melt. Mitchell's is a good starting point, but I saw some information that it might not be as good a solution as "something else". A tech. at TM discovered something better. I'm going to look into some epoxies from my sources.

 

Then figure out a way to drill into the hosel and replace it.

 

The tricky one is going to be the Biocell, or any other tunable driver. The hole goes all the way through the hosel. Going to have to drill a new hole then make a "weight port" for it.

 

This is all going to take some time to research. Any help would be appreciated.

post #25 of 33
I am assuming you are doing all of this for fun right? And not really a way for you to reduce strokes?

Because now you are getting into melting stuff and drilling holes into drivers and stuff, and in sure this is fun stuff for engineers! However, for reducing strikes you are probably better off with an off the shelf solution + working on swing!

So, it is the former I'm assuming right?
post #26 of 33
Thread Starter 
Well, I'm toying with the ability for slower swingers to get more control and distance.

At some point, our swing speed maximizes. The theory is that there is some amount of weight you can add without slowing down.

Adding just enough mass to gain more stability is the other goal.

None of this is to compensate for a bad swing. In fact, if you add this much mass with a bad swing you could injure yourself.
post #27 of 33
Quote:
Originally Posted by Abu3baid View Post

Is the conclusion that tuning with lead tape is really just not a good idea?

 

I've been using lead tape to tweak the feel of my clubs for years and think it's a great way to go.  Granted, I've never used as much as what Lihu is experimenting with, but I've got at least one strip of lead tape on all but maybe 2 or 3 clubs in my bag.  Some guys don't like the way it looks, but for those who don't mind that aspect it's a great item...it's inexpensive, easy to use, and if you put too much on or change your mind just peel it off and start over!  I've never seen it damage the finish of a head either.  One thing that I've always done though is press the tape in place as hard as I can with my thumb (it will turn your fingers black, but it washes off), then take an object (I usually use the butt end of a Sharpie) and use it to press the tape even more, especially the edges.  The wedge pic was one I just pulled off the net, but you can see the long "scratches" in the tape from doing this.  

 


Make sure the clubhead where you're applying the tape is clean and dry.   Dirt, fertilizer and oils or solvents can cause the tape to not stick well.  Putting the tape on the sole of a club can be a challenge, even if it's a driver.  Dew or other moisture as well as brushing the top if the grass can cause it to peel, especially when using a lot of strips.  If you can move it more towards the back of the club rather than on the sole I think it would help prevent peeling.

post #28 of 33
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1badbadger View Post
 

 

I've been using lead tape to tweak the feel of my clubs for years and think it's a great way to go.  Granted, I've never used as much as what Lihu is experimenting with, but I've got at least one strip of lead tape on all but maybe 2 or 3 clubs in my bag.  Some guys don't like the way it looks, but for those who don't mind that aspect it's a great item...it's inexpensive, easy to use, and if you put too much on or change your mind just peel it off and start over!  I've never seen it damage the finish of a head either.  One thing that I've always done though is press the tape in place as hard as I can with my thumb (it will turn your fingers black, but it washes off), then take an object (I usually use the butt end of a Sharpie) and use it to press the tape even more, especially the edges.  The wedge pic was one I just pulled off the net, but you can see the long "scratches" in the tape from doing this.  

 


Make sure the clubhead where you're applying the tape is clean and dry.   Dirt, fertilizer and oils or solvents can cause the tape to not stick well.  Putting the tape on the sole of a club can be a challenge, even if it's a driver.  Dew or other moisture as well as brushing the top if the grass can cause it to peel, especially when using a lot of strips.  If you can move it more towards the back of the club rather than on the sole I think it would help prevent peeling.

 

Thanks for the contribution.

 

I cleaned each layer with IPA and buffed each layer of lead with a paper towel. I think the 4 layers was a little too much for the adhesive to grab. I was thinking of doing thinner layers, but I felt that hot melt or tungsten powder down the shaft might work better for club in general. I use a steel shaft so 45gm will only take up 3cc of space or about 5cm up the shaft. Hot melt is only about 55cc or the 1/9 the volume of the club head.

 

Lead and Hot melt also dulls the sound of the driver. Without the lead tape the club is really loud on mishits. I'm hoping for something more durable and "stealthy".

post #29 of 33
Thread Starter 

According to some quick calculations based upon a reasonably reliable paper published: http://www.eng.yale.edu/physicsofgolf/Coefficient%20of%20Restitution.pdf

 

The 48gm of lead should have only yielded a ball velocity increase of 3.5mph which translates to only about 5.5 yards carry distance increase. So, this means that the 10-15 yard gain I observed must have been caused by an increase in the swing speed with additional weight or that the COR is not constant when weight is added to the club head.

 

The momentum equations will yield a 25% increase in ball velocity, but the COR will be based upon the kinetic energy which will increase the delta KE loss by also 25%.

 

The other issue is if adding weight to the club head changes the COR? I wonder if the equipment is deemed non-conforming? I would guess that it is still conforming because they use a steel ball test on the face and measure that the time the ball is in contact with the face is less than 257 microseconds (239 limit + 18 tolerance). Mass seems to have nothing to do with the results of the USGA test.

 

Need to do some more detailed calculations and model this thing over the next few weeks to figure out what happened in the experiments. Possibly measurement error as well? I checked them with the laser, but it could have been only a delta of 5.5 yards that cause the balls to hit the fence or fall short of it?

 

In any case, I am going to re-do the measurements again in a more controlled fashion.

post #30 of 33
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lihu View Post
 

The 48gm of lead should have only yielded a ball velocity increase of 3.5mph which translates to only about 5.5 yards carry distance increase. So, this means that the 10-15 yard gain I observed must have been caused by an increase in the swing speed with additional weight or that the COR is not constant when weight is added to the club head.

 

It's highly unlikely you swung that much faster, particularly since you would likely swing SLOWER with a heavier club.

 

I'm not sure what the purpose of this thread is really about. Virtually nobody adds weight to drivers these days because… you want to swing them fast. Tuning, yes, but not with lead tape…?

post #31 of 33
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lihu View Post
 

According to some quick calculations based upon a reasonably reliable paper published: http://www.eng.yale.edu/physicsofgolf/Coefficient%20of%20Restitution.pdf

 

The 48gm of lead should have only yielded a ball velocity increase of 3.5mph which translates to only about 5.5 yards carry distance increase. So, this means that the 10-15 yard gain I observed must have been caused by an increase in the swing speed with additional weight or that the COR is not constant when weight is added to the club head.

 

The momentum equations will yield a 25% increase in ball velocity, but the COR will be based upon the kinetic energy which will increase the delta KE loss by also 25%.

 

The other issue is if adding weight to the club head changes the COR? I wonder if the equipment is deemed non-conforming? I would guess that it is still conforming because they use a steel ball test on the face and measure that the time the ball is in contact with the face is less than 257 microseconds (239 limit + 18 tolerance). Mass seems to have nothing to do with the results of the USGA test.

 

Need to do some more detailed calculations and model this thing over the next few weeks to figure out what happened in the experiments. Possibly measurement error as well? I checked them with the laser, but it could have been only a delta of 5.5 yards that cause the balls to hit the fence or fall short of it?

 

In any case, I am going to re-do the measurements again in a more controlled fashion.

 

Here is an easier one to work with. 

 

Ball Speed = Smash Factor x Club Head Speed

 

Smash Factor = (1 + COR) x cos(Spin Loft) / (1 + Ball Mass / Club Head Mass)

 

Basically the only thing changing weight does is change the smash factor. Basically if you keep everything the same, then if you just add 20 grams to the clubhead, lets say going from 180 to 200. You should gain 2.5-3.6 mph ball speed depending on your clubhead speed. 

 

Here's the thing, for every 1 mph you loose in clubhead speed due to adding weight, you loose around 2.8 mph ball speed. Again keeping everything constant except the clubhead mass.

 

At least that is what those equations are telling me in excel. I could be wrong, or the equations could be overly simplified, but you get the idea as to why golf club makers keep clubhead weight around 180-210 grams. It is a good zone were golfers can feel the club to get decent contact, also have enough mass to get a good smash factor, and light enough to keep club head speed up. 

 

To me though, I would also take into consideration that maybe you like a heavier feeling golf club (swing weight). Maybe you are gaining better contact. I doubt you are gaining clubhead speed from adding weight. 

post #32 of 33
Quote:
Originally Posted by saevel25 View Post
 

To me though, I would also take into consideration that maybe you like a heavier feeling golf club (swing weight). Maybe you are gaining better contact. I doubt you are gaining clubhead speed from adding weight. 

 

Yup.

post #33 of 33
Thread Starter 
Actually, looking at the face, it looks like most of my shots with the heavier club are better centered.

I should clarify that they are more tightly grouped. On the days i hit really far, they are probably more centered.
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