or Connect
TheSandTrap.com › Golf Forum › The Clubhouse › Tour Talk › Brandt Snedeker Gets New Instructor: Butch Harmon
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:

Brandt Snedeker Gets New Instructor: Butch Harmon - Page 2

post #19 of 21

How much time do swing coaches like Butch Harmon spend with each player, and often does he have sessions with them? Five seems like quite a handful in terms of having to manage time for each person, in addition to (I think) him teaching other golfers, but I could be totally wrong.

post #20 of 21

Hey Erik...or anyone, do you know anything about sabermetrics in baseball?

 

The putting thing reminds me about batting average.  As you said it is fickle, or there can be a lot of variation from year to year.  Maybe this is more true for rankings on tour than personal stats, i haven't looked into it too much yet....but batting average goes up and down every year and is partially dependant on batting average with balls in play (BABiP)...which is partially to mostly based on luck.

 

But when it comes down to it batting average does not tell very much of the story.  The ability to take walks or hit for extra bases is not portrayed in batting average.  To take those into account you have to look at on-base percentage, slugging percentage, or go more complex with weighted on base average or weighted runs created plus.

 

The whole point is that stats have a way of never answering the whole question and you have to look at the right stats to draw the correct conclusion.  Also, the numbers that people traditionally look at are not always the most important.

 

In baseball people have looked at batting average, homeruns, RBIs, and stolen bases...or errors on defense...as the most important ways to measure the value of a player....which s far from accurate. 

 

Very long-winded, but I see a huge parallel between baseball sabermetrics and golf statistics you can use to get better...and that is a big reason I was pumped to read lowest score wins.

post #21 of 21
Quote:
Originally Posted by westcyderydin View Post
 

Hey Erik...or anyone, do you know anything about sabermetrics in baseball?

 

Yes.

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by westcyderydin View Post
 

The putting thing reminds me about batting average.  As you said it is fickle, or there can be a lot of variation from year to year.  Maybe this is more true for rankings on tour than personal stats, i haven't looked into it too much yet....but batting average goes up and down every year and is partially dependant on batting average with balls in play (BABiP)...which is partially to mostly based on luck.

 

Rankings are particularly volatile, oftentimes, unless they're for things like "GIR" where the stats themselves are somewhat consistent year to year. Putting itself is fickle. Combine the two into RANKING of PUTTING and you have a very fickle statistic.

 

Players can have hot and cold spells with the putter that last a long time, particularly when missing greens can still lead to an improvement of your putting statistics (even strokes gained - because you're chipping, and thus getting a read not only from your ball rolling toward the hole, but also the putts of others in your group who hit the green). And so on. What separates a good putter from a great putter on the PGA Tour is a very slim margin - the ranking is thus fickle.

 

Let's look at what one stroke over the course of a four-round tournament can do. That's 0.25 strokes gained putting per round. It's enough to…

  • Move you from first to ninth.
  • Move you from tenth to 40th.
  • Move you from 50th to 108th.

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by westcyderydin View Post
 

The whole point is that stats have a way of never answering the whole question and you have to look at the right stats to draw the correct conclusion.  Also, the numbers that people traditionally look at are not always the most important.

 

In baseball people have looked at batting average, homeruns, RBIs, and stolen bases...or errors on defense...as the most important ways to measure the value of a player....which s far from accurate. 

 

Very long-winded, but I see a huge parallel between baseball sabermetrics and golf statistics you can use to get better...and that is a big reason I was pumped to read lowest score wins.

 

FWIW Let's take a look at the winners of PGA Tour events in the 2014 season, along with their rank in Putts Gained.

 

Frys.com Open (8)

Shriners (9)

CIMB (60)

WGC-HSBC (78)

McGladrey (49)

OHL Classic (98)

ToC (60)

Sony (8)

Humana (76)

Farmers (136)

Waste Management (176)

Pebble (8)

LA Open (74)

WGC Match (UR)

Honda (41)

Puerto Rico (101)

WGC-Cadillac (76)

Valspar (12)

Arnold Palmer (3)

Valero (180)

Shell (25)

Masters (74)

 

I'll stop there.

 

The average is between 54th and 55th in the world (and Jimmy Walker's three "8"s help quite a bit).

 

The Masters, btw, is a prime example. Everyone loves to say you've got to be a great putter to win at Augusta National, but it's not the case. The guys who win there hit the ball well. They hit lots of greens, reach lots of par fives in two, and so on.

 

Ball striking rules. It too can be fickle, but not nearly as much as putting.

New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:
  Return Home
  Back to Forum: Tour Talk
TheSandTrap.com › Golf Forum › The Clubhouse › Tour Talk › Brandt Snedeker Gets New Instructor: Butch Harmon