Originally Posted by bshalcomb
Originally Posted by MS256
It would be ironical (in a whole lot of ways) if I came down on the anti-gun side of any argument but I don't believe in pulling a gun in the hopes of de-escalating a threat. If I ever pull a gun it will be because I feel either my life or somebody else's life is in imminent danger and the only course is to use deadly force. One guy pulls a gun and the other guy pulls his and then you have a worse situation than a guy with a 9 iron.
So basically if I pull a gun I am going to shoot it.
I'm also skeptical that somebody was so enraged that deadly force was justified and yet a friend stopped him.
Says to me that the guy was just putting on a show and wasn't going to hit anybody with anything.
In retrospect thats probably right. Still came too close for comfort for me. Would i have actually busted him, probably not. Would I have drawn? About 2 more steps and it would have come out had i been armed and he wasnt stopped. When you're put in that situation, you unfortunately don't have the luxury of weighing probability like that. Its a reaction. It must be a reaction. The time you don 't react to a threat or play it down might be the time that threat gets you.
And yet most police officers have never drawn a weapon on the job, let alone fired it, yet you (and most proponents) seem to suggest it as being your best line of defense when a threat is perceived, whether real or imagined.
Originally Posted by Gunther
Originally Posted by Mr. Desmond
Before you pull that gun out, think of the consequences of your actions beforehand, and the laws of your State. Take a course that deals with these issues. There is a lot at stake ...
The simple fact is that those with CCL's understand this. Some on this thread admonish as if CCL holders are a bunch of ignorant, knee-jerk criminals. Absolutely the opposite is true. Background checks are required (not always 100% effective, granted), most states require a gun-safety course, and most holders are very familiar with and comfortable around firearms.
There are very few instances where a CCL holder was involved in an unjustified shooting. 82 shootings in Chi last weekend alone, none involved a CCL holder. It just doesn't happen in any meaningful volume, I'd say less than 1%.
Yeah. This is the part that frightens me. These permit holders who have taken an 8 hour class in HOW to shoot, but have spent little or no time learning WHEN it would be proper or acceptable to do so. Or when it would even be proper to draw a gun. It takes four half day class sessions, plus 4 open water dives over multiple days just to get a scuba certification so that you can buy air for a dive - all to ensure that you aren't a threat to yourself. Yet an 8 hour class is all that's required to allow someone run around with a loaded, concealed firearm, potentially a threat to anyone who gives him a dirty look.
I'm far less concerned with a permit holder's gun skills than I am with his people skills - I'm uncertain that the average guy has the judgement to know when his firearm skills should properly be employed, and when to use reason instead of force. Having lived in the wild west (Montana and Colorado) since 1964, I know my way around firearms, short and long, but I'd be less certain of my ability to handle a seriously threatening situation correctly. I have little training in such scenarios (aside from a few hours in basic training 49 years ago), and no 8 hour class focused mostly on gun safety is going to significantly improve my skills along those lines. Unlike what someone said above, just carrying a weapon doesn't bestow upon the user an instant sense of reason and good judgement. It may actually, in some cases, make a person less likely to try and avoid a potential confrontation because it falsely gives him the confidence that he is able to handle any situation.