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One And Done! PGA Announces Long Drive Competition at last major at Valhalla - Page 2

post #19 of 57
Quote:
Originally Posted by 03SMURF View Post
 

There really isn't much in common between long drive and real golf other than a ball and a club.

 

 

Agree

 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by 03SMURF View Post
 

I bet the longest driver on tour wouldn't finish inside the top 10 in the Remax World finals. Also, have you guys noticed how much roll the pro's have been getting? That bomb Rory hit the other week appeared to be downhill, downwind, and rolled 100yds. Give a pro a 5* driver and tell him to swing out of his shoes and I bet he has trouble hitting the grid. Pro long drive guys are in the 150mph clubhead speed range with one guy being recorded at 161mph. JB Holmes has the fastest avg swing speed on tour at 125 mph. Two questions now: How much of a threat is JB Holmes considered on tour? and does anyone think these tour pros are capable of 35mph more club head speed than their 115 mph avg?

 

 

Disagree. The long drive fairways are very wide. The pros have much better swings than the long drive guys, so they would have more balls inside the grid imo. 50 inch driver shaft, 4 inch tees, tour quality swing, and 60 yard wide fairway and I am guessing you get 3, 4, or maybe 5 balls in that wide of a fairway. 

 

From there you have to think of contact. The pros make better contact than these guys, again, imo. A guy who hits 330 yards with a 45 inch driver and regular tee might hit 400+ swinging into a 60 yard wide fairway with the long shaft, long tees, and a ball made for only one type of shot. 

 

Let's go the other way. Put a long drive guy out on tour and ask him to just hit a 30 yard wide fairway with a 45 inch club. How many does he land in the fairway and how far does he hit it? I thjink the tour pro beats him in these conditions.

 

Just my personal opinion. 

post #20 of 57
Quote:
Originally Posted by 9iron View Post
 

 

 

Agree

 

 

 

 

Disagree. The long drive fairways are very wide. The pros have much better swings than the long drive guys, so they would have more balls inside the grid imo. 50 inch driver shaft, 4 inch tees, tour quality swing, and 60 yard wide fairway and I am guessing you get 3, 4, or maybe 5 balls in that wide of a fairway. 

 

From there you have to think of contact. The pros make better contact than these guys, again, imo. A guy who hits 330 yards with a 45 inch driver and regular tee might hit 400+ swinging into a 60 yard wide fairway with the long shaft, long tees, and a ball made for only one type of shot. 

 

Let's go the other way. Put a long drive guy out on tour and ask him to just hit a 30 yard wide fairway with a 45 inch club. How many does he land in the fairway and how far does he hit it? I thjink the tour pro beats him in these conditions.

 

Just my personal opinion. 

on the other hand, it is plainly evident to the observer that long drivers have longer carry more often than not, compared to golf course and pga pros.

 

You have undulating fairways, downhill rolls etc on the golf course.

 

The target field at the long drive events ought to be about-flat terrain, so rolls and effect of downhill isn't so accentuated.

 

Though sometimes the field has uneven hardness, which seems to give different rollout at the edges of the field (less golf ball impact at the edges, so it's more fresh ground presumably)

post #21 of 57

late, have you ever noticed at the Remax World Championship they seem to hit from some totally elevated area? How high I do not know, but it seems really high. They pretty much do everything possible except stick a wind machine behind those guys to make the ball go as far as possible. 

post #22 of 57

I like the concept of this, making it part of the practice round should the pro wish to give it a rip when they get to the 10th hole. Gives every pro in the field (or those playing a practice round) the opportunity of just one drive - swing a-hole to elbow at it - then continue your round. In other words, it's not a separate event where I would imagine most (or at least a lot) pros would just skip.

 

Also, it's just one swing. So there's no claims of it messing up their timing or whatever.

post #23 of 57
Quote:
Originally Posted by 9iron View Post

 

Plus, the golf channel had a few of those guys on that Playing With the Pros show and they shot about 10 over for 9 holes.

To be fair, long drive is not golf. The discipline requires them to hit a golf ball really far, not get it in the hole in as little strokes as possible. For anyone who competes in long drive professionally, practicing a bunch of skills that are absolutely essential to playing good golf would kind of be a waste of time.

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by 9iron View Post

 

The pros have much better swings than the long drive guys, so they would have more balls inside the grid imo. 50 inch driver shaft, 4 inch tees, tour quality swing, and 60 yard wide fairway and I am guessing you get 3, 4, or maybe 5 balls in that wide of a fairway.

I disagree with you. You need some pretty good technique to swing a club 150mph. There are a number of reasons why they seem to spray it all over the place, and it's not because they have inferior technique (because you can't hit a ball 350yd with bad technique). Also, 48" max shaft length.

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by 9iron View Post

 

From there you have to think of contact. The pros make better contact than these guys, again, imo. A guy who hits 330 yards with a 45 inch driver and regular tee might hit 400+ swinging into a 60 yard wide fairway with the long shaft, long tees, and a ball made for only one type of shot.

Again, you can't hit a ball that far without good contact. I think you're seriously overestimating the effect of equipment. Besides, shorter drivers are easier to control, which means they're easier to consistently hit on the sweet spot. 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by 9iron View Post

 

Let's go the other way. Put a long drive guy out on tour and ask him to just hit a 30 yard wide fairway with a 45 inch club. How many does he land in the fairway and how far does he hit it? I thjink the tour pro beats him in these conditions.

http://www.golf.com/tour-and-news/long-drive-champion-blasts-it-past-pga-tours-longest-hitters

 

It's a 47" driver, 6.5°, which is significantly harder to hit well than the average driver.

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by 9iron View Post
 

late, have you ever noticed at the Remax World Championship they seem to hit from some totally elevated area? How high I do not know, but it seems really high. They pretty much do everything possible except stick a wind machine behind those guys to make the ball go as far as possible. 

I hope you're not insinuating that their drives are "juiced."

post #24 of 57
Can't really quote all that with this iPhone, but in short..

I think the point still stands that the pros have much better technique than te long drive boys.. Bill your response can't be you're wrong the long drive boys have technique? The point was that the the pros are better and it wasn't that the long boys don't have any technique, so I think you either tell him that he is wrong about the pros having better technique and justify or disagree with other parts of the argument.

Also, in terms of contact I think 9iron is right on as well... I mean think about it with an area that is so large for these long drive guys and most are lucky when they get 2 out of 6 in play.. No one is saying that they never make good contact, but more often than not thy don't and this point is very hard to argue against in my opinion..

Finally the example you gave is of 1 person.. Basically the elite of the long drivers.. You can't take the exception and make a rule out of it.. The general rule really is that these long drive guys will not be able to hit the fairway as often as the pros using the pro specs.. Their swings are just not built for it, it really is built for a hit it miss... They swing out of their shoes with the hopes that they hit 1-6 in play...

Sorry for the lack of quoting it would have just been so tough with iPhone!
post #25 of 57
@Abu3baid, I'm on my phone and I'm going to bed, so this is going to be pretty short. I just don't want you to think I'm not giving your post enough consideration.

1. Long drive != PGA Tour golf. Completely different set of skills. There are those who would argue that long drivers have the most efficient swings, in terms of energy transfer to the ball.

He suggested that LDA guys' swings can't hold water compared to PGA Tour players, and that's just not true.

2. I said before that there are reasons they aren't that accurate, and I'll break them down another time if you really want me to. For now, let's just say that they can dial their swings down and hit fairways when they have to (and Still a pretty long way).

Think of a professional tennis player. Their first serves are usually a decent amount faster than their second serves. Why? Because on their first serve, they're going for an ace, but the second serve requires them to put it in play.

3. He said take a long driver, so I did (well, not me, personally, but the PGA). And he hit all of his fairways with a harder to hit club, on a real golf hole with rough, bunkers, valleys and other obstacles. And he did it against Bubba, DJ, and JB Holmes. So, if you're going to criticize my long drive guy as an anomaly, what about your PGA Tour guys?

Oh, and long drive drivers are conforming clubs. So nothing is stopping a PGA Tour player from using it.

Guess that wasn't as short as I thought it was going to be.
post #26 of 57
Quote:
Originally Posted by 9iron View Post
 

late, have you ever noticed at the Remax World Championship they seem to hit from some totally elevated area? How high I do not know, but it seems really high. They pretty much do everything possible except stick a wind machine behind those guys to make the ball go as far as possible. 

 

Does not look elevated to me: 

 

Only elevated ones I have seen are those demonstrations done at stadiums. And wind machines? Come on.

post #27 of 57
Quote:
Originally Posted by luu5 View Post
 

 

Does not look elevated to me: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tHLuSWvIjVw

 

Only elevated ones I have seen are those demonstrations done at stadiums. And wind machines? Come on.

In his defense, some of them are elevated, like this one. I think it's a bit silly to dub that as a "world record" when he's that high off the ground, but hey, I don't make the rules. I do find it pretty amusing how amped these guys (and announcers) get, though.

 

 


Edited by Grndslmhttr3 - 7/25/14 at 4:07am
post #28 of 57
Quote:
Originally Posted by Grndslmhttr3 View Post
 

In his defense, some of them are elevated, like this one. I think it's a bit silly to dub that as a "world record" when he's that high off the ground, but hey, I don't make the rules. I do find it pretty amusing how amped these guys (and announcers) get, though.

 

As I said:

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by luu5 View Post
 

Only elevated ones I have seen are those demonstrations done at stadiums. And wind machines? Come on.

 

I agree about "amped" though. But I guess in most sports (in USA especially) some sort of over testosterone/adrenaline thing is norm.

 

As long drivers themselves say:

Quote:
The adrenaline-drenched RE/MAX WLDC Finals have been described as “golf’s greatest 
spectacle.” 

 

post #29 of 57
Quote:
Originally Posted by luu5 View Post
 

 

Does not look elevated to me: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tHLuSWvIjVw

 

Only elevated ones I have seen are those demonstrations done at stadiums. And wind machines? Come on.

 

 

This DOES look elevated, though, and this is what I was referring to. Las Vegas Motor Speedway. Go to the 40 second mark, or the 1:20 mark opr the 1:55 mark. Clearly appears elevated to me. He is way up in the stands hitting that ball at 1:55 mark. 

 

http://www.golfchannel.com/media/highlights-burke-wins-remax-long-drive-championship/

 

And I did not say they used wind machines. I said they did everything but that, and the elevation shown here which I believe I have proved they do use is an example that they do basically create distance where it would not exist in the normal game of golf.

post #30 of 57
Quote:
Originally Posted by billchao View Post

 

 

I disagree with you. You need some pretty good technique to swing a club 150mph. There are a number of reasons why they seem to spray it all over the place, and it's not because they have inferior technique (because you can't hit a ball 350yd with bad technique). Also, 48" max shaft length.

 

 

Absolutely. Swing speed is very much related to handicap. Given there are other aspects, but still, to hit the ball far you must have a technically sound swing. I agree, I think a lot of their mishits come from the fact they are swinging at 100%, they use a very long golf club. Heck if you have 5 chances to for one ball to win you the Long Drive Championship, why not let it rip. 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Abu3baid View Post

Can't really quote all that with this iPhone, but in short..

I think the point still stands that the pros have much better technique than te long drive boys.. Bill your response can't be you're wrong the long drive boys have technique? The point was that the the pros are better and it wasn't that the long boys don't have any technique, so I think you either tell him that he is wrong about the pros having better technique and justify or disagree with other parts of the argument.
 

 

 

Probably not as much as you think. I would say if a Long Drive player tons down the swing, and uses a 44-45" shaft then they would increase their accuracy a lot. Ball speed is still king when it comes to long distance. If ball speed = Club Head speed x Smash Factor (Contact), then they still have to be VERY good at putting clubhead to ball. To be able to do that with a long shaft is impressive. 

 

In 2012 the width of a competition grid was 70 yards. 

 

There are some trackman numbers on the forum here. I pulled up Dustin Johnson's. Over 16 shots his max dispersion as 44 yards left and 42 yards right. He can spray it some 86 yards.  Dustin Johnson is doing that with a 3-4" shorter golf shaft, and about 40 yards less carry. 

post #31 of 57
I see some confusion with club length and what is and is not legal. USGA measures club length when the club is at address, roughly a 60* angle. USGA max length at this lie is 48". LDA measures club length with the shaft vertical, i.e. the head on the ground and the shaft straight up. Using this method the LDA max club length is 50". I'm pretty sure a 50" LDA driver would be equal to a 48.5" USGA measured driver. When I had my long drive clubs put together I had them cut to USGA 48" just to cover both methods. One shaft I will probably cut down so that its total USGA length is 46" just to have more control and better contact.

I think today's top long drivers are being seriously underestimated. They are in the weight room and at the range everyday with only one goal in mind; get faster. They are incredible ball strikers. Even at 150mph club speed a ball won't go that far if mishit badly. 400yds is the new 300.

Lastly, tour pros are great ball strikers because they swing so conservatively with standard length clubs. I seriously doubt their ball striking would remain unchanged with a 3" longer club and swinging as fast as they can. If it didn't, why don't they swing faster all the time?
post #32 of 57
Quote:
Originally Posted by billchao View Post
 

To be fair, long drive is not golf. The discipline requires them to hit a golf ball really far, not get it in the hole in as little strokes as possible. For anyone who competes in long drive professionally, practicing a bunch of skills that are absolutely essential to playing good golf would kind of be a waste of time.

 

I disagree with you. You need some pretty good technique to swing a club 150mph. There are a number of reasons why they seem to spray it all over the place, and it's not because they have inferior technique (because you can't hit a ball 350yd with bad technique). Also, 48" max shaft length.

 

Again, you can't hit a ball that far without good contact. I think you're seriously overestimating the effect of equipment. Besides, shorter drivers are easier to control, which means they're easier to consistently hit on the sweet spot. 

 

http://www.golf.com/tour-and-news/long-drive-champion-blasts-it-past-pga-tours-longest-hitters

 

It's a 47" driver, 6.5°, which is significantly harder to hit well than the average driver.

 

I hope you're not insinuating that their drives are "juiced."

 

 

bill, I am going to point out a technicality to you. I asked what would happen if they used the same equipment. Your link does not speak to whether or not they used the same equipment. The link states that they competed in a long drive championship and that Sadlowski "found the fairway". That is fairly vague. Does that mean the 18th fairway? Or does it mean the driving range fairway? The article does not specify.

 

Also, Sadlowski hit it 407 yards. We already know that tour pros on occassion hit the ball nearly this far (and on rare occasions farther) with 45 inch drivers. Sadlowski may have used a 48 inch driver with 8 degree loft, 4 inch tees and ball that is not made to do anything but be hit by a driver while the tour guys hit 45 inch drivers, 10 degree loft, regular tees and Pro v1's. Without stating the parameters of the event we can't rule out that Sadlowski had a significant equipment advantage.

 

I do agree with you about swing speed. 150mph is 150mph and in theory it would produce farther shots than 125mph. But keep in mind that my original premise is that they use the same equipment, the exact same equipment, and hit the ball into a fairway playing normal golf. I don't believe the way that article is written that we can know this is what happened. 


Edited by 9iron - 7/25/14 at 8:15am
post #33 of 57
Quote:
Originally Posted by 9iron View Post

 

This DOES look elevated, though, and this is what I was referring to. Las Vegas Motor Speedway. Go to the 40 second mark, or the 1:20 mark opr the 1:55 mark. Clearly appears elevated to me. He is way up in the stands hitting that ball at 1:55 mark. 

 

http://www.golfchannel.com/media/highlights-burke-wins-remax-long-drive-championship/

 

And I did not say they used wind machines. I said they did everything but that, and the elevation shown here which I believe I have proved they do use is an example that they do basically create distance where it would not exist in the normal game of golf.

 

I thought you meant that all long distance drivings are rigged somehow. This was a final between couple of guys, to create a spectacle. 99.999% of LD competitions are done on flat ranges.

 

I have heard that PGA likes fairways hard to make drives longer, why is that?

post #34 of 57
Quote:
Originally Posted by luu5 View Post
 

 

I thought you meant that all long distance drivings are rigged somehow. This was a final between couple of guys, to create a spectacle. 99.999% of LD competitions are done on flat ranges.

 

I have heard that PGA likes fairways hard to make drives longer, why is that?

 

 

No, no, never meant they are all done from elevated tee areas. I saw the Remax a couple of times and I understand how they do it. They have local qualifiers and the like, which are all done at driving ranges that you or I could end up at. I just noticed that the finals were held at night from an elevated tee area, which turned it into a bit of a spectacle or gimmick of sorts, hence the comment. 

 

I think we can all agree that anyone, tour player or LDA player, will hit farther but with greater misses using a longer driver vs. what they would achieve using a shorter driver. The converse would also be true. Both sets of players will be shorter with closer misses using shorter drivers. My original premise if anyone wants to re visit it speaks to what would happen in a true golf setting. We know that tour players hit 300+ while hitting a lot of fairways using drivers that are, on average, about 45 inches. I have no doubt that an LDA champion can hit it 300+ yards, but I question whether he could hit many fairways. Those guys are not used to trying to hit such small landing areas, and since I have seen two of them try to do it and fail miserably at it on the Golf Channel I am skeptical that today's guys would do much better. 

post #35 of 57
Quote:
Originally Posted by 9iron View Post
 

 

 

bill, I am going to point out a technicality to you. I asked what would happen if they used the same equipment. Your link does not speak to whether or not they used the same equipment. The link states that they competed in a long drive championship and that Sadlowski "found the fairway". That is fairly vague. Does that mean the 18th fairway? Or does it mean the driving range fairway? The article does not specify.

 

Also, Sadlowski hit it 407 yards. We already know that tour pros on occassion hit the ball nearly this far (and on rare occasions farther) with 45 inch drivers. Sadlowski may have used a 48 inch driver with 8 degree loft, 4 inch tees and ball that is not made to do anything but be hit by a driver while the tour guys hit 45 inch drivers, 10 degree loft, regular tees and Pro v1's. Without stating the parameters of the event we can't rule out that Sadlowski had a significant equipment advantage.

 

I do agree with you about swing speed. 150mph is 150mph and in theory it would produce farther shots than 125mph. But keep in mind that my original premise is that they use the same equipment, the exact same equipment, and hit the ball into a fairway playing normal golf. I don't believe the way that article is written that we can know this is what happened. 

You can watch that actual "competition" with Sadlowski and the PGA pros. He was using a "normal" driver during those drives and he was hitting a normal fairway on the course. LDA competitors are more accurate than what you see on the television because those are all out swings. Are these guys as good overall as PGA pros? No, if they were they'd be playing on the tour and not doing long drive competitions. I think it's silly to try to say that they'd have trouble out driving PGA pro's with the same equipment though. 

post #36 of 57
Quote:
Originally Posted by saevel25 View Post

Absolutely. Swing speed is very much related to handicap. Given there are other aspects, but still, to hit the ball far you must have a technically sound swing. I agree, I think a lot of their mishits come from the fact they are swinging at 100%, they use a very long golf club. Heck if you have 5 chances to for one ball to win you the Long Drive Championship, why not let it rip. 



Probably not as much as you think. I would say if a Long Drive player tons down the swing, and uses a 44-45" shaft then they would increase their accuracy a lot. Ball speed is still king when it comes to long distance. If ball speed = Club Head speed x Smash Factor (Contact), then they still have to be VERY good at putting clubhead to ball. To be able to do that with a long shaft is impressive. 

In 2012 the width of a competition grid was 70 yards. 

There are some trackman numbers on the forum here. I pulled up Dustin Johnson's. Over 16 shots his max dispersion as 44 yards left and 42 yards right. He can spray it some 86 yards.  Dustin Johnson is doing that with a 3-4" shorter golf shaft, and about 40 yards less carry. 

My point still stands though even if you believe the difference isn't that big... If the dispersion for Dustin using a 45 inch driver is 86 yards then I think the dispersion for the Lin drive guys using a 45 inch driver would be at least 140 or so.. It is all relative in my opinion.. I can say with certainty te PGA guys make better contact on a more consistent basis, and I don't believe oposite is true!
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