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Breaking 85 - Page 2

post #19 of 52

No doubles, make 6 pars and 12 bogeys and that's it. And if you do make a double just remind yourself that one extra par will clean that up anyways so it's not like you have to make birdies to get back to even par. Probably the best way to go about is play every 3 holes no worse than 2 over, if you make par on the first hole you took a lot of pressure off yourself and if you get the first 2 pars then your ahead of the game.

post #20 of 52
When I break 85, I'm basically not trying to force anything, and I don't get greedy. No matter what happens, I focus on getting the ball from where it is to as close to the hole as I can safely. Hopefully I can take my own advice here the next time I go out.
post #21 of 52
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Harp stein View Post
 

I'm on the cusp of breaking 90, so take this for what's it's worth but I don't think you can score low 80's without consistently striking drives and irons. If you can consistently hit any club at least 75% of it's expected distance and within a decent degree of straight then you just have to make solid chips from nGIR and avoid really dumb strategies. But if you're chunking stuff 50 yds a couple times, blading a couple more those add up quickly. And especially so if you can't get up and down in 2, which doesn't seem like a reliable expectation to me when you're shooting mid-80s.

 

I was +5 yesterday going into 9, hit my drive left into tall grass and rather than taking my medicine like someone on here said earlier, I hacked out in 4. Then I was pissed and dumped a 5W into the lake for a 10. So a 42 (bogey) turned into a 45 in just 1 freaking hole because of stupidity!

 

This seems right.

post #22 of 52

Play shorter tees if you really want a better number on the card. Also the few times Ive done it I had no penalty strokes or no piss poor shots (fats, tops bladed wedges shitty lag putts ect...)  Whats funny is the 2 best rounds of my life (83) I didn't even realize I was playing that good I was just cruising along.  If you have a consistent swing (which I know you do Lihu) you have to execute every shot and eliminate the BAD misses. You know the ones Im talking about.

post #23 of 52
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jakester23 View Post
 

Play shorter tees if you really want a better number on the card. Also the few times Ive done it I had no penalty strokes or no piss poor shots (fats, tops bladed wedges shitty lag putts ect...)  Whats funny is the 2 best rounds of my life (83) I didn't even realize I was playing that good I was just cruising along.  If you have a consistent swing (which I know you do Lihu) you have to execute every shot and eliminate the BAD misses. You know the ones Im talking about.

 

This happened today with the 15 handicap I was playing today. He drove the ball as far as me some of the time, and he played from the white tees. I found out later that he was playing for stakes against the 4.8 handicap who gave him 11 strokes and allowed him to play the white tees. He still had to pay up. 4.8 handicaps are just such consistent players. I was about 8 strokes over his score playing from the same tees. It was really hard to keep up pace with him.

 

I kind of let out a sigh of relief when I asked him his handicap after the round and he said 4.8, because I though I was playing so badly. Turned out to be only 1 stroke over my best score there anyway. :-X

post #24 of 52
The first time I broke 90, it was an 85. My second year golfing in 1976 at Jackson Valley GC in N Warren Pa.

The key to steady golf is making consistent shots. Don't have to be great shots (that hopefully will come). When you envision a shot, what do you have to do to make it happen? Wailing away probably isn't it. Getting your tee ball in play is big. Doesn't necessarily mean 275 down the middle, but avoid the lakes, trees, bunkers. What's the best angle into the green? Find out where you can miss a shot. If there is too much risk, back off a bit.

Learn how to chip really well. It doesn't take great athleticism to get up and down around the green. It takes technique and practice.
post #25 of 52
I guess the right answer is track FIRs, GIRs and putts and the answer will show itself. I use golflogix which let's me do it for free and pretty quickly. I would still guess short game is where most people will find they can save strokes.

Not perfect math but say you play 18 and have 36 putts. Not great, not horrible. Now say you hit 6 girs. Around that handicap level I would guess is decent amount. That makes a minimum of 48 chips/pitches/putts if you put every chip/pitch/bunker shot on the green. If you shoot an 88 that leaves 40 drives/irons. 14 drives, 18 irons, 4 extra par 5 shots is 36 that leaves 4 shots to shave. Unless you are reaching par 5s in 2 a lot or short game is really good there is always room to shave strokes from the short game.

Honestly I shoot 78 to 84 range usually and I still look at my short game to shave strokes.
post #26 of 52

For me, this was the formula to break 85:

 

(1) Get it in play off the tee the first time. This doesn't necessarily mean that I hit fairways, but if I can avoid re-teeing for my third stroke, I'll break 85. 

(2) Limit blow up holes to double bogeys. Really, if I get in trouble, I'm playing for bogey. And don't get down on yourself - you can have a blow up hole and still break 85.

(3) Around the green, ensure that you give yourself a putt for par. Assuming that you'll generally be around the green if you don't get a GIR, the important thing is to make a bogey at worst. This means no stubbed chips, no chipping over the green, and no leaving the ball in the sand. 

 

For me, that's what worked for breaking 85. Now, breaking 80, I've got to do all that, plus hit half of the greens in regulation, and then get up and down for par probably around 1/3 of the time.

post #27 of 52

Been playing with some friends of my brother on a weekly basis recently, and they asked me the same thing.  Told them some observations.

 

Chip with something other than a PW/SW.

Quit taking soooo many practice swings.  1 max, 2 on "feel" shots

Quit lining up putts from both directions.

Play more than you practice. 

 

The best piece of advice though that got me over the hump.  Act like you care.  Tuck in your shirt.  Play in clean shoes.  Assign a place in your bag for each club, and keep it.  (Big on this one).  Repair pitch marks and "sand" divots.  Do this and don't keep score for a while.  Just enjoy it.  When you feel you are ready, keep score.  In other words, don't do what you have always done, and expect to get magically better.

post #28 of 52
Quote:
Originally Posted by MexBurtReynolds View Post

Been playing with some friends of my brother on a weekly basis recently, and they asked me the same thing.  Told them some observations.

Chip with something other than a PW/SW.
Quit taking soooo many practice swings.  1 max, 2 on "feel" shots
Quit lining up putts from both directions.
Play more than you practice. 

The best piece of advice though that got me over the hump.  Act like you care.  Tuck in your shirt.  Play in clean shoes.  Assign a place in your bag for each club, and keep it.  (Big on this one).  Repair pitch marks and "sand" divots.  Do this and don't keep score for a while.  Just enjoy it.  When you feel you are ready, keep score.  In other words, don't do what you have always done, and expect to get magically better.

Sorry but most of that has nothing to do with shooting better. I don't tuck in my shirt. My clubs are all over my bag. My shoes are dirty. I chip with a PW to control roll out better. I read putts from behind the hole better than behind the ball. I almost never golf without a range session prior and sometimes after. And I hit the range a lot. I don't take full practice swings ever but I take little half swings. About the only thing I do on your list is take bunkers and fix ball marks and that's just common courtesy. All that and 6300 or shorter if I shoot 85 or higher I will want to break my clubs. Maybe your list is to be a scratch golfer?a2_wink.gif
post #29 of 52
Quote:
Originally Posted by MexBurtReynolds View Post

Been playing with some friends of my brother on a weekly basis recently, and they asked me the same thing.  Told them some observations.

Chip with something other than a PW/SW.
Quit taking soooo many practice swings.  1 max, 2 on "feel" shots
Quit lining up putts from both directions.
Play more than you practice. 

The best piece of advice though that got me over the hump.  Act like you care.  Tuck in your shirt.  Play in clean shoes.  Assign a place in your bag for each club, and keep it.  (Big on this one).  Repair pitch marks and "sand" divots.  Do this and don't keep score for a while.  Just enjoy it.  When you feel you are ready, keep score.  In other words, don't do what you have always done, and expect to get magically better.

Can't remember the last time I tucked in my shirt. I play in a pair crocs. a1_smile.gif
post #30 of 52

You'll get near 80 if you hit some greens and keep the big numbers off the card. Hit solid irons and make pars, don't worry about getting birdies. When I break 85, it's because I hit around 7 GIR or fringes and didn't really make worse than bogey. I made a few up and downs as well, but didn't seem to make more long putts than usual or anything. Pretty boring golf for the most part. It's more fun however when I'm driving it and hitting my wedges well.

post #31 of 52

Specifics?  This is what worked for me:

 

1. Pick one wedge, and use it for ALL your shots near the green (unless you really, really need to use something else).

-I used to mix and match a couple of 52, 54, 56, 58, and 60 wedges into the bag and I'd hit shots with anything from a 58 to a 5-iron. ...and I sucked at all of them.  Then I decided to just pick one wedge and really try to learn it. I picked the 52 (and I use the 58 from sand).  For anything 100yds or less, I use the 52, and once I picked just one club and stuck with it, my 'feel' shots started to improve, I gained confidence and (some) consistency, and my short game got better. (Not great, but better.)

 

2. Practice lag putts and 4-footers.

-I still suck at putting, and I still miss a putt or two per round from 4-5 feet, but I've gotten a bit better at lagging to that distance. (Some of that was also getting fit for an Edel...)

 

3. Set goals and reward yourself for making them.

--When I first started, I bought a TopFlite set, but I wanted nicer stuff.  I promised myself that when I broke 100, I would upgrade the irons, and I did. When I broke 95, I got a new driver.  Then I found some Hogan Apex Plus irons for $85. I bought them, but didn't let myself put them in the bag until I broke 90. When I broke 80 from the tips for the first time, I promised myself an Edel putter if I could do it again. ...and so on.

 

4. Vary the tees that you play.

-Similar to point #3, and I still do this.  If I play over bogey golf, then in my next round, I have to play up a set of tees. If I play under bogey golf, then I move back a set of tees.  ...I like playing from the black tees (the tips), so it helps put a bit of pressure on me to keep my concentration when I'm finishing out a ho-hum round.  If you're trying to break 85, you could set that # at '95' or something like that. (I kind of like pressure... so this might backfire if you don't.)

 

These are things that won't give you instant improvement in scoring, but my guess is that if you stick with them, you'd see a decent amount of improvement by the end of a season.  It has certainly worked well for me.

post #32 of 52

I think besides the obvious getting better and more consistent at everything knowing your game and course management comes into play....more then people sometimes realize, something that I feel like I'm just starting to grasp.  I will try to give some specific examples...

 

  Where my game is at right now, I am hitting my short irons and wedges pretty consistently, mid irons and up tend to drift right on miss hits(rarely anything left, eliminated the left side.). 

 

  One of the par 3's I play a lot.  Its around 145 severly uphill.  The green is cut into a hill that is very steep.  Left side is steeper then the right side, collection area with a tree down at the  bottom on the left.  The green itself is a two tier that slopes back to front.  Just off the  back of the green is the steep hill with tall native grass.  Anything that missed the green sucks....But long is completely dead, basically impossible to hold the green trying to chop out of the rough from the back.  Most likely your gonna funnel all the way down the hill and have 60ft straight up back to the green.  Left is pretty dead too, steepest part of the hill to hit up and a tree often times block your shot for a high floater....The miss, and the only real miss is short/short right.  Still not a picnic, but short or short right leaves yourself a decent chance of making less then double....I say that because on this hole I worry about not making worse then bogie more then trying to make par or birdie....

  I make darn sure to club myself to not go long, and I play to my miss, so for me I am at middle of green, if I hit it really well it will stay on that line, if I miss it, it will go right and probably short, which I will make bogie from most of the time, but might squeeze out a par......

  Another hole is a short par 4, about 285.  Bunkers short left and short right of the green.  The green slopes severely back to front, its fairly deep but very narrow side to side. And once again long is dead (a big theme on front nine of this course with back to front greens).  Fairway is wide open to about 230 mark, then it tightens up a lot to the green.  Not a lot of room left, right is pretty open till about front of green high, then there is trouble... I used to play driver here sometimes, and 5 iron sometimes...Now I never hit driver....Very little trouble at this hole until you get close, and the driver bring that trouble into play for me.  5 iron is ok, but there is no reason to lay up that far back, especially with my miss being right.  The green is narrow side to side and not easy to hit from 150.  But now I hit hybrid off the tee.  I usually have a 40-60yd shot.  I pay no attention to where the pin is on this hole.  I don't like to putt down the hill, but I will take that over coming up short and in the bunkers so I always hit it hard enough to make sure I get up on the middle of the green.  This is where I see a lot of people making the big mistake, they like to tuck the pin in the front behind the bunkers, and people get greedy and try to drop it in close, and often times come up short...into the bunkers. 

 

The two longest par 4's on this course I hit hybrid or even 3/4 iron off the tee.  The reason being is that there is trouble/OB pretty tight on both sides of the fairway, especially the right side.  and it is the two narrowest landing area's on the course for me.  Driver brings too much trouble into play....Holes like this is where I used to make a lot of double or worse scores.  On the first ones its dogleg left down hill.  Hybrid or long iron off the tee.  I end up with along ways to go to reach the green, often times in the 180-200yd range.  There is a bunker on the left side of the green.  But other then that its unprotected, long is ok, short is fine, there is some trouble right but its a big miss right.  The green itself is pretty flat, pretty easy putting, pretty easy chipping and pitching around it.  For me I aim at the bunker left of the green.  This is going to take the trouble far right out of play.  I come up short and or miss somewhere on this green, not a big GIR hole for me.  But its easy around the green.  Up and downs are fairly common and your going to rarely if ever 3 putt this green.  So its usually bogie at worst, and a sprinkling of bogies is fine....But hitting driver off the tee and going OB....now triple just came into play....

 

  I have also found that I am pretty conservative around the greens chipping and pitching as well.  There are many times if I miss the green and don't miss in a great spot that I might chip or pitch out 10-20 away from the flag...taking a bunker out of play that I would have had to carry, or taking a mound out of play, or taking ridge out of play on the green etc....I will take 20ft away for par and probably making bogie over bringing double into play...

 

Taking the big number out of play makes such a huge difference, and finding a way to get GIR makes making par's a whole lot easier.

 

85 is 13 bogies and five par's....You can make plenty of bogies and still shoot a decent number as long as your not making worse then bogie

post #33 of 52
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jakester23 View Post
 

Play shorter tees if you really want a better number on the card.

Actually this is pretty good advice IMO. For me this was fuel to better scores even when I moved back.

post #34 of 52
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave2512 View Post
 

Actually this is pretty good advice IMO. For me this was fuel to better scores even when I moved back.


I've been thinking of doing this, but the results of an experiment Erik asked us to do a while ago did not seem all that conclusive. Maybe there were too many outliers responding to the thread that the data was skewed? http://thesandtrap.com/t/61875/tst-2012-forward-tees-experiment-results-thread

 

EDIT: Just looked at the results again, it seems like they did improve in most cases. In fact, you showed an improvement of about 7 strokes. Still, the CR and slope ratings might not be correct on these tees.

 

It seems like you gain an extra 10-30 yards on all the holes, and it's like driving the ball that much further.

 

The only issue is that the CR and slope ratings are not as accurate because the pins might be closer while the tee boxes are also setup a little closer. The course might be 2 or more CR points easier, and the slope rating is maybe low by up to 10 or more points due to less obstructions.

 

I have always found that the back tees seem to be more consistent to the CR and the slope ratings, but even with these tees sometimes I still see closer pin placements with moved up tees. So, a tree or other obstruction is no longer in play.

post #35 of 52
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lihu View Post
 


I've been thinking of doing this, but the results of an experiment Erik asked us to do a while ago did not seem all that conclusive. Maybe there were too many outliers responding to the thread that the data was skewed? It seems like you gain an extra 10-30 yards on all the holes, and it's like driving the ball that much further.

 

The only issue is that the CR and slope ratings are not as accurate because the pins might be closer while the tee boxes are also setup a little closer. The course might be 2 or more CR points easier, and the slope rating is maybe low by up to 10 or more points due to less obstructions.

 

I have always found that the back tees seem to be more consistent to the CR and the slope ratings, but even with these tees sometimes I still see closer pin placements with moved up tees. So, a tree or other obstruction is no longer in play.

Forget about CR and slope.  They're not talking about ratings and differentials here.  What they are saying (I think - correct me if I'm wrong, guys) is that it could very well help you over the mental block of the number 85 when you give yourself an "excuse" to shoot it.

 

We all have a comfort zone and it's easy to get out if it in both directions.  If I'm playing super well and am ready to turn in an all time score, I'm very aware of it and it's hard to avoid the thinking that a reversion to the mean before the 18 holes is up is inevitable.

 

If you play shorter tees then you can expect to shoot lower scores, and then get used to shooting lower scores (even if those lower scores provide for higher differentials), and then when you move back you aren't as afraid to get over that hump because you've already done it (at least sort of) several times before.

 

Hope that makes sense.

post #36 of 52
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Golfingdad View Post
 

Forget about CR and slope.  They're not talking about ratings and differentials here.  What they are saying (I think - correct me if I'm wrong, guys) is that it could very well help you over the mental block of the number 85 when you give yourself an "excuse" to shoot it.

 

We all have a comfort zone and it's easy to get out if it in both directions.  If I'm playing super well and am ready to turn in an all time score, I'm very aware of it and it's hard to avoid the thinking that a reversion to the mean before the 18 holes is up is inevitable.

 

If you play shorter tees then you can expect to shoot lower scores, and then get used to shooting lower scores (even if those lower scores provide for higher differentials), and then when you move back you aren't as afraid to get over that hump because you've already done it (at least sort of) several times before.

 

Hope that makes sense.

 

Yes, this makes some sense. I'll give it a try.

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