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Dick's Sporting Goods Fires In-Store Golf Pros - Page 15

post #253 of 266

Spitfisher - I wonder if it is due to the differing economic situations but here in Vancouver, BC golf seems to be some what healthy.

 

There is a waiting list of 8 years for full play men at the Capilano Golf & Country Club and the initiation fee is around $90,000 give or take $10,000.

 

My club has a waiting list of 30 for our full play men but we will go thru that this winter with the expected attrition. What is interesting is that the waiting list for our intermediate men category (21 to 35 year old) is also full.

post #254 of 266
The club I belong to has the highest membership ever. We have anger 100 guys that are a 5 handicap or better.
post #255 of 266
Quote:
Originally Posted by imsys0042 View Post


There's a fundamental disconnect between results and reality in most companies. You can spin anything.

I actually was more pissed about this issue and walked back from that. I started off wanting to yank the two TM clubs out of my bag because it ticks me off the way they do business and then I came back from that. I'm tired of generalizing about issues and taking the "never shopping there again approach". I work for a company a lot of people hate, but there are a lot of good people where I work. So I feel the other side of it I guess.

If you hit clubs well then you shouldn't yank them out of your bag in protest unless your so motivated to do so.  Every company has good employees and in todays job market, people can't be so choosey as to decide whether or not to take a job because you agree / disagree with their business ethics.   It is unfortunate that good people working for questionable companies get hurt in the process but if we don't vote with our money, there's no way to initiate change in a capitalistic society unless the business breaks some laws.

 

I think voting with the dollar works pretty well.

 

TM was not the first to have a white driver, nor were they the first to use adjustable weights in their drivers or add slots to their clubs but if you listen to King, they take credit for all the technical innovation.

 

TM had booming sales thanks to their outstanding marketing of white drivers.  People got wise to their hype and stopped buying the latest and greatest TM club, the result is lower revenue and profits compared to their boom years.  King knows his butt is on the line and rather than admit that he took TM and others (Dick's) on a wild rollercoaster ride he's become  an evangelist for no-rules golf and is blaming the industry, golfers that follow the rules, the USGA, the PGA and anyone else he can for golf not creating more customers for his amazing products. 

 

In the end we as individuals have to decide if King is really pro golf or pro TM and pro King.  If you think King is good for golf then there's no reason to not buy his products unless you just don't like them.  If you want to send a message to Adidas that King is bad for golf, you don't buy the products he's associated with.  I personally don't like King and won't buy any Adidas / TM products until he's fired, but that's just me.

post #256 of 266
Quote:
Originally Posted by newtogolf View Post
 

If you hit clubs well then you shouldn't yank them out of your bag in protest unless your so motivated to do so.  Every company has good employees and in today's job market, people can't be so choosey as to decide whether or not to take a job because you agree / disagree with their business ethics.   It is unfortunate that good people working for questionable companies get hurt in the process but if we don't vote with our money, there's no way to initiate change in a capitalistic society unless the business breaks some laws.

 

I think voting with the dollar works pretty well.

 

TM was not the first to have a white driver, nor were they the first to use adjustable weights in their drivers or add slots to their clubs but if you listen to King, they take credit for all the technical innovation.

 

TM had booming sales thanks to their outstanding marketing of white drivers.  People got wise to their hype and stopped buying the latest and greatest TM club, the result is lower revenue and profits compared to their boom years.  King knows his butt is on the line and rather than admit that he took TM and others (Dick's) on a wild rollercoaster ride he's become  an evangelist for no-rules golf and is blaming the industry, golfers that follow the rules, the USGA, the PGA and anyone else he can for golf not creating more customers for his amazing products. 

 

In the end we as individuals have to decide if King is really pro golf or pro TM and pro King.  If you think King is good for golf then there's no reason to not buy his products unless you just don't like them.  If you want to send a message to Adidas that King is bad for golf, you don't buy the products he's associated with.  I personally don't like King and won't buy any Adidas / TM products until he's fired, but that's just me.

They (TM) never ever claimed to be the first to have a white or rainbow colored driver.- fact

They were the first company to offer a driver with multiple & movable and different weights on a driver that changed shot shape - fact

Highllighted above- speculation, nonsense, ill informed opinion and just incorrect, I know this first hand about Mr King.

Mr King was promoted months ago to oversee Adidas, not taylormade, not Adidas golf....all of Adidas group North America.

Mark King had been with taylormade for almost 35 years, with exception of 18 months with callaway, He knows more about the marketing of golf, retail and wholesale than many of us.

 

Your description above of King paints an incorrect picture of him and his responsibilities. His primary responsibilities are to increase value to his shareholders. He does this by speaking like any other CEO. King has nothing to do with innovation, driver paint jobs and slotted irons-or marketing and R and D for that matter.  that would be Benoit Vincent. Chief Technical Officer - another brilliant man.

post #257 of 266
Quote:
Originally Posted by Spitfisher View Post
 

They (TM) never ever claimed to be the first to have a white or rainbow colored driver.- fact

They were the first company to offer a driver with multiple & movable and different weights on a driver that changed shot shape - fact

Highllighted above- speculation, nonsense, ill informed opinion and just incorrect, I know this first hand about Mr King.

Mr King was promoted months ago to oversee Adidas, not taylormade, not Adidas golf....all of Adidas group North America.

Mark King had been with taylormade for almost 35 years, with exception of 18 months with callaway, He knows more about the marketing of golf, retail and wholesale than many of us.

 

Your description above of King paints an incorrect picture of him and his responsibilities. His primary responsibilities are to increase value to his shareholders. He does this by speaking like any other CEO. King has nothing to do with innovation, driver paint jobs and slotted irons-or marketing and R and D for that matter.  that would be Benoit Vincent. Chief Technical Officer - another brilliant man.

King was always careful to not claim TM innovated the white head, but in some interviews he makes it seem like they might have

Quote:
The concept of having a white club head was broached. Our Ghost line of putters are white and have received glowing reviews,” said King.  “But, a white driver club head?” I inquired.  “There was a risk,” King said. “We had a lot to lose. What if the industry balked at the idea? So, we tested the white R11 with our staff and retailers. The feedback was strong. Our Tour staff felt the white club head helped with alignment and our retailers felt the combination of R11’s technology and untraditional white coloring would be a game changer for sales.”
 

 

As for weights in the head, Mizuno was one of the first I'm aware of with their MP-630.  While Mizuno claimed the weights were to tune the driver to the golfers swing, the concept is similar to TM.

 

So you claim King's motivation for Hack Golf are not motivated to improve sales for TM but some altruistic effort on his part only and he hasn't spoken out against the USGA and PGA?.  So King didn't actually say;

Quote:
In short, King told The Telegraph newspaper in England that the anchoring ban is nonsensical, urged the tours to break away from the USGA and even predicted that the USGA will become a non-factor within a decade.  "The anchoring ban makes no sense to me at all," said King, whose company owns TaylorMade, adidas Golf, Ashworth apparel, Adams Golf and putter maker Yes! Golf. "If I were running the PGA of America, I would write my own set of rules. I'd do it with the PGA Tour. The industry needs to come together without the USGA. Leave them out."

I'm okay with you defending King, but don't tell me what I've read or heard from King.  You can buy all the TM products you like, I on the other hand won't give Adidas a dime.

post #258 of 266
Quote:
Originally Posted by ay33660 View Post

Got it now.

I do see the other side. Thank you for pointing it out.

I have been lucky so far in my business life as I have been an owner of my company since I was in my early thirties.

I can see that a lot of times the employees of corporations could actually disagree with the direction taken by senior management but have very little to say about changing it.

Sorry I didn't mean to come off like an ass. I suspect that there may be some parallels with the staff at my business!

No worries. Not at all. I exist in a sea of ass and would hardly qualify you at all like that.
post #259 of 266
Quote:
Originally Posted by Spitfisher View Post
 

They (TM) never ever claimed to be the first to have a white or rainbow colored driver.- fact

They were the first company to offer a driver with multiple & movable and different weights on a driver that changed shot shape - fact

Highllighted above- speculation, nonsense, ill informed opinion and just incorrect, I know this first hand about Mr King.

Mr King was promoted months ago to oversee Adidas, not taylormade, not Adidas golf....all of Adidas group North America.

Mark King had been with taylormade for almost 35 years, with exception of 18 months with callaway, He knows more about the marketing of golf, retail and wholesale than many of us.

 

Your description above of King paints an incorrect picture of him and his responsibilities. His primary responsibilities are to increase value to his shareholders. He does this by speaking like any other CEO. King has nothing to do with innovation, driver paint jobs and slotted irons-or marketing and R and D for that matter.  that would be Benoit Vincent. Chief Technical Officer - another brilliant man.

 

I respect that you like him and thinks he walks on water but you also have to respect that he comes across as an huge pompous ass to me and based on this forum to others too.

 

I got tired of King's slagging of the USGA and blaming everything under the sun for his perceived demise of golf.

 

So I get to vote with my spending dollars  ....  no more Adidas and TM for me.


Edited by ay33660 - 9/1/14 at 6:36pm
post #260 of 266

last time I went into Dick's it was for a kayak

post #261 of 266

after reading 10 pages I gave up trying to read the entire thread..I feel sorry for the Pros who lost jobs..know what that feels like.I feel amny of the posts/opinions about economics are spot-on...here's why: http://www.turfnet.com/page/news.html/_/construction-play-number-of-golfers-decline-in-2013-r249

 

you can't have one slip and not the other..they are tied together. I don't recall hearing many stand up against Walmart when they drove hundreds of Mom/Pop stores out..and they did very effectively. I grew up when ALL stores were retail specific; clothes,furniture,jewelry,food,etc..now most are under one roof.I am all in favor of saving $$,and I will continue to buy ONLINE so I can get the most for my budget. I never buy new clubs,buy bottom end bags,and even buy pre-owned clothes/shoes for golf.. I wore hand-me-downs my entire childhood up thru high school, and have no problem in that category. I'm retired on a fixed income,but I'm better off than my kids/grandkids will be when they're old enough to retire. As for the PGA, I took lessons from a youngster right out of the Academy in Fla, at my local course.....he told me all about what it costs to be a PGA Pro...seems as tho,at least to me, they're outta sight in how many thousands of dollars it takes EACH MEMBER/EACH YEAR to retain the status....not sure THAT'S helping the Pro, but they are the ones who were most effected by Dicks decision,so I'll leave that to them. read the article and see whats' ahead......

post #262 of 266
Quote:
Originally Posted by WilsonWedgeMan View Post
 

after reading 10 pages I gave up trying to read the entire thread..I feel sorry for the Pros who lost jobs..know what that feels like.I feel amny of the posts/opinions about economics are spot-on...here's why: http://www.turfnet.com/page/news.html/_/construction-play-number-of-golfers-decline-in-2013-r249

 

you can't have one slip and not the other..they are tied together. I don't recall hearing many stand up against Walmart when they drove hundreds of Mom/Pop stores out..and they did very effectively. I grew up when ALL stores were retail specific; clothes,furniture,jewelry,food,etc..now most are under one roof.I am all in favor of saving $$,and I will continue to buy ONLINE so I can get the most for my budget. I never buy new clubs,buy bottom end bags,and even buy pre-owned clothes/shoes for golf.. I wore hand-me-downs my entire childhood up thru high school, and have no problem in that category. I'm retired on a fixed income,but I'm better off than my kids/grandkids will be when they're old enough to retire. As for the PGA, I took lessons from a youngster right out of the Academy in Fla, at my local course.....he told me all about what it costs to be a PGA Pro...seems as tho,at least to me, they're outta sight in how many thousands of dollars it takes EACH MEMBER/EACH YEAR to retain the status....not sure THAT'S helping the Pro, but they are the ones who were most effected by Dicks decision,so I'll leave that to them. read the article and see whats' ahead......

It would be interesting to see what the source of those numbers are and what the definition of "golfer" is and what their definition of "rounds" is.  Is rounds the number of rounds paid for or number of rounds recorded for handicap?  Is a golfer someone who played 1 round a year or someone who played 20 rounds a year?

 

Part of the problem with these stats is the top numbers from the 90's was largely due to the fact that many upscale housing developments included golf courses as part of the development.  People that bought houses on the course were granted full or partial membership to the course regardless of whether they played.  Some of the neighborhoods that had public courses built for them and closed did so because demographics of the neighborhood changed.

 

I don't doubt that the number of golfers has declined since the 90's for all the reasons we've discussed here.  What I don't think we know for sure is what the actual numbers were and are.

post #263 of 266
Quote:
Originally Posted by newtogolf View Post
 

It would be interesting to see what the source of those numbers are and what the definition of "golfer" is and what their definition of "rounds" is.  Is rounds the number of rounds paid for or number of rounds recorded for handicap?  Is a golfer someone who played 1 round a year or someone who played 20 rounds a year?

 

Part of the problem with these stats is the top numbers from the 90's was largely due to the fact that many upscale housing developments included golf courses as part of the development.  People that bought houses on the course were granted full or partial membership to the course regardless of whether they played.  Some of the neighborhoods that had public courses built for them and closed did so because demographics of the neighborhood changed.

 

I don't doubt that the number of golfers has declined since the 90's for all the reasons we've discussed here.  What I don't think we know for sure is what the actual numbers were and are.

those figures are from 2014,as far as decline of courses go....not the 90s..... courses are closing to an astronomical rate compared to those openning. anytime you lose 10 fold in 1 year,the signs aren't good.

post #264 of 266
Quote:
Originally Posted by WilsonWedgeMan View Post
 

those figures are from 2014,as far as decline of courses go....not the 90s..... courses are closing to an astronomical rate compared to those openning. anytime you lose 10 fold in 1 year,the signs aren't good.

 

Yeah, the picture in the article looked pretty depressing. The sign looks brand new, while the tee box and fairways are getting overgrown.

 

The scenery looks outstanding, so they might want to open up the gates to dog walkers and hikers. They would make really nice parks for kids and dogs to run their bikes and scooters. The old cart paths could be maintained by the cities to a lesser degree than when they were used for golf.

post #265 of 266
Quote:
Originally Posted by newtogolf View Post
 

Part of the problem with these stats is the top numbers from the 90's was largely due to the fact that many upscale housing developments included golf courses as part of the development.  People that bought houses on the course were granted full or partial membership to the course regardless of whether they played.  Some of the neighborhoods that had public courses built for them and closed did so because demographics of the neighborhood changed.

 

 

Bingo to me this is the biggest reason for golf courses closing.

 

In the 1990's and early 2000's a lot of golf courses (Arizona and Florida) were being built to sell real estate. They were not being built purely because of golfing demands.

 

Real estate tanks and the golf course built to sell the real estate closes.

post #266 of 266

Saw a rather miserable case of the whole golf course designed to sell real estate thing last weekend. Nice, interesting (if somewhat tricked up) layout, with houses mostly on the back nine. The funny thing is that there were several gaps between houses where the real estate never did sell. The course is suffering and the greens were among the worst I've ever played.

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