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One And Done! PGA Announces Long Drive Competition at last major at Valhalla - Page 3

post #37 of 57
Quote:
Originally Posted by Abu3baid View Post


My point still stands though even if you believe the difference isn't that big... If the dispersion for Dustin using a 45 inch driver is 86 yards then I think the dispersion for the Lin drive guys using a 45 inch driver would be at least 140 or so.. It is all relative in my opinion.. I can say with certainty te PGA guys make better contact on a more consistent basis, and I don't believe oposite is true!

 

 

Why? I mean, if Long Drive can hit lets say 3 out of 5, 60% of their drives inside 70 yards, then they would probably hit more with a shorter driver. The shorter the club, generally more accurate they are. I don't get how you can say they get less accurate taking off 2-3 inches on a driver shaft?

post #38 of 57
Quote:
Originally Posted by Abu3baid View Post


My point still stands though even if you believe the difference isn't that big... If the dispersion for Dustin using a 45 inch driver is 86 yards then I think the dispersion for the Lin drive guys using a 45 inch driver would be at least 140 or so.. It is all relative in my opinion.. I can say with certainty te PGA guys make better contact on a more consistent basis, and I don't believe oposite is true!

I don't think that's accurate, if Dustin was trying to hit the ball with a max swing all the time his dispersion would be much greater than what it is now and if the long drive guy dialed his swing back like the pros do for accuracy their dispersion would be less. It's all about how aggressive the swing is. Given equal effort swings *both at 100% or both at 80%* I'd say they are pretty much the same when it comes to accuracy but the long drive guy will just have more distance. Again, that's not to say that they are near good enough to beat a pro in any other aspect of golf though.

post #39 of 57
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeremie Boop View Post
 

You can watch that actual "competition" with Sadlowski and the PGA pros. He was using a "normal" driver during those drives and he was hitting a normal fairway on the course. LDA competitors are more accurate than what you see on the television because those are all out swings. Are these guys as good overall as PGA pros? No, if they were they'd be playing on the tour and not doing long drive competitions. I think it's silly to try to say that they'd have trouble out driving PGA pro's with the same equipment though. 

 

 

I found the Bubba portion of the contest, but the video ends there. Bubba had a lot of respect for how far Jamie hits it, that is for sure. I also found a video where Sadlowski hits a 39 inch driver 330 yards. That is pretty crazy. LOL.

post #40 of 57
Quote:
Originally Posted by saevel25 View Post


Why? I mean, if Long Drive can hit lets say 3 out of 5, 60% of their drives inside 70 yards, then they would probably hit more with a shorter driver. The shorter the club, generally more accurate they are. I don't get how you can say they get less accurate taking off 2-3 inches on a driver shaft?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeremie Boop View Post

I don't think that's accurate, if Dustin was trying to hit the ball with a max swing all the time his dispersion would be much greater than what it is now and if the long drive guy dialed his swing back like the pros do for accuracy their dispersion would be less. It's all about how aggressive the swing is. Given equal effort swings *both at 100% or both at 80%* I'd say they are pretty much the same when it comes to accuracy but the long drive guy will just have more distance. Again, that's not to say that they are near good enough to beat a pro in any other aspect of golf though.

What is the average FIR% on tour? Do you really think that the LD guy is going to come in and have a better FIR% on average?

Also Dustin TM numbers I'm sure aren't with him dialing it back at all..

Also, I will look into the 60% in play from the LD guys, can you tell me where you got this stat from as I can't find it.. I am more inclined to say that they get 1 or 2 in play out of 6.. I've even seen people not get any in play and get disqualified!

You guys are also comparing the best in the LD against the average tour pro.. If you compare the average LD against the average tour pro would we even be having this conversation?
post #41 of 57
Quote:
Originally Posted by Abu3baid View Post



What is the average FIR% on tour? Do you really think that the LD guy is going to come in and have a better FIR% on average?

Also Dustin TM numbers I'm sure aren't with him dialing it back at all..

Also, I will look into the 60% in play from the LD guys, can you tell me where you got this stat from as I can't find it.. I am more inclined to say that they get 1 or 2 in play out of 6.. I've even seen people not get any in play and get disqualified!

You guys are also comparing the best in the LD against the average tour pro.. If you compare the average LD against the average tour pro would we even be having this conversation?

I'm not saying they'd be better at hitting FIR, but they would definitely be at least average for a tour pro but with longer drives. I really don't see why you have a hard time realizing this. Just about all these guys do is work on hitting a driver, you kind of have to expect them to be able to hit it well. With them hitting such low lofts on their competition drivers of course their offline shots are going further offline, give them another 6* of loft and they'll be hitting that grid much more regularly. The problem with that is those competitions put the premium on distance and the distance lost would lose them their competition. I also didn't realize that Dustin Johnson and Bubba Watson were "average tour pros"....

post #42 of 57
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeremie Boop View Post

I'm not saying they'd be better at hitting FIR, but they would definitely be at least average for a tour pro but with longer drives. I really don't see why you have a hard time realizing this. Just about all these guys do is work on hitting a driver, you kind of have to expect them to be able to hit it well. With them hitting such low lofts on their competition drivers of course their offline shots are going further offline, give them another 6* of loft and they'll be hitting that grid much more regularly. I also didn't realize that Dustin Johnson and Bubba Watson were "average tour pros"....

Come on JB what I'm saying is pretty clear.. And I'm not talking about bubba.. The average tour FIR is probably around 60% which includes the best and worst tour pros.. The average of the LD guys you believe would be around that of the tour pros is interesting!

The original statement was simple... I believe that your pros make better contact and have a more technically sound swing.. I made a blanket statement and I didn't say if they are 90% better or only 10% better.. I only see 3 options here if you want to contest my statement.. You either say that you agree the pros have better technique and make better contact or say that the LD has better or you believe they are exactly the same.. Then once your stance is clear we can discuss everything else!
post #43 of 57
Quote:
Originally Posted by 9iron View Post


bill, I am going to point out a technicality to you. I asked what would happen if they used the same equipment. Your link does not speak to whether or not they used the same equipment. The link states that they competed in a long drive championship and that Sadlowski "found the fairway". That is fairly vague. Does that mean the 18th fairway? Or does it mean the driving range fairway? The article does not specify.

Also, Sadlowski hit it 407 yards. We already know that tour pros on occassion hit the ball nearly this far (and on rare occasions farther) with 45 inch drivers. Sadlowski may have used a 48 inch driver with 8 degree loft, 4 inch tees and ball that is not made to do anything but be hit by a driver while the tour guys hit 45 inch drivers, 10 degree loft, regular tees and Pro v1's. Without stating the parameters of the event we can't rule out that Sadlowski had a significant equipment advantage.

I do agree with you about swing speed. 150mph is 150mph and in theory it would produce farther shots than 125mph. But keep in mind that my original premise is that they use the same equipment, the exact same equipment, and hit the ball into a fairway playing normal golf. I don't believe the way that article is written that we can know this is what happened. 
http://72strokes.com/2011/01/sadlowski-smokes-watson/

http://www.weiunderpar.com/post/sadlowski-lets-it-rip-throws-caution-to-the-wind

And here's this, too: http://www.longdrivers.com/remax-wldc/trackman

They had three balls to hit, on a real golf hole. Ball had to be in the fairway to count.

I already told you what club Jamie used. Bubba uses a 44.5", 8.5 degree driver. I can't attest to the ball they used, but LDA competitions have to use conforming equipment. Again, I think you are overestimating the effect of the equipment.

@Abu3baid, I think you are either overestimating the ability of a PGA Tour player, or underestimating the ability of a professional LDA player. Either way, I don't think you're giving them enough credit. The long drive guys are the best in the world at driving the ball.
post #44 of 57
Quote:
Originally Posted by Abu3baid View Post


Come on JB what I'm saying is pretty clear.. And I'm not talking about bubba.. The average tour FIR is probably around 60% which includes the best and worst tour pros.. The average of the LD guys you believe would be around that of the tour pros is interesting!

The original statement was simple... I believe that your pros make better contact and have a more technically sound swing.. I made a blanket statement and I didn't say if they are 90% better or only 10% better.. I only see 3 options here if you want to contest my statement.. You either say that you agree the pros have better technique and make better contact or say that the LD has better or you believe they are exactly the same.. Then once your stance is clear we can discuss everything else!

I'd say they are pretty much the same in ball striking, if with no other club than the driver. The PGA pros are overall better without a doubt though.

post #45 of 57
Quote:
Originally Posted by billchao View Post

@Abu3baid, I think you are either overestimating the ability of a PGA Tour player, or underestimating the ability of a professional LDA player. Either way, I don't think you're giving them enough credit. The long drive guys are the best in the world at driving the ball.

 

Exactly. To hit the ball long they have to optimize every aspect of the driver swing. Hitting up on the ball, making GOOD contact. That can not be done with out a good swing. 

post #46 of 57

bill, I am pretty close to being convinced that the LD guys just hit it farther. This noted, even in one of your links there is the following text regarding that three ball competition at Kapalua: 

 

“I’m going with the big boy,” said Sadlowski, who was carrying four drivers in his bag this week. He adjusts depending on the conditions. All the drivers are Adams Speedline 4064LS. The “big boy” has a 6.5 degree loft and the shaft is about 47 inches. - See more at: http://www.weiunderpar.com/post/sadlowski-lets-it-rip-throws-caution-to-the-wind#sthash.4F1V7C9H.dpuf

 

From the text itself we can see that Sadlowski talks about using a 47 inch driver, so to me that is almost assuredly a longer driver than the one used by Watson. Now, it may not have mattered one way or the other as Sadlowski may be able to outhit them using any same club comparison.

 

Final thought. IMHO, and this is a variation of my original thesis, if you put a typical LD guy out there (perhaps not Sadlowski if he is truly a scratch golfer, but say one of these LD guys whose true handicap might be something like a 15) on a tour course with a guy like DJ, or Watson, or Garrigus or McIlroy or Mickelson ...etc. and you have 14 holes that are par 4 or par 5, how many times will the LD guy be the long ball in the fairway? I believe it will be less than half the time simply because the LD guy won't hit many tour size fairways, even if he dials down to 45 inch clubs. The pro won't hit them all either, but he'll hit 7, 8 or 9 out of 14 while the LD guy hits maybe half that many. The LD guy might be the longest opn each fairway he hits, but I am guessing that if he hits a 45 inch club then at least once the pro will be longer even if the LD guy hits the fairway. I concede in advance that this is a slightly different thesis that takes accuracy into account and not just pure distance. And, as noted above, I am pretty close to just waving the white flag on the distance question as a stand alone issue. I'd still love to see them all hit the same club and see what happens. 

post #47 of 57
Quote:
Originally Posted by 9iron View Post
 

Final thought. IMHO, and this is a variation of my original thesis, if you put a typical LD guy out there (perhaps not Sadlowski if he is truly a scratch golfer, but say one of these LD guys whose true handicap might be something like a 15) on a tour course with a guy like DJ, or Watson, or Garrigus or McIlroy or Mickelson ...etc. and you have 14 holes that are par 4 or par 5, how many times will the LD guy be the long ball in the fairway? I believe it will be less than half the time simply because the LD guy won't hit many tour size fairways, even if he dials down to 45 inch clubs. The pro won't hit them all either, but he'll hit 7, 8 or 9 out of 14 while the LD guy hits maybe half that many. The LD guy might be the longest opn each fairway he hits, but I am guessing that if he hits a 45 inch club then at least once the pro will be longer even if the LD guy hits the fairway. I concede in advance that this is a slightly different thesis that takes accuracy into account and not just pure distance. And, as noted above, I am pretty close to just waving the white flag on the distance question as a stand alone issue. I'd still love to see them all hit the same club and see what happens. 

 

Until this is really done, it is all just "I believe"s, "might"s, "guessing"s.

post #48 of 57

Apples to oranges comparisons. A pro's game is centered around accuracy, LDA is all about distance. Why would any LDA guys care how many fairways they would hit? I guess if they wanted they could just hit a 250yd 5iron down the middle.. I got knocked out in rd 4 of my regional qualifier this past weekend. I think I hit the grid 4/6 balls in my last set, but none of them were as long as the the one straight one the guy who advanced hit. Should I feel good that I hit the ball straighter in a losing effort at a long drive contest???:roll:

post #49 of 57
Long drive competition balls and tees are also golf compliant equipment as required and stipulated by usga. According to best of my knowledge...
post #50 of 57
Depends on how much distance you got beaten by Lol I.e. was it a close call defeat or a crushing one?
post #51 of 57

I don't know the distances as they didn't consistently announce them. The format was 3 guys hit at a time, longest guy moves on and the two losers went to loser bracket or home. I won my first rd but they didn't say my distance, just that I was moving on to winner's bracket. Conditions were terrible for this time of year. Mid 60's, sloppy wet and raining, and a 25-30mph sustained head wind. A guy that qualified at a local with a 381 hit one 297 that day and it was smoked. There were guys capable of 400+ yd drives there, but 305 is what won the shootout for the money.

post #52 of 57
Quote:
Originally Posted by luu5 View Post

As I said:


I agree about "amped" though. But I guess in most sports (in USA especially) some sort of over testosterone/adrenaline thing is norm.

As long drivers themselves say:
When you said "demonstration," to me that implied a non-competitive event (i.e. not the world long drive championship) like the ones Jamie Sadlowski does where he drives a putter 300 yards and all that fun stuff
post #53 of 57
Yea it will definitely be intresting to see how jamie sadlowski contends at remax this year. He'ssponsored by callaway this time and theyve been figuring out specs for a new driver for him. He said in an interview that he's been impressed by the durability of some of callaway's long drive model clubs. He also claimed to have gained some yardage with the club change but we shall see...

Long drivers are simply breaking their driver heads in those competitions so there's a bit of uncertainty along the match whether the club is ok or not. So they say, so says the sports commentator art sellinger who is a former long driver competitor.
post #54 of 57
Getting back on topic, I think the long drive challenge at Valhalla is a really cool idea. I wonder how much different some of the swings will look from a stock in round swing. Hope they show some of it.
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