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LSW/Shot Zone Question

post #1 of 34
Thread Starter 

I have a question about a particular hole for my decision mapping. Im playing a course tomorrow that I haven't played in a while and Im kinda going through the decision mapping in my head.  The 1st hole is a 315 yard par 4 down hill usually into the wind.  Theres OB left(its gotta be a pretty big pull though but there is scattered trees) the driving range is right(you can be blocked by trees but if its short enough you have a shot). At about 260-270 there are 2 bunker that narrow the fairway from roughly 40-50 yards(before the bunkers) down to about 15-20 yards.  Every time Ive hit a driver I good I end up in the bunker.  My question is to give myself the best potential score should I be hitting a 4w to completely avoid those bunkers but leave myself a 60-75 yard shot? Or do I take the driver and hit like a 75-80% driver to avoid reaching the bunkers?  I am more confident in hitting my driver but I know that the 4w almost completely eliminate the OB or the driving range but that also leave a kind of weird distance. Having read the book I know that closer is better but the 30-40 yard bunker shot is a *&%$# also there is water long n so it make the long bunker shot a little more intimidating than usual. Any suggestions before tomorrow's round would be sweet. 

post #2 of 34
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jakester23 View Post
 

I have a question about a particular hole for my decision mapping. Im playing a course tomorrow that I haven't played in a while and Im kinda going through the decision mapping in my head.  The 1st hole is a 315 yard par 4 down hill usually into the wind.  Theres OB left(its gotta be a pretty big pull though but there is scattered trees) the driving range is right(you can be blocked by trees but if its short enough you have a shot). At about 260-270 there are 2 bunker that narrow the fairway from roughly 40-50 yards(before the bunkers) down to about 15-20 yards.  Every time Ive hit a driver I good I end up in the bunker.  My question is to give myself the best potential score should I be hitting a 4w to completely avoid those bunkers but leave myself a 60-75 yard shot? Or do I take the driver and hit like a 75-80% driver to avoid reaching the bunkers?  I am more confident in hitting my driver but I know that the 4w almost completely eliminate the OB or the driving range but that also leave a kind of weird distance. Having read the book I know that closer is better but the 30-40 yard bunker shot is a *&%$# also there is water long n so it make the long bunker shot a little more intimidating than usual. Any suggestions before tomorrow's round would be sweet. 

I'd go with the 4w.  Long bunkers do really stink, and given the trouble you listed, leaving 75yds instead of 50yds should be fine.  Although only you can really know, because if you are confident about your shot zones, the answer should just pop out.  But if it were me, yes I'd lay it short, because its the first tee shot of the day and there may be jitters or you may not be fully warmed up.

post #3 of 34
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jakester23 View Post
 

I have a question about a particular hole for my decision mapping. Im playing a course tomorrow that I haven't played in a while and Im kinda going through the decision mapping in my head.  The 1st hole is a 315 yard par 4 down hill usually into the wind.  Theres OB left(its gotta be a pretty big pull though but there is scattered trees) the driving range is right(you can be blocked by trees but if its short enough you have a shot). At about 260-270 there are 2 bunker that narrow the fairway from roughly 40-50 yards(before the bunkers) down to about 15-20 yards.  Every time Ive hit a driver I good I end up in the bunker.  My question is to give myself the best potential score should I be hitting a 4w to completely avoid those bunkers but leave myself a 60-75 yard shot? Or do I take the driver and hit like a 75-80% driver to avoid reaching the bunkers?  I am more confident in hitting my driver but I know that the 4w almost completely eliminate the OB or the driving range but that also leave a kind of weird distance. Having read the book I know that closer is better but the 30-40 yard bunker shot is a *&%$# also there is water long n so it make the long bunker shot a little more intimidating than usual. Any suggestions before tomorrow's round would be sweet. 


I would just learn to hit 50 yards out of a fairway bunker. :-)

 

The alternatives you are talking about leave you 100 yards on a relatively short hole. We have a bunker laden hole, the best way to hit is along the yellow line. If you go a few degrees either way, you end up about a wedge away. I've played this hole at least a dozen times with roughly the same results, the 272 yards is only to show that a longer shot is not an issue. My average drive is about 245 yards which is enough to land a 60 degree away on this hole which is about 304 yards total.

 

 

There is always a way around trouble other than losing distance.

post #4 of 34
Quote:
Originally Posted by phillyk View Post
 

I'd go with the 4w.  Long bunkers do really stink, and given the trouble you listed, leaving 75yds instead of 50yds should be fine.  Although only you can really know, because if you are confident about your shot zones, the answer should just pop out.  But if it were me, yes I'd lay it short, because its the first tee shot of the day and there may be jitters or you may not be fully warmed up.

Agree.  The shot zones will make it easy on you, but barring those ... the 4w seems like the obvious choice.

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lihu View Post
 


There is always a way around trouble other than losing distance.

Ummm, no there isn't.  Sometimes there may be, but more often than not, if there is trouble that falls in your shot zone, then the way around it is going to be to take less club.  (Unless you were being a weenie in the first place and considering less club, in which case the answer might be more club. ;-))

post #5 of 34
Thread Starter 

Lihu if I followed your line on my hole driver right would be in a little creek probably starts on back right corner of bunker(forgot about that since I'm always in the left bunker or behind a tree in the driving range since I miss hit my driver). I would like to learn the 50 yard bunker shot but I don't have a range that allows for it that I know of.

 

Quote:Golfingdad
Agree.  The shot zones will make it easy on you, but barring those ... the 4w seems like the obvious choice.

Thats kinda what I thought I have never hit the 4w at that course since I didn't have it last year. Also I used to lay up with my hybrid (if I layer up) to get a 100 yard shot but after reading this book I realized thats the incorrect play.

post #6 of 34

Ordered and waiting for it to arrive.  I cannot wait to read through this book!!

post #7 of 34
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jakester23 View Post

Lihu if I followed your line on my hole driver right would be in a little creek probably starts on back right corner of bunker(forgot about that since I'm always in the left bunker or behind a tree in the driving range since I miss hit my driver). I would like to learn the 50 yard bunker shot but I don't have a range that allows for it that I know of.

Thats kinda what I thought I have never hit the 4w at that course since I didn't have it last year. Also I used to lay up with my hybrid (if I layer up) to get a 100 yard shot but after reading this book I realized thats the incorrect play.
A 50 yard fairway bunker shot is not that different than any other half to 3/4 lob wedge shot. I guess I spend a lot of time using this wedge.

I'm less confident about my 4H/3H distances, so the approach shot is less certain especially with water behind the green.
post #8 of 34
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lihu View Post

A 50 yard fairway bunker shot is not that different than any other half to 3/4 lob wedge shot. I guess I spend a lot of time using this wedge.
If that's the case for you I'm very jealous. I don't play many courses that have enough of them where I find myself hitting that shot often. I would say I've probably hit only one 30-50 yard bunker shot this season in about 20 rounds. Also tthere is a little room long but a thin flyer bunker shot is dead. A shot from the fairway would be more difficult to hit into the water unless you really thinned it. The green is sloped back to front a bit. It's a simple but deceiving opening hole.
post #9 of 34
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lihu View Post

A 50 yard fairway bunker shot is not that different than any other half to 3/4 lob wedge shot. I guess I spend a lot of time using this wedge.

 

Totally incorrect. The long bunker shot should be avoided at almost all costs.

post #10 of 34
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jakester23 View Post


If that's the case for you I'm very jealous. I don't play many courses that have enough of them where I find myself hitting that shot often. I would say I've probably hit only one 30-50 yard bunker shot this season in about 20 rounds. Also tthere is a little room long but a thin flyer bunker shot is dead. A shot from the fairway would be more difficult to hit into the water unless you really thinned it. The green is sloped back to front a bit. It's a simple but deceiving opening hole.

 

Do you have a picture or an overview of the hole? I would just want to use the shortest and highest club in my bag with the most spin if there were a hazard behind the green.

 

Let us know what approach works for you tomorrow. :-)

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by iacas View Post
 

 

Totally incorrect. The long bunker shot should be avoided at almost all costs.

 

50 yards just did not sound that much to me, as the bunkers where I mostly play are pretty shallow and firm.

 

I can see if they are soft and deep, I might have to even hit in any direction just to get it out.

 

 

 

EDIT: I'm totally wrong, which explains why I end up just trying to get it out and close to the green.

 


Edited by Lihu - 7/19/14 at 12:06am
post #11 of 34
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jakester23 View Post
 

Lihu if I followed your line on my hole driver right would be in a little creek probably starts on back right corner of bunker(forgot about that since I'm always in the left bunker or behind a tree in the driving range since I miss hit my driver). I would like to learn the 50 yard bunker shot but I don't have a range that allows for it that I know of.

 

Thats kinda what I thought I have never hit the 4w at that course since I didn't have it last year. Also I used to lay up with my hybrid (if I layer up) to get a 100 yard shot but after reading this book I realized thats the incorrect play.

Laying back specifically to get to a favorite yardage is definitely the incorrect play, but laying back can oftentimes be the correct play.  @Lihu might be the only person on the planet who likes 50 yard bunker shots, because those are definitely something I will avoid at all costs.  And "at all costs" in this case would certainly include 40 yards. :-P

 

The chances of my ending up closer to the pin from 50 yards in a bunker versus 100 yards in a fairway are slim.

post #12 of 34
Quote:
Originally Posted by Golfingdad View Post
 

Laying back specifically to get to a favorite yardage is definitely the incorrect play, but laying back can oftentimes be the correct play.  @Lihu might be the only person on the planet who likes 50 yard bunker shots, because those are definitely something I will avoid at all costs.  And "at all costs" in this case would certainly include 40 yards. :-P

 

The chances of my ending up closer to the pin from 50 yards in a bunker versus 100 yards in a fairway are slim.


Yeah, so my 50 yard bunkers are probably not as bad as yours. On the other hand the one in the Callaway video does not look that bad either.

 

I spend a lot of time in bunkers. :8)Plus, I'm a bogey golfer, one extra stroke isn't going to kill my entire round. So, stop picking on me @Golfingdad

post #13 of 34
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Golfingdad View Post

Laying back specifically to get to a favorite yardage is definitely the incorrect play, but laying back can oftentimes be the correct play.  @Lihu
 might be the only person on the planet who likes 50 yard bunker shots, because those are definitely something I will avoid at all costs.  And "at all costs" in this case would certainly include 40 yards. b2_tongue.gif

The chances of my ending up closer to the pin from 50 yards in a bunker versus 100 yards in a fairway are slim.
That's exactly why I thought wanted to do something different. I don't think I've ever hit it close laying back with a hybrid. I know I've never done well out of the bunkers. I did play there early this year (completely forgot) and hit a driver but it was cold and into the wind so the bunkers weren't really in play. I'm going to give the 4w a go and let you know what happens.
post #14 of 34
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lihu View Post
 

Plus, I'm a bogey golfer, one extra stroke isn't going to kill my entire round. So, stop picking on me @Golfingdad

 

Fractions of a stroke, multiplied by 18 holes, add up to real strokes very, very, very quickly.

post #15 of 34

@Lihu 

 

Finish reading the book.  You are an engineer and will fully appreciate the analysis.  The Building Your Game Plan section fully defines how you plan out you approach to each hole.

post #16 of 34
Quote:
Originally Posted by boogielicious View Post
 

@Lihu 

 

Finish reading the book.  You are an engineer and will fully appreciate the analysis.  The Building Your Game Plan section fully defines how you plan out you approach to each hole.

 

I'm not quite ready for the rest of the book yet. Still working on my swing and ball striking.

 

Yes, I agree with everything everyone has been stating. Besides my inferior swing and ball striking, I lose 4 or 5 strokes from just doing stupid things (so stupid they are not even addressed by the book) near or on the green.

post #17 of 34
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lihu View Post

 

I'm not quite ready for the rest of the book yet. Still working on my swing and ball striking.

 

Yes you are. Read the rest of the book. You're costing yourself shots by not doing so now. Section three discusses the game you have NOW. The book doesn't "build" to that section.

post #18 of 34
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lihu View Post
 

 

I'm not quite ready for the rest of the book yet. Still working on my swing and ball striking.

 

Yes, I agree with everything everyone has been stating. Besides my inferior swing and ball striking, I lose 4 or 5 strokes from just doing stupid things (so stupid they are not even addressed by the book) near or on the green.

 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by iacas View Post
 

 

Yes you are. Read the rest of the book. You're costing yourself shots by not doing so now. Section three discusses the game you have NOW. The book doesn't "build" to that section.

Agree.  The proper way to read the book is the read it in its entirety first.  Then go back to specific sections.  Each section is somewhat independent of the other.  The last section could almost be read first and it will help you immediately.  

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