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Breaking 85 - Page 3

post #37 of 52
Quote:
Originally Posted by Golfingdad View Post
 

Forget about CR and slope.  They're not talking about ratings and differentials here.  What they are saying (I think - correct me if I'm wrong, guys) is that it could very well help you over the mental block of the number 85 when you give yourself an "excuse" to shoot it.

 

We all have a comfort zone and it's easy to get out if it in both directions.  If I'm playing super well and am ready to turn in an all time score, I'm very aware of it and it's hard to avoid the thinking that a reversion to the mean before the 18 holes is up is inevitable.

 

If you play shorter tees then you can expect to shoot lower scores, and then get used to shooting lower scores (even if those lower scores provide for higher differentials), and then when you move back you aren't as afraid to get over that hump because you've already done it (at least sort of) several times before.

 

Hope that makes sense.

 

This didn't work for me the other night, but I can't hit the broad side of a bard these days.

post #38 of 52
Quote:
Originally Posted by Golfingdad View Post
 

Forget about CR and slope.  They're not talking about ratings and differentials here.  What they are saying (I think - correct me if I'm wrong, guys) is that it could very well help you over the mental block of the number 85 when you give yourself an "excuse" to shoot it.

 

We all have a comfort zone and it's easy to get out if it in both directions.  If I'm playing super well and am ready to turn in an all time score, I'm very aware of it and it's hard to avoid the thinking that a reversion to the mean before the 18 holes is up is inevitable.

 

If you play shorter tees then you can expect to shoot lower scores, and then get used to shooting lower scores (even if those lower scores provide for higher differentials), and then when you move back you aren't as afraid to get over that hump because you've already done it (at least sort of) several times before.

 

Hope that makes sense.


Yes this and what it did for me was I saw the course differently. Instead of just hitting the ball as far as I could every time I played the course. When I moved back I had a different strategy than hit and chase ball. Moving up won't fix a swing or anything but the scoring opportunities are different.

post #39 of 52
Quote:
Originally Posted by RandallT View Post

I've backtracked this year to upper 80s golf, and for me the difference is getting off the tee. Last year, I was more consistently hitting fairways and giving myself a shot at GIR/nGIR. This year, I've hardly had much chance to play, but when I have, I've topped too many, sliced too many, hooked too many. Wasted shots off the tee that occasionally compound into blow-up holes.

I have kept terrible stats this year compared to last year, but that's how I feel I'm playing- I think my feel is real :).

Once I can get my improved swing from the lessons working on the course, I'm thinking low 80s will be my new norm. Damn, just jinked it.

 

I too had the goal of breaking 85 as my best score previously was an 87. It felt like I blew past my goal when I shot an 80 a few weeks ago. It really does make a difference when you play your second shot from in or near the fairway instead of in the trees or your third from the tee. I focused on putting the ball in play by choking down a bit on the driver to feel more in control from the start of the round. By the 5th hole I had hit every fairway and I started to get the sense that I couldn't miss if I tried.

 

I also stopped worrying about what I "could shoot" (i.e. if I get a few more pars and a bogey I can break 90) during the round and quit adding up my front 9 score at the turn. I did this a dozen or so rounds before I shot 80, so it takes a little time to change the way you think. I wrote my score down for the hole and didn't think about it again after that. These kinds of thoughts really distracted me from the goal of hitting the next shot as best as I can.  I would like to add that my putting was not that great on this day either because I missed a few very makeable birdie putts, but two putt pars were happening more than ever. One other minor thing I changed was my strategy on the par 5s. I played them all as three shot holes if I couldn't get it there with anything less than a 4 iron. This eliminated that 3 wood slice that costs three strokes on that one par 5 per round. The result: 3 pars and a birdie. Good luck and don't put to much pressure on yourself to break 85 again immediately after you do it the first time.

post #40 of 52
Thread Starter 
Tried a "short" round, not officially scored. At a shorter course. Made a lot more GIR, about the same number of fairways. Missed by a few feet in some cases.

Putting was the main issue here. That didn't get any easier, in fact, I think it was harder. 37 putts still kept my score above the magic number.
post #41 of 52

More GIR can often lead to more putts, more 3 putts anyway. You traded a putt for a chip in some instances. However it should eventually lead to lower scores because a bad putt is still almost always better than a bad chip. But more GIR is better golf regardless. It is fairly easy to make putting improvement compared to full swing improvement. Some of it just the newness of being on different areas of the green further away from the hole than you usually see from that chip that gets you there in the 3 or 4.

 

I played two tees up last light for 7 holes using nothing longer than a 5 iron. My 5 iron distance is significantly shorter than my driver and a good 40 yards shorter than a middling 3 wood and I still played better golf than I would have back. I didn't putt, was just there to mess around and hit a few balls and drink a couple vodka tonics. I hit all 7 GIR and on the shorter par 4's I was birdie putt distance, one was backhand tap in distance.

post #42 of 52
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave2512 View Post

More GIR can often lead to more putts, more 3 putts anyway. You traded a putt for a chip in some instances. However it should eventually lead to lower scores because a bad putt is still almost always better than a bad chip. But more GIR is better golf regardless. It is fairly easy to make putting improvement compared to full swing improvement. Some of it just the newness of being on different areas of the green further away from the hole than you usually see from that chip that gets you there in the 3 or 4.

I played two tees up last light for 7 holes using nothing longer than a 5 iron. My 5 iron distance is significantly shorter than my driver and a good 40 yards shorter than a middling 3 wood and I still played better golf than I would have back. I didn't putt, was just there to mess around and hit a few balls and drink a couple vodka tonics. I hit all 7 GIR and on the shorter par 4's I was birdie putt distance, one was backhand tap in distance.

Just when I thought my putting was improving a4_sad.gif
post #43 of 52
Quote:
Originally Posted by whatwoodtigerdo View Post

I guess the right answer is track FIRs, GIRs and putts and the answer will show itself. I use golflogix which let's me do it for free and pretty quickly. I would still guess short game is where most people will find they can save strokes.

Not perfect math but say you play 18 and have 36 putts. Not great, not horrible. Now say you hit 6 girs. Around that handicap level I would guess is decent amount. That makes a minimum of 48 chips/pitches/putts if you put every chip/pitch/bunker shot on the green. If you shoot an 88 that leaves 40 drives/irons. 14 drives, 18 irons, 4 extra par 5 shots is 36 that leaves 4 shots to shave. Unless you are reaching par 5s in 2 a lot or short game is really good there is always room to shave strokes from the short game.

Honestly I shoot 78 to 84 range usually and I still look at my short game to shave strokes.

 

Driving, and approach shots, are more important skills (the full swing) than the short game.

 

The short game can quickly shave a few strokes, no argument there, but if you're more than a few strokes above breaking some goal, the long game is where it's at.

 

More here: http://lowestscorewins.com/ .

post #44 of 52
If you shoot low 90s pretty consistently chances are you can break 85 with just better golf management.
post #45 of 52
Quote:
Originally Posted by Patch View Post
 

To break 85 for me required extra work on my short game. I found that when I scored in the  85-80 range, putting was a big deal. Breaking 80 consistently required a better long game, as well as a good short game.   

I agree with this. Play "your miss" on approaches so that you have a chance to get up and down.

 

No 3-putts, shanks, duffs, tops. Specifics on how to avoid those?...that's all mental I think. Using a chip and run shot instead of trying to land the ball close and stop it, is another good one.

 

I guess it's all really LSW stuff. Moving the ball forward, aiming at the center of the green, getting as close to the hole as possible.

post #46 of 52

Good thread - I'm regressing and haven't broken 85 in a month or more.    For me, it happens on the good putting days.     Other biggie is limiting the doubles and NO triples.

post #47 of 52

For me, it was hitting solid iron shots to get greens in regulation. My putting is good so if I can hit greens, I can usually make pars with no problem. However, the real key was setting myself up for those solid approach shots... so hitting fairways. When I look at my stats, the biggest indicator of how I score on a given day is how many fairways I hit (Or at least that was the case earlier in the summer - I'm working on it and I'm getting better at hitting greens from the rough. This was the key to my first sub-80 score last week).

post #48 of 52

I think I shot 81 or 82 the first time I broke 90. I played each shot with my next shot in mind, and I was able to execute the first shots most of the time. I played the course as it was presented to me, and I started my plan off the tee. I knew where not to miss it, and I made sure to keep the ball in play. I took 5i off a par 5, and 3h off another one based on where the best landing area was for me. There was a driveable par 4 that my friends always wanted to see me drive, but I was smart that day, so I took a 3h off the tee to give me a pitch shot in (Birdied that sucker). I made a number of mistakes that day, multiple 3-putts and doubles, but I made sure to not let it carry over. 

 

When I made a mistake, I got very focused on making sure the most I took was a bogey. Imagine losing a tee shot, and taking a drop doesn't give you a chance at hitting the green, you are automatically faced with a double bogey reality....or losing a second shot (Ugly stuff)

 

Lately, I feel like I'm just a few putts and a sharper focus away from going really low. Let's hope it comes to fruition. 

post #49 of 52
Quote:
Originally Posted by iacas View Post

Driving, and approach shots, are more important skills (the full swing) than the short game.

The short game can quickly shave a few strokes, no argument there, but if you're more than a few strokes above breaking some goal, the long game is where it's at.

More here: http://lowestscorewins.com/ .

My post was under the assumption someone was shooting scores in the 88 to 90 range and trying to break 85. Of course long ball and approaches are important and that's why I said what I did about tracking stats. You have tracked the stats though so I guess I am inclined to say you are probably right. But only using my perception, and admittedly I have only play with 50 or so golfers, but I can't think of one person I have played with that was a bogey golfer because of tons of drops or bad approaches with a solid short game because usually if they are taking drops or hitting poor shots it's a constant thing and they are shooting much higher than 90.
post #50 of 52
Quote:
Originally Posted by whatwoodtigerdo View Post

My post was under the assumption someone was shooting scores in the 88 to 90 range and trying to break 85. Of course long ball and approaches are important and that's why I said what I did about tracking stats.

 

To be clear (and to paraphrase part of the book)…

 

a) Dropping a few shots is most easily done the fastest via practicing your short game. That's true.

b) Some players already have a "better than their handicap" short game. They will not be able to drop 3-5 strokes, or do so consistently.

c) The long-term method of dropping strokes is more focused on the long game/full swing.

 

So, we likely agree (or disagree) depending on the specifics. Since this thread isn't about one person in particular, both statements are right or wrong depending on the subject.

post #51 of 52
Quote:
Originally Posted by iacas View Post
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by whatwoodtigerdo View Post

My post was under the assumption someone was shooting scores in the 88 to 90 range and trying to break 85. Of course long ball and approaches are important and that's why I said what I did about tracking stats.

 

To be clear (and to paraphrase part of the book)…

 

a) Dropping a few shots is most easily done the fastest via practicing your short game. That's true.

b) Some players already have a "better than their handicap" short game. They will not be able to drop 3-5 strokes, or do so consistently.

c) The long-term method of dropping strokes is more focused on the long game/full swing.

 

So, we likely agree (or disagree) depending on the specifics. Since this thread isn't about one person in particular, both statements are right or wrong depending on the subject.

 

I was against this way of thinking at first (thought the short game was the key to golf), but after so many far better players than myself chimed in ... I started to reconsider.     I'm a believer now - the long game / GIR's are where the most gains can be had.    I shot a 38 last night (way better than my average) - reason being is that my tee shots were all decent, about average; putting wasn't great, about average;  but my approach shots were stellar.     I agree with Iacas - GIR's are the name of the game ...

post #52 of 52
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by inthehole View Post

I was against this way of thinking at first (thought the short game was the key to golf), but after so many far better players than myself chimed in ... I started to reconsider.     I'm a believer now - the long game / GIR's are where the most gains can be had.    I shot a 38 last night (way better than my average) - reason being is that my tee shots were all decent, about average; putting wasn't great, about average;  but my approach shots were stellar.     I agree with Iacas - GIR's are the name of the game ...

Cool, you broke 40. I'm still working hard on that.
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