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Concealed Carry on The Course - Page 7

post #109 of 354
OP, I just want to say thank you for supporting your constitutional right. I don't carry any guns on a golf course but I have no problem with a legal trained citizen doing so. It's truly a shame that this has turned into a debate. I know that was not your intention. What's even more troubling is all the posters who disagree with you and are belittling themselves by throwing out insults. If you do not carry a firearm on the course then say that you don't and be respectful of the OP's original question. It seems all the insults and personal attacks are coming from the liberals who disagree. I don't understand why they have to be so hateful and violent in nature. I just thank God that none of them carry. OP if your ever in Colorado hit me up I would be honored to play a round of golf with you.

On a Side note for the gentlemen who said it is illegal to carry a firearm in a club house in Colorado you are wrong. Learn the laws, it's much better than making them up.
post #110 of 354
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gary L View Post


Guy might take a swing at you, you're not sure, so you shoot him in a pre-active strike? Stay the hell away from me.
I think the word you're looking for is "preemptive". Nowhere in here have i said i would immediately draw and empty a mag on the guy. That would be a pretty dumbass thing to do. The guy keeps on coming after i've drawn down and told him to stop? Doesnt leave me much choice in my mind.
post #111 of 354
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by 4 Gs View Post

OP, I just want to say thank you for supporting your constitutional right. I don't carry any guns on a golf course but I have no problem with a legal trained citizen doing so. It's truly a shame that this has turned into a debate. I know that was not your intention. What's even more troubling is all the posters who disagree with you and are belittling themselves by throwing out insults. If you do not carry a firearm on the course then say that you don't and be respectful of the OP's original question. It seems all the insults and personal attacks are coming from the liberals who disagree. I don't understand why they have to be so hateful and violent in nature. I just thank God that none of them carry. OP if your ever in Colorado hit me up I would be honored to play a round of golf with you.

On a Side note for the gentlemen who said it is illegal to carry a firearm in a club house in Colorado you are wrong. Learn the laws, it's much better than making them up.
Man if i ever get away from work and get time for a vacation, i'll probably head up to Ouray and try to get some fly fishing and golf in. I'll hit you up.
post #112 of 354

I'm convinced that proposed gun laws are not necessarily to keep guns out of the hands of criminals. My guess is they would only lower the percentage by a small amount. They are to keep us normal law abiding people from killing each other and to keep the crazies away from guns ... what about smart guns?

Quote:
Originally Posted by 4 Gs View Post

OP, I just want to say thank you for supporting your constitutional right. I don't carry any guns on a golf course but I have no problem with a legal trained citizen doing so. It's truly a shame that this has turned into a debate. I know that was not your intention. What's even more troubling is all the posters who disagree with you and are belittling themselves by throwing out insults. If you do not carry a firearm on the course then say that you don't and be respectful of the OP's original question. It seems all the insults and personal attacks are coming from the liberals who disagree. I don't understand why they have to be so hateful and violent in nature. I just thank God that none of them carry. OP if your ever in Colorado hit me up I would be honored to play a round of golf with you.

On a Side note for the gentlemen who said it is illegal to carry a firearm in a club house in Colorado you are wrong. Learn the laws, it's much better than making them up.

Wow. Really.

 

Liberals? Seriously?

 

This is a group of golfers who are fairly conservative.

 

Haven't seen "hateful" or ... "violent." I have gleamed a bit too much testosterone for my taste from the OP and others. These are tough decisions and hard consequences that must be viewed in a sober and rational manner before you begin carrying a gun, imho.

 

Before you pull that gun out, think of the consequences of your actions beforehand, and the laws of your State. Take a course that deals with these issues. There is a lot at stake ...


Edited by Mr. Desmond - 7/9/14 at 3:51am
post #113 of 354

I propose the mods lock this thread.  The golf conversation has long ago left the building. 

post #114 of 354
Quote:
Originally Posted by joekelly View Post

I propose the mods lock this thread.  The golf conversation has long ago left the building. 

Um, what? Very good discussion here, mostly respectful albeit per normal, a few uninformed wing nuts.

Why would a member make a request like this? If you don't like the discussion, stay out of it, don't try to stop it.

And to reiterate, had a CCL when I lived in ID but never carried on a golf course although always had one in my truck.
post #115 of 354
Quote:
Originally Posted by bshalcomb View Post

I think the word you're looking for is "preemptive". Nowhere in here have i said i would immediately draw and empty a mag on the guy. That would be a pretty dumbass thing to do. The guy keeps on coming after i've drawn down and told him to stop? Doesnt leave me much choice in my mind.

If someone is swinging an iron around my head the time to draw has already passed.

Tell you what bshal, if I ever get to your part of the world I'll look you up. Golf and a shoot sounds like a lot of fun :)

Regards

Mailman
post #116 of 354
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. Desmond View Post

Before you pull that gun out, think of the consequences of your actions beforehand, and the laws of your State. Take a course that deals with these issues. There is a lot at stake ...
The simple fact is that those with CCL's understand this. Some on this thread admonish as if CCL holders are a bunch of ignorant, knee-jerk criminals. Absolutely the opposite is true. Background checks are required (not always 100% effective, granted), most states require a gun-safety course, and most holders are very familiar with and comfortable around firearms.

There are very few instances where a CCL holder was involved in an unjustified shooting. 82 shootings in Chi last weekend alone, none involved a CCL holder. It just doesn't happen in any meaningful volume, I'd say less than 1%.
post #117 of 354
Quote:
Originally Posted by bshalcomb View Post


In retrospect thats probably right. Still came too close for comfort for me. Would i have actually busted him, probably not. Would I have drawn? About 2 more steps and it would have come out had i been armed and he wasnt stopped. When you're put in that situation, you unfortunately don't have the luxury of weighing probability like that. Its a reaction. It must be a reaction. The time you don 't react to a threat or play it down might be the time that threat gets you.


I agree with all of that and it's a very tough call. That's why it worries me when some people that may not be the best decision makers are carrying guns

(and some of them are friends of mine). ;-)

 

BTW there is a big sign at the entrance of the course where I work that says "This is private property. No firearms allowed."

 

I don't know if anybody follows that rule and my guess is that if a "situation" came up it would look like that funny scene in Maverick on the riverboat where everybody pulls out a gun and James Coburn looks at James Garner and says "Hell Coop, your security isn't worth a shit. Everybody's got a gun."

post #118 of 354

I sometimes carry on the golf course, but it makes it alot tougher to dig tee's out of my right pocket...

post #119 of 354


I work in an area that has a lot of homeless people and vagrants (spelling). These people constantly beg for money. If you say no some of them get angry. Twice when I have said no the person told me he would just take my money. Contrary to popular belief the majority of homeless in my area are not " down on their luck" they are homeless because they are drug and alcohol addicts..They are too lazy or too addicted to work, so they beg. They are not asking for money for food or gas or to feed their family. They want money to feed their addiction, and they will get physical to get it.

My point you ask ? There is a golf course two blocks from where I work. Monday afternoon a co-worker and I were playing this course. A bum came out of the woods asking us for money, we said no.

He looked straight at me and said I will just whip your MF ass and take what I want. Started walking towards me. I was not carrying a weapon. BUT I WISH I WAS !! Luckily the two of us backed him down and he left. Called the police and when they arrived I was informed that all I had to do was give him some money and he would have left. That's right it was MY fault !! This is what our country has come too. You can bet your ass this old boy will be carrying the next time he plays that course or maybe ANY course for that matter. I have the RIGHT to defend myself and not be robbed or beaten or stabbed or anything else.

post #120 of 354

The way I view it, if every law abiding citizen around me owned and carried a gun, I would be perfectly happy. Yes, you would have the occassional idiot hothead who unnecessarily escalates a situation because he's carrying a gun, but you would have overwhelmingly less crime overall. The #s fully support this- in areas where you have more legally owned guns, you have less crime. It's quite simple. It comes down to a trust issue that I think a lot of people on here are lacking- average law abiding gun owners are good, salf of the earth people (not these violent, scared hotheads that sometimes they get labeled) and I trust them to have guns around me much more than I want some violent thug to have them and feel empowered because he's the only with them.

post #121 of 354
Quote:
Originally Posted by bshalcomb View Post
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by MS256 View Post


It would be ironical (in a whole lot of ways) if I came down on the anti-gun side of any argument but I don't believe in pulling a gun in the hopes of de-escalating a threat. If I ever pull a gun it will be because I feel either my life or somebody else's life is in imminent danger and the only course is to use deadly force. One guy pulls a gun and the other guy pulls his and then you have a worse situation than a guy with a 9 iron.

So basically if I pull a gun I am going to shoot it.

I'm also skeptical that somebody was so enraged that deadly force was justified and yet a friend stopped him. b5_confused.gif  

Says to me that the guy was just putting on a show and wasn't going to hit anybody with anything.
In retrospect thats probably right. Still came too close for comfort for me. Would i have actually busted him, probably not. Would I have drawn? About 2 more steps and it would have come out had i been armed and he wasnt stopped. When you're put in that situation, you unfortunately don't have the luxury of weighing probability like that. Its a reaction. It must be a reaction. The time you don 't react to a threat or play it down might be the time that threat gets you.

 

 

And yet most police officers have never drawn a weapon on the job, let alone fired it, yet you (and most proponents) seem to suggest it as being your best line of defense when a threat is perceived, whether real or imagined.  

 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gunther View Post
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. Desmond View Post

Before you pull that gun out, think of the consequences of your actions beforehand, and the laws of your State. Take a course that deals with these issues. There is a lot at stake ...
The simple fact is that those with CCL's understand this. Some on this thread admonish as if CCL holders are a bunch of ignorant, knee-jerk criminals. Absolutely the opposite is true. Background checks are required (not always 100% effective, granted), most states require a gun-safety course, and most holders are very familiar with and comfortable around firearms.

There are very few instances where a CCL holder was involved in an unjustified shooting. 82 shootings in Chi last weekend alone, none involved a CCL holder. It just doesn't happen in any meaningful volume, I'd say less than 1%.

 

Yeah.  This is the part that frightens me.  These permit holders who have taken an 8 hour class in HOW to shoot, but have spent little or no time learning WHEN it would be proper or acceptable to do so.  Or when it would even be proper to draw a gun.  It takes four half day class sessions, plus 4 open water dives over multiple days just to get a scuba certification so that you can buy air for a dive - all to ensure that you aren't a threat to yourself.  Yet an 8 hour class is all that's required to allow someone run around with a loaded, concealed firearm, potentially a threat to anyone who gives him a dirty look.  

 

I'm far less concerned with a permit holder's gun skills than I am with his people skills - I'm uncertain that the average guy has the judgement to know when his firearm skills should properly be employed, and when to use reason instead of force.  Having lived in the wild west (Montana and Colorado) since 1964, I know my way around firearms, short and long, but I'd be less certain of my ability to handle a seriously threatening situation correctly.  I have little training in such scenarios (aside from a few hours in basic training 49 years ago), and no 8 hour class focused mostly on gun safety is going to significantly improve my skills along those lines.  Unlike what someone said above, just carrying a weapon doesn't bestow upon the user an instant sense of reason and good judgement.  It may actually, in some cases, make a person less likely to try and avoid a potential confrontation because it falsely gives him the confidence that he is able to handle any situation.  

post #122 of 354
Quote:
Originally Posted by mailman View Post

If someone is swinging an iron around my head the time to draw has already passed.

Oh yeah, if he's swinging an iron around your head, that's a slice waiting to happen. Really hard to get an in-to-out path working with that kind of motion.
post #123 of 354
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fourputt View Post


And yet most police officers have never drawn a weapon on the job, let alone fired it, yet you (and most proponents) seem to suggest it as being your best line of defense when a threat is perceived, whether real or imagined.  

Yeah.  This is the part that frightens me.  These permit holders who have taken an 8 hour class in HOW to shoot, but have spent little or no time learning WHEN it would be proper or acceptable to do so.  Or when it would even be proper to draw a gun.  It takes four half day class sessions, plus 4 open water dives over multiple days just to get a scuba certification so that you can buy air for a dive - all to ensure that you aren't a threat to yourself.  Yet an 8 hour class is all that's required to allow someone run around with a loaded, concealed firearm, potentially a threat to anyone who gives him a dirty look.  

I'm far less concerned with a permit holder's gun skills than I am with his people skills - I'm uncertain that the average guy has the judgement to know when his firearm skills should properly be employed, and when to use reason instead of force.  Having lived in the wild west (Montana and Colorado) since 1964, I know my way around firearms, short and long, but I'd be less certain of my ability to handle a seriously threatening situation correctly.  I have little training in such scenarios (aside from a few hours in basic training 49 years ago), and no 8 hour class focused mostly on gun safety is going to significantly improve my skills along those lines.  Unlike what someone said above, just carrying a weapon doesn't bestow upon the user an instant sense of reason and good judgement.  It may actually, in some cases, make a person less likely to try and avoid a potential confrontation because it falsely gives him the confidence that he is able to handle any situation.  

Regardless your fear or trepidation, the numbers are the numbers. CCL holders do not engage in unjustified shootings often, almost to a minuscule degree so your fears are unwarranted. Indeed, they rarely engage in justified shootings so I think it's fair to assume they are a reasonably educated lot both in terms of gun skills as well as people skills, to use your words.
post #124 of 354
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fourputt View Post

 

Yeah.  This is the part that frightens me.  These permit holders who have taken an 8 hour class in HOW to shoot, but have spent little or no time learning WHEN it would be proper or acceptable to do so.  Or when it would even be proper to draw a gun.  It takes four half day class sessions, plus 4 open water dives over multiple days just to get a scuba certification so that you can buy air for a dive - all to ensure that you aren't a threat to yourself.  Yet an 8 hour class is all that's required to allow someone run around with a loaded, concealed firearm, potentially a threat to anyone who gives him a dirty look.  

 

I'm far less concerned with a permit holder's gun skills than I am with his people skills - I'm uncertain that the average guy has the judgement to know when his firearm skills should properly be employed, and when to use reason instead of force.  Having lived in the wild west (Montana and Colorado) since 1964, I know my way around firearms, short and long, but I'd be less certain of my ability to handle a seriously threatening situation correctly.  I have little training in such scenarios (aside from a few hours in basic training 49 years ago), and no 8 hour class focused mostly on gun safety is going to significantly improve my skills along those lines.  Unlike what someone said above, just carrying a weapon doesn't bestow upon the user an instant sense of reason and good judgement.  It may actually, in some cases, make a person less likely to try and avoid a potential confrontation because it falsely gives him the confidence that he is able to handle any situation.  

 

I agree with that. I would like to more requirements in the courses needed to be taken. This guy I play golf with works at a Gun range in Dayton. They offer a CCW class, and has nothing to do with how to shoot, but the other important things. It is 16 hours on the legal aspects of owning a gun, how to care for and store a gun safely, and moral implications on using a gun in self defense. So there are classes out there that promote what I would recommend become required. I also think anyone who fires a gun, or ends up killing someone should be REQUIRED to go to a psychologist. I believe police officers must go see a psychologist or go to counselling before they are able to return to duty. I think the mental toll of taking a life needs to be part of owning a life. 

 

I disagree with you that guns make people into a vigilante. I do not see people going out and taking justice into their own hands. Most people just want to know they can protect themselves and their loved ones. 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by MS256 View Post
 

 

So basically if I pull a gun I am going to shoot it.

 

 

That is what my golfing buddy told me. He is a gun guy, and has his Conceal Carry. He basically said if he pulls his gun he's going to shoot. He also knows the law and says he gives the person every chance to walk away. He makes it very clear he is standing his ground and will use deadly force. This is done with out drawing his weapon, but he is ready to if need be. 

post #125 of 354
Don't get the idea that all of Northern California is like that, and I'm very thankful that it's not. Where I live, it's a piece of cake to get a concealed carry permit, and that's pretty much the norm throughout the state once you get more than about 75 miles inland from the coast (where the majority of the liberals reside). We've got four gun shops in our town of 25,000 people.

California is a "may issue" state, which leaves the decision up to your local sheriff. Every sheriff around here for at least the past quarter-century has gone on record saying that he will not deny any applicant who passes the background checks.

As for carrying on a course, I've never done it, but the courses I play up here are among the most crime-free places on earth. If I were to play an inner-city course somewhere like Sacramento or Stockton, I'd consider packing. On second thought, I'd almost certainly do it in Stockton.



@ditchparrot19You're absolutely right, and I should've specified Bay Area instead of Northern California. It's funny how the state is so different just an hour or two drive west or south west from where I am. My wife has family down in Hanford and that might as well be Mississippi. (No disrespect to anyone from MS, I know how it is there because I have family there myself) And oh yeah Stockton is off the chain, I would probably feel the need to be packing if I ever played down there myself.
post #126 of 354
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gunther View Post


Regardless your fear or trepidation, the numbers are the numbers. CCL holders do not engage in unjustified shootings often, almost to a minuscule degree so your fears are unwarranted. Indeed, they rarely engage in justified shootings so I think it's fair to assume they are a reasonably educated lot both in terms of gun skills as well as people skills, to use your words.

 

^^This

 

People fear what they don't know. Many people who aren't familiar or comfortable with guns fear them and their legal owners depsite all the evidence to the contrary.

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